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> Independence Day?, How will (or would) you vote?
**Paulie**
post 13th Sep 2014, 09:40pm
Post #46






I hope the "NO" vote wins. It's not about financial gain, it's about breaking up
a small country that has fought two world wars together, suffered through the Blitz
and made a mark on the world. My heart is in Scotland, it's also in the British Isles,
GREAT BRITAIN Forever.
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*MD*
post 13th Sep 2014, 10:20pm
Post #47






I am German born and have been married to a Scot for 14 years, am a British Citizen since 2002 and lived in Scotland for the past 8 years. I will vote YES as I think it is an opportunity for our country to become something great. All this scaremongering of the NO campaign is tiresome and I am just fed up with it. Apparently independence is a huge jump into the unknown and uncertain but then so would be a NO vote...Who knows what Westminster has in store for us if we vote NO. Plus, we would be the laughing stock of the world if we pass up this opportunity.

To get to the questions asked:

1. What is the single most important issue?
::: To be ruled by a government that the majority elected IN Scotland.

2. Have you been swayed by one side?
::: Every statement of the NO campaign just reinforces my YES decision

3. Have you been impressed by any politicians?
::: I have been impressed by Alex Salmond

4. Has the media reporting of the referendum been fair?
::: The BBC seems to be very bias in this but in general I think it has been quite fair.

5. Will the result have a long term effect on how we live?
::: I would hope so, for the better.

6. Do you just want it all to be over?
::: Cannot wait to cast my vote. YES all the way!
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taurus
post 13th Sep 2014, 10:45pm
Post #48


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I wouldn`t dream of trying to nominate a yes or no since I left a long time ago,but I do agree wholeheartedly with what Brian Cox said in his interview. London is a whole other country on it`s own,the big joke is England finishes at Watford,it`s not a joke,it`s a reality. I have spent half a lifetime travelling to the South to visit my daughter and family,and then on to Glasgow to visit my remaining relatives there. I ALWAYS return to England depressed,when I compare the standard of living between the 2.It`s not fair,never has been,and I can well imagine how the yes vote is needed from an emotional point of view if nothing else.All the economics and logistics aside,Scotland deserves better,and if the yes vote wins it,well I hope with all my heart that Scotland will get to enjoy at least a little of the lavish luxury enjoyed by the minority in that 'other country' London.

And by the way,my new British passport is arriving by courier tomorrow I am informed,ironical ,if by Thursday it will be obsolescent.
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carmella
post 13th Sep 2014, 10:54pm
Post #49


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My passport expred in August 2013, I didn't renew because I don't intend going outside the UK again, in fact probably not even outside Scotland.

It's handy for other reasons to have a passport to I'll have it renewed, but it won't be in time for the 18th, so I suppose I'll just bide my time.

London is a bubble it's almost as if the city had a glass wall right around it because I swear most of the inhabitants don't live in the real world, they think only in terms of London and the south-east - that's a fact.


--------------------
It is possible to fail in many ways...while to succeed is possible only in one way.
- Aristotle
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gormac
post 13th Sep 2014, 10:57pm
Post #50

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I'm a Scot living in Australia. I'd take a chance and vote YES if I were given the vote.
But I haven't lived in Scotland for 50 years so wouldn't realistically expect to be counted.
It does seem strange though that Poles and Germans who may just have settled there recently get to vote.
I must say that I don't believe the YES campaign is likely to win given the recent news that the banks are threatening to pull out of Scotland. Do I sense the hand of Tory England behind that tactic?
Anyway guid luck to you all. Here's hoping......
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carmella
post 13th Sep 2014, 11:05pm
Post #51


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It's interesting to see today how many new members have come to this site to tell us what they think about the Referendum, and also some members who have not posted on the GG for a while.

It's nice to see and thank you all for your input. As for the different nationalites who have taken up residence in Scotland in recent times, you are quite right they are able to vote because they live here, have addresses here, and have registered to vote.

I can see how you would think it hard to understand, but at the end of the day it's purely because they live and work here, well some may not be working.


