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> Glasgow: Worst Schools In Britain?, City bottom of UK qualifications league
Dylan
post 19th Sep 2011, 06:34pm
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Heather
post 19th Sep 2011, 08:50pm
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Our son went to a Private School for his Secondary Education in the early 70s and there was no corporal punishnent.
They got 'sides' which was a slip of paper with about 6/7 lines on it and the top line had a saying on it which the boy had to copy on the rest of the lines in his best handwriting.
What ever the mis-behaviour was depended on how many sides they got. The sides were checked and if not written very good they had to do it all over again.
If it was considered the boy had broken a serious rule the parents got a letter informing them about it.
We got a letter one time and when I phoned the College the Priest who answered was one I knew and he laughed at me and told me, ' away and blow your whistle if that's all you have to worry you'. He knew I was a Netball Coach.
Apparently our son had been caught talking during a grand silence. laugh.gif


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eidas
post 19th Sep 2011, 09:13pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 18th Sep 2011, 09:28pm) *
Surely if a Labour administration has, over several generations, removed the power from schools to administer disipline to pupils, then that Labour adminidstration must carry the can for the poor educational standards seen in schools all these generations later?
The old adage, spare the rod... springs to mind.

I think you'll find corporal punishment in schools was outlawed by the Thatcher government in 1987. However, it makes no difference which government introduced it, good on it for doing so!

I went to a school where the strap was used on a regular basis. It's in our nature to dislike some people we meet (or even those we don't meet, such as politicians), teachers are no different and I can clearly recall the dislike (perhaps bordering on hatred) some teachers had for some children!
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GG
post 19th Sep 2011, 09:58pm
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In terms of improving exam results, the topic of this discussion, I think it is fair to say that corporal punishment (CP) is a red herring. Remember that CP is banned in all Scottish and British schools, not just schools in Glasgow. Even if punishing the child was to lead to improved exam results (highly debatable), this would happen more or less universally across all schools in Britain, still leaving Glasgow schools at the bottom of league tables for attainment.

I think the debate about CP also to a large extent puts the locus of blame for poor performance in schools on the pupils, rather in what happens concerning teaching and administration policy, i.e. the remit of the council. Are we seriously saying that Glasgow has the worst educational attainment record over decades because the city has the worst-behaved children? If that's the case, can anyone explain what is happening at Jordanhill School, Glasgow's state-funded, non fee-paying school in the west of the city which is regularly amongst the top three performing state schools in Scotland?

GG.


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Dave Grieve
post 20th Sep 2011, 06:32am
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QUOTE
"can anyone explain what is happening at Jordanhill School, Glasgow's state-funded, non fee-paying school in the west of the city which is regularly amongst the top three performing state schools in Scotland?"

My personal opinion is you will find that the Parents are very much involved, both in attending school meetings and encouraging their kids. It could also be that the teachers are more motivated by feeding on the pupils responces.
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Dylan
post 20th Sep 2011, 07:41am
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GG said.

"In terms of improving exam results, the topic of this discussion, I think it is fair to say that corporal punishment (CP) is a red herring."

Exactly and is why I introduced a tounge in cheek levity !!!


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Melody
post 20th Sep 2011, 10:47am
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QUOTE
" If that's the case, can anyone explain what is happening at Jordanhill School, Glasgow's state-funded, non fee-paying school in the west of the city which is regularly amongst the top three performing state schools in Scotland?"

Easily Martin, take a well enough heeled area where parents are not beaten down by poverty and worry. Take those same parents who are able to retain 'normal' high ambition for their children. No specialised teaching required, no discipline problems, = Success. smile.gif
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Dave Grieve
post 20th Sep 2011, 01:02pm
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QUOTE (Melody @ 20th Sep 2011, 12:33pm) *
" If that's the case, can anyone explain what is happening at Jordanhill School, Glasgow's state-funded, non fee-paying school in the west of the city which is regularly amongst the top three performing state schools in Scotland?"

Easily Martin, take a well enough heeled area where parents are not beaten down by poverty and worry. Take those same parents who are able to retain 'normal' high ambition for their children. No specialised teaching required, no discipline problems, = Success. smile.gif

Melody when I first read your post my first reaction was at last someone has put their finger on the problem.
I then started thinking about what you said about poverty and worry and decided thats not the reason.
Over here we have black people living in poverty like you could not imagine, the poorest person living in Glasgow lives a life of luxury compared to some of them, but the one thing most of the local blacks do is make sure they have money for their childrens education, not only for their secondary education but they will insure that if their kids are talented enough to go to university they will deprive themselves of everything to make sure their child gets the best education possible, with the minimum expected a matric (o levels).
They know the value of a good education for their kids future and will do anything to ensure they get it.
Try living in a tin shack with only a mother working to provide for three or four or more people and still being determined to insure your kids get a better life than you have had.
Thats poverty and worry
Sorry Melody but for me the reasons you put forward are not the problem.
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Melody
post 20th Sep 2011, 03:12pm
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I can only speak from my experience in this country Dave. Education was often viewed as the way out of poverty here too in the past.
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ashfield
post 20th Sep 2011, 07:04pm
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QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 20th Sep 2011, 02:48pm) *
Melody when I first read your post my first reaction was at last someone has put their finger on the problem.
I then started thinking about what you said about poverty and worry and decided thats not the reason.

Dave, you have described the situation in South Africa very well but I don't think you can equate the sociology of North Glasgow with the townships. There is a deep rooted problem in Glasgow, and as I alluded to in an earlier post, I don't see there being a single solution to what is a complex problem.

I agree with Melody about issues of poverty contributing, look at the economics of those areas doing well with those doing badly and it is as plain as the nose on your face. It is not just a poverty of economic proportions though, it is the lack of political will to resolve the failing infrastructures of the schemes. It is the generations of family unemployment, the suspicion with which success is viewed and the draining of what little ambition some families have left (think Rab C's "we're rubbish and we know we are"). We don't just need to sort the system of education, we need to sort the social injustice that exists.

I can already hear folk saying, look at me, we were poor and I did all right. My answer to that would be "there for the grace of" etc etc.


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Alex MacPhee
post 20th Sep 2011, 07:10pm
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QUOTE (ashfield @ 20th Sep 2011, 08:50pm) *
We don't just need to sort the system of education, we need to sort the social injustice that exists.

What social injustices do you consider lead to the current situation?


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wee davy
post 20th Sep 2011, 07:26pm
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Va va va voom! What a million dollar question, Alex mellow.gif


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Melody
post 20th Sep 2011, 07:43pm
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As it is the situation in Glasgow North East we were discussing: Where to begin?

With 75% living in Glasgow North East classed as being in poverty, the constituency is, perhaps, the ultimate example of Britain’s ‘broken society’. Maybe this is a wee clue?
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Alex MacPhee
post 20th Sep 2011, 08:42pm
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The report, curiously enough, isn't about the achievements (or perhaps more to the point, lack of achievement) of school leavers today and the current performance of Glasgow schools. It was a survey of adults of working age in the age range 16 - 64.

I think it can be agreed relatively easily that adults of 64 left school a long time ago. So this report isn't a snapshot, it's an integration across half a century, and there is perhaps little in the way of ammunition to fire at current educational standards or evidence in favour of a return to flog-em disciplinary methods.


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Heather
post 20th Sep 2011, 09:00pm
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I think one way to sort out the discipline in schools, is for there to be more interaction between Teachers & parents with a lot of honesty on both sides.
Teachers should keep a recored of all mis-behavior of pupils and report this to the parents.
There would probaby be the need of a Security Officer hovering nearby.

Immigrants should not be allowed into main stream education until they are proficient in the English language.


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