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It is possible to fail in many ways...while to succeed is possible only in one way.
- Aristotle
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bds1958
post 13th Sep 2014, 11:53pm
Post #52

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Right, here goes.........I moved south in "75" aged 17 and to be fair have prospered pretty well. I'm currently unemployed as the "green shoots of economic recovery" don't appear to be tickling my feet. During the last 39 years I have been proud of my country of birth and have extolled its virtues wherever I go. I've researched the history of Scotland, including the ill-fated Darien scheme which resulted in the Act of Union and the "Highland Clearances" to name but two famous "shaftings" by Westminster.
It saddens me that Scotland is still being "shafted" by "Planet London" and the "toffs" in the South.
I don't have a vote but if I did it would be YES. I've done the research on-line and have discovered many things that the Westminster controlled media will not let see the light of day.
People ask me how we can change things for the better in Scotland. You already have it better than the rest of the UK due to how the Scottish government chooses to spend your "pocket money". You have had a council tax freeze for the past 5 years and this continues, free care for the elderly, free university education, free bus passes for the elderly, free prescriptions and eye tests, no bridge tolls.
England has none of these benefits due to decisions taken by Westminster.
Scotland generated 53.1 billion in taxes last year. The Scottish government received 30 billion in a block grant, the UK “spent” the rest on your behalf + an additional 12.1 billion pounds on debt and “unspecified” costs. That means that Westminster spent 35.2 BILLION on your behalf; more than what the Scottish government received.
Any businessman will tell you that labour is their greatest outlay. Tax collecting and allocation is a business, income tax, oil revenues, VAT, air passenger duty, betting and gaming, cigarettes & alcohol, Fuel, TV licensing, road tax.
Scotland controls NONE of these revenues raised. The UK takes this money and allocates it how IT sees fit. Welfare & social security payments, licensing, national infrastructure projects, the military are all businesses. Ask yourself how many thousands of jobs are created OUTSIDE of Scotland to collect and spend 34 BILLION POUNDS. No one knows exactly but ALL will return to Scotland, boost your tax take, create employment and grow your economy at NO cost to Scotland.
The military contribution that Scotland forwards to the UK is 3.1 Billion per year. You receive 2 billion spent in Scotland, an immediate saving of 1 billion whilst maintaining at least the same military presence. Scotland’s military will be based in Scotland, not overseas. An additional 10-12000 direct jobs for personnel and their families. The supply chain and logistics required to support your personnel will create countless thousands more jobs again increasing your tax take at no additional cost to Scotland.
Remove your contribution to the House of Lords, (an unelected body), another immediate saving of 50 million per year. Remove your contribution to the HS2, (4.7 BILLION), a new London sewerage system, London cross rail, another London airport, Westminster upgrade at 500 million, subway upgrades and the Billions required for other London upgrades and you save countless billions that can be spent in Scotland again increasing employment, infrastructure and tax take at no cost to you.
By removing Trident you will save 4 BILLION per year, (the complete annual Scottish Education bill for the next 30 years). It can be spent on YOUR services, bairns before bombs! Trident is an American controlled system that YOU pay for. Even the US wants it scrapped and replaced with conventional forces. It is a vanity system for Westminster and provides NO credible deterrent. The US has Thousands of nuclear weapons and should ANYONE fire these then no one will need to worry about a referendum because there will be no one left.
There are around 200 countries in the world. Almost every single one will need an embassy or a consulate in Edinburgh. This will generate countless millions more, raising the countries profile and increasing travel to your main airports and generating additional jobs and revenue at no cost to Scotland.
Let us get to the additional monies that will come your way from Scotland’s hidden wealth. All of the main supermarkets, banks, English oil refineries, Oil companies head offices and countless other large businesses are registered in London. All whiskey exported from English ports is counted as UK revenue not Scotland’s. After independence these companies will have to register here and pay tax to the Scottish government. ALL of the oil companies head offices will transfer to the country who OWNS the oil. Thousands more highly paid jobs moving north generating increased tax take and employment opportunities at no cost to Scotland.
Tony Blair annexed 6000 square miles of Scottish waters illegally in 1999. This allowed oilfields and fishing revenue that Scotland created to be counted towards UK GDP and not Scotland, estimated at 2 billion per year. After independence these maritime borders will be restored under international law and the revenue transferred under the Scottish government, a massive benefit to YOUR economy at no cost to you.
There is a new oil boom and it will provide massive revenues for Scotland for the next 50 years. It is just beginning and the technology is now available to bring this oil onshore. This is why there is massive investment in the Shetlands not seen since the 70’s. This is also conveniently not reported in the mainstream media, (check Yes Shetland on FB). The UK has continually tried to downplay this benefit but it is what has propped up the pound for the past 40 years. Alistair Darling quoted exactly this. It is not just what comes out; it is what is still under Scottish waters, currently estimated at between 1-3 TRILLION pounds. Money will flood into Scotland when they have this security policy and without a currency union the RUK debt will increase overnight and they will be asked to pay a higher % against their debts. Ask yourself this, who would you lend money to, a country of 5 million who had just received this security against their debts or a country of 60 million with 1.4 trillion of debt who had just lost it? This is THE elephant in the room for Westminster. Without the security of what is UNDER Scotland’s waters then THEY are in a desperate position without currency union
Once Scotland negotiates its debt against its assets, (assets assumed to be in the region of 100 billion) you will have very little debt. Return all of your revenues and bring thousands of jobs home and remove your payments to build London and the SE and you may not even have a deficit. Whatever that is it will put you in the enviable position that you already are without any of these benefits, the 14th richest country in the world. Look around you and ask why your villages, towns and cities do not reflect this then look at London. You will then clearly see just WHO is "Better Together".
Ultimately, the Scottish people have to believe in themselves, the people and our nation, to do it better than Westminster......or else it will be "same shit, different year"................


--------------------
" a nation of sheep results in a government of wolves"

"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing."

“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”
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deebel
post 14th Sep 2014, 12:26am
Post #53


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I am proudly voting NO in the referendum. I have been swayed by neither campaign and have read little of the mountain of paper landing in my hall. For me it is not about politics. Politicians on every side let you down. Idealistic ambition is tempered by compromise, doing deals, changing the goalposts, spin, broken promises.

I was born in Scotland and have been Scottish and a British Citizen all my life. That defines who I am and that is what I want to remain. My roots are from Dumfriesshire, The Borders, Cumbria, Northumberland, Northern Ireland. My family are Scottish, English, Irish (and Welsh of Scottish parents). I feel affinity with people from the Southern Uplands of Scotland , the North of England and Northern Ireland. I am at home in Lanarkshire, Dumfriesshire, Cumbria, Antrim, Durham, Yorkshire. I do not feel that the Highlands are my home. I do not speak Gaelic. Gaelic speakers are foreign to me. Finding a proliferation of bilingual signage springing up in non Gaelic areas is annoying. I would rather have a reduction in my Council Tax. It is now a sacrifice at the altar of political correctness.

To risk all that I have now for the ability to make our own mistakes is not a credible reason for change. If you are a multi-millionaire or a lottery winner you can afford to play “countries” because when it goes belly up you still have £100million in the bank (no doubt in an offshore account).

If it is a No vote there will be millions of relieved No voters and the equivalent amount of dissappointed Yes voters but they will be able to say that at least they gave it their best shot.

If it is a Yes vote then there will be jubilant triumphalist nationals, but there will also be millions of angry Scottish British citizens who have been disenfranchised at a stroke. Hardly an outcome conducive to building a new idealogical utopia.

As I said it is not about politics for me. The United Kingdom is my country.
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bds1958
post 14th Sep 2014, 12:56am
Post #54

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QUOTE (deebel @ 14th Sep 2014, 12:43am) *
As I said it is not about politics for me. The United Kingdom is my country.

I do wish people wouldn't refer to the "United Kingdom" as a "Country".......Scotland is a country, Wales is a country, Northern Ireland is a country...............and England is a country. The United Kingdom is a State.....................London and the South East would regard the first 3 as "Regions". Whatever the outcome on the 18th is, all I can say is "You Reap What You Sow"...........


--------------------
" a nation of sheep results in a government of wolves"

"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing."

“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.”
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andypisces
post 14th Sep 2014, 02:55am
Post #55


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QUOTE (bds1958 @ 14th Sep 2014, 01:13am) *
I do wish people wouldn't refer to the "United Kingdom" as a "Country".......Scotland is a country, Wales is a country, Northern Ireland is a country...............and England is a country. The United Kingdom is a State.....................London and the South East would regard the first 3 as "Regions". Whatever the outcome on the 18th is, all I can say is "You Reap What You Sow"...........

I would like to point out as you have said, the united kingdom is not a country. Reading your long posting you mentioned money received from whiskey would go to scotland. Well whiskey is not scottish, whisky however is.
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Strangelove
post 14th Sep 2014, 03:16am
Post #56

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Not directly Scottish and, admittedly, I haven't been following the issue much. That said, I would repeat a quote I read (I think) in The Scotsman:

My heart says yes, but my head says no.

Just doesn't seem practical and would be a logistical nightmare.


--------------------
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means, by the time we see something, we've already passed through it.
Even with an IQ of 6000, it's still brown trousers time.
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Millymouse
post 14th Sep 2014, 07:16am
Post #57


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He even took elocution lessons to try and get rid of his accent grrrrr
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bilbo.s
post 14th Sep 2014, 07:27am
Post #58


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QUOTE (bds1958 @ 14th Sep 2014, 02:10am) *
Right, here goes.........I moved south in "75" aged 17 and to be fair have prospered pretty well. I'm currently unemployed as the "green shoots of economic recovery" don't appear to be tickling my feet. During the last 39 years I have been proud of my country of birth and have extolled its virtues wherever I go. I've researched the history of Scotland, including the ill-fated Darien scheme which resulted in the Act of Union and the "Highland Clearances" to name but two famous "shaftings" by Westminster.
It saddens me that Scotland is still being "shafted" by "Planet London" and the "toffs" in the South.
I don't have a vote but if I did it would be YES. I've done the research on-line and have discovered many things that the Westminster controlled media will not let see the light of day.
People ask me how we can change things for the better in Scotland. You already have it better than the rest of the UK due to how the Scottish government chooses to spend your "pocket money". You have had a council tax freeze for the past 5 years and this continues, free care for the elderly, free university education, free bus passes for the elderly, free prescriptions and eye tests, no bridge tolls.
England has none of these benefits due to decisions taken by Westminster.
Scotland generated 53.1 billion in taxes last year. The Scottish government received 30 billion in a block grant, the UK “spent” the rest on your behalf + an additional 12.1 billion pounds on debt and “unspecified” costs. That means that Westminster spent 35.2 BILLION on your behalf; more than what the Scottish government received.
Any businessman will tell you that labour is their greatest outlay. Tax collecting and allocation is a business, income tax, oil revenues, VAT, air passenger duty, betting and gaming, cigarettes & alcohol, Fuel, TV licensing, road tax.
Scotland controls NONE of these revenues raised. The UK takes this money and allocates it how IT sees fit. Welfare & social security payments, licensing, national infrastructure projects, the military are all businesses. Ask yourself how many thousands of jobs are created OUTSIDE of Scotland to collect and spend 34 BILLION POUNDS. No one knows exactly but ALL will return to Scotland, boost your tax take, create employment and grow your economy at NO cost to Scotland.
The military contribution that Scotland forwards to the UK is 3.1 Billion per year. You receive 2 billion spent in Scotland, an immediate saving of 1 billion whilst maintaining at least the same military presence. Scotland’s military will be based in Scotland, not overseas. An additional 10-12000 direct jobs for personnel and their families. The supply chain and logistics required to support your personnel will create countless thousands more jobs again increasing your tax take at no additional cost to Scotland.
Remove your contribution to the House of Lords, (an unelected body), another immediate saving of 50 million per year. Remove your contribution to the HS2, (4.7 BILLION), a new London sewerage system, London cross rail, another London airport, Westminster upgrade at 500 million, subway upgrades and the Billions required for other London upgrades and you save countless billions that can be spent in Scotland again increasing employment, infrastructure and tax take at no cost to you.
By removing Trident you will save 4 BILLION per year, (the complete annual Scottish Education bill for the next 30 years). It can be spent on YOUR services, bairns before bombs! Trident is an American controlled system that YOU pay for. Even the US wants it scrapped and replaced with conventional forces. It is a vanity system for Westminster and provides NO credible deterrent. The US has Thousands of nuclear weapons and should ANYONE fire these then no one will need to worry about a referendum because there will be no one left.
There are around 200 countries in the world. Almost every single one will need an embassy or a consulate in Edinburgh. This will generate countless millions more, raising the countries profile and increasing travel to your main airports and generating additional jobs and revenue at no cost to Scotland.
Let us get to the additional monies that will come your way from Scotland’s hidden wealth. All of the main supermarkets, banks, English oil refineries, Oil companies head offices and countless other large businesses are registered in London. All whiskey exported from English ports is counted as UK revenue not Scotland’s. After independence these companies will have to register here and pay tax to the Scottish government. ALL of the oil companies head offices will transfer to the country who OWNS the oil. Thousands more highly paid jobs moving north generating increased tax take and employment opportunities at no cost to Scotland.
Tony Blair annexed 6000 square miles of Scottish waters illegally in 1999. This allowed oilfields and fishing revenue that Scotland created to be counted towards UK GDP and not Scotland, estimated at 2 billion per year. After independence these maritime borders will be restored under international law and the revenue transferred under the Scottish government, a massive benefit to YOUR economy at no cost to you.
There is a new oil boom and it will provide massive revenues for Scotland for the next 50 years. It is just beginning and the technology is now available to bring this oil onshore. This is why there is massive investment in the Shetlands not seen since the 70’s. This is also conveniently not reported in the mainstream media, (check Yes Shetland on FB). The UK has continually tried to downplay this benefit but it is what has propped up the pound for the past 40 years. Alistair Darling quoted exactly this. It is not just what comes out; it is what is still under Scottish waters, currently estimated at between 1-3 TRILLION pounds. Money will flood into Scotland when they have this security policy and without a currency union the RUK debt will increase overnight and they will be asked to pay a higher % against their debts. Ask yourself this, who would you lend money to, a country of 5 million who had just received this security against their debts or a country of 60 million with 1.4 trillion of debt who had just lost it? This is THE elephant in the room for Westminster. Without the security of what is UNDER Scotland’s waters then THEY are in a desperate position without currency union
Once Scotland negotiates its debt against its assets, (assets assumed to be in the region of 100 billion) you will have very little debt. Return all of your revenues and bring thousands of jobs home and remove your payments to build London and the SE and you may not even have a deficit. Whatever that is it will put you in the enviable position that you already are without any of these benefits, the 14th richest country in the world. Look around you and ask why your villages, towns and cities do not reflect this then look at London. You will then clearly see just WHO is "Better Together".
Ultimately, the Scottish people have to believe in themselves, the people and our nation, to do it better than Westminster......or else it will be "same shit, different year"................

Excellent post. I think you just about covered everything. I won't even mention your spelling of whisky ! smile.gif Sorry !


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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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gardenqueen
post 14th Sep 2014, 07:58am
Post #59

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QUOTE (taurus @ 14th Sep 2014, 12:02am) *
I wouldn`t dream of trying to nominate a yes or no since I left a long time ago,but I do agree wholeheartedly with what Brian Cox said in his interview. London is a whole other country on it`s own,the big joke is England finishes at Watford,it`s not a joke,it`s a reality. I have spent half a lifetime travelling to the South to visit my daughter and family,and then on to Glasgow to visit my remaining relatives there. I ALWAYS return to England depressed,when I compare the standard of living between the 2.It`s not fair,never has been,and I can well imagine how the yes vote is needed from an emotional point of view if nothing else.All the economics and logistics aside,Scotland deserves better,and if the yes vote wins it,well I hope with all my heart that Scotland will get to enjoy at least a little of the lavish luxury enjoyed by the minority in that 'other country' London.
And by the way,my new British passport is arriving by courier tomorrow I am informed,ironical ,if by Thursday it will be obsolescent.

Just to clarify, I take it you mean by "the minority in that 'other country' London", the mega rich and the people from overseas investing in property in London, rather than the minority being the general people of London in comparison to the rest of the UK.

There is a lot of poverty in London and the South East. Housing that should have been demolished years ago commands very high rents and people have no choice but to pay it. There is still a lot of homelessness in the London area. I live in Hertfordshire which is now seeing a huge influx from people who are being forced out of London as they don't earn enough to live there. Cuts in help with housing and a lack of places on offer when they have to move out means having to leave the area where they were born and brought up.

There is standing room only on the commuter trains taking the average, hard working person into London to pay their sky high mortgages but the price is greater than that, they spend so long travelling that their family life suffers. Wages may be higher in London but it doesn't make up for the cost of living. E.g. as a teacher, my London Allowance was less than £2,000 pa. Not nearly enough to offset extra rent/mortgage paid.

Some just give up and move away from their family and friends to try to survive. I have seen this quite often.

We live comfortably enough here but I wouldn't say that our standard of living is any higher than that of family and friends in Scotland. If anything, we possibly have less disposable income.

We certainly don't live a lavish lifestyle nor does anyone I know here.
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GG
post 14th Sep 2014, 09:02am
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Willie sent his thoughts in by video link!


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