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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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JAGZ1876
post 10th Feb 2018, 10:07am
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She goes AWOL when her party is dragging Scotland into a Brexit black hole but pops up on a local radio station to talk about baking cakes.


https://twitter.com/radioforthnews/status/961982875229999105

Can any of our Unionist supporting members give any reason at all as to why Scotland should trust these people? unsure.gif
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bilbo.s
post 11th Feb 2018, 08:27am
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Suck it up! All you slap happy isolationist xenophobics! You haven't taken anything back you sad ar....les you have given it all away to a bunch right wing elitists who are laughing at you!
Well we in Scotland do not intend going down the Brexit drain with the rest of you, we are leaving! You have created the biggest catastrophe since WW2, sold the hopes of future generations and you are still in blissful ignorance of what you have done!
Pathetic cannot even begin to describe it!


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wombat
post 11th Feb 2018, 07:04pm
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bilbo.s
post 13th Feb 2018, 09:41am
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prince21
post 13th Feb 2018, 10:03am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 13th Feb 2018, 09:41am) *

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Thanks for your post it tells the truth of how we in so called Great Britain are ruled by Unelectted people in power. Surely one day in the future the people in Great Britain will wake up and see sense.
The Brexit result showed to me how so divided and brainwashed half of the United Kingdom is and thank goodness most of the people of Scotland seen the light and voted for true Democracy.
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JAGZ1876
post 13th Feb 2018, 11:27am
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QUOTE (prince21 @ 13th Feb 2018, 10:03am) *
Surely one day in the future the people in Great Britain will wake up and see sense.



Sadly i won't be holding my breath on that one Prince. unsure.gif
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prince21
post 13th Feb 2018, 11:47am
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 13th Feb 2018, 11:27am) *
Sadly i won't be holding my breath on that one Prince. unsure.gif

Sadly you,re correct what Great Britain or United Kingdom needs is an elected Head of State in which the people chose it,s leader not unelected people in power making decisions mainly for the few and not the many maybe one day. I will not live long enough to see it hopefully my children will. Com on the Jags
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bilbo.s
post 13th Feb 2018, 10:39pm
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An open letter to Boris Johnson:

Dear Mr Johnson

You are planning to address why Remainers’ hearts are scarred by leaving the EU. Allow me to give you some insights from a Remoaner snowflake that might help.

Our hearts are scarred because the official Leave campaign led by you offered a confection of unfulfillable promises that any realistic appraisal would show to be unachievable. But you and your colleagues worked hard to denigrate anyone who offered such a realistic appraisal by dismissing it as Project Fear and sneering at ‘experts’. You even admitted that you were offering voters the prospect of having our cake and eating it: which has always been a byword for the impossible. It is still impossible, and yet as the fog of bombastic rhetoric clears and the unsquareable circle becomes ever more discernible you and your fellow Brexiteers continue to promise the unachievable.

Our hearts are scarred because even with all the pie in the sky promises, Leave would not have achieved a majority if it hadn’t been aided by a xenophobic parallel campaign fronted by Nigel Farage. You may not have endorsed his demonisation of those who come to the UK from other countries, but you certainly reaped the benefit. Unlike the EU citizens who are living and working here legally yet who have been abused, assaulted and made to feel unwelcome on the back of the referendum result. The campaign which helped you to your victory has brought needless division and unhappiness to many people.

Our hearts are scarred because you and your free marketeer cohorts managed to translate the result of an advisory referendum into a purported demand from the People for far more than they ever voted for: not just to leave the EU, but to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, to turn our back on our closest, largest market and transform the UK into a low regulation low tax offshore paradise for capitalists, combining Indian levels of environmental regulation with the tax rules of the British Virgin Islands. We do not want to see our country asset-stripped for the enrichment of a small cabal of businessmen and politicians for their own personal gain.

Our hearts are scarred because we care about our fellow citizens. The EU citizens who have come here to work and make a life in the UK, who have helped sustain our health service and our social care, who have contributed to our communities and our economic wellbeing. And our fellow British citizens who will suffer job losses, inflation and a diminished standard of living as a result of your desire to sacrifice our country on the altar of your ambition.

Our hearts are scarred because those who support Brexit have made every attempt to destroy the mechanisms that make our system of government great. You have repeatedly attempted to circumvent and neuter the sovereignty of Parliament (which is ironic, in view of Leave’s constant championing of Parliamentary sovereignty). You have cast doubt on the impartiality of the civil service. And you have sought to undermine the independence of the judiciary.

Our hearts are scarred because we are patriots, and because we believe that the referendum is being used by a small group to bring about an outcome which is utterly damaging to our country, the people who live in it, and the systems of law and government that have served as a model to the rest of the world for centuries.

And no bombast or empty promises from you will stop our hearts from being scarred. Time is running out, and all too soon you will have to stop your dance of the seven veils and stand naked before the People and before history. And they will judge you as we have already judged you: an empty, vain, ignorant man who was used by shadowy forces to destroy the country he falsely purported to love. So don’t worry about us: look in the mirror and worry about him.


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wombat
post 14th Feb 2018, 07:33pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 13th Feb 2018, 10:39pm) *
and the systems of law and government that have served as a model to the rest of the world for centuries.


laugh.gif sorry amigo nearly spat ma coffee when I read this laugh.gif laugh.gif


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the mighty only appear mighty
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wombat thit grates oan yie.
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bilbo.s
post 14th Feb 2018, 10:30pm
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Well, he didn't say they were a good model, Wombat! laugh.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 21st Feb 2018, 12:23pm
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Come oot come oot wherever you are. laugh.gif

http://www.thenational.scot/news/16036085....ng_Hard_Brexit/




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bilbo.s
post 24th Feb 2018, 01:46pm
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THE ARGUMENT FOR A SECOND REFERENDUM. By Nick Foster

Brexit. The democratic will of the people or a bloodless coup by the Tory party's Brextremists? Personally, I see nothing democratic about this process.
We know the referendum was deeply flawed. The Leave campaign lied and totally misrepresented the facts. The Eurozone wasn't about to implode. 70 million Turks weren't packing their bags ready to land here at any moment. And, of course, we never have sent the European Union £350 million a week. Their whole campaign was based on yet more anti-EU propaganda.
This toxic combination of deceit coupled with outside 'influence' from right-wing think tanks and Russia led to 17.4 million people being taken up the garden path. They were misinformed, scammed, hoodwinked into voting for something they didn't understand. Brexit is the biggest confidence trick ever played on the British people.
Yet, even using these dubious, underhand tactics, the Leave campaign only just managed to win an extremely slender majority in an advisory referendum which was obviously gerrymandered. The people who would be most affected by the result were denied a vote - 16/17 year-olds, EU citizens living here and UK citizens living in the European Union.
If David Cameron really wanted Remain to win why didn't he build in a fail-safe? Why didn't he ensure there was a requirement for a supermajority of two-thirds/one-third which is normal in matters concerning great constitutional change? The more cynically minded could argue that the whole thing was a stitch-up.
So how did such a feeble majority become a 'mandate'? Why was Article 50 triggered so quickly? Why does this government try to bypass parliament at every opportunity? The answer is the fact that the Prime Minister is being held hostage to Brexit by her party's hardliners - many of whom are members of the shadowy European Research Group.
The ERG is a 'party within a party' and Jacob Rees-Mogg has recently been appointed its chair, taking over from Suella Fernandes. Other members include Steve Baker, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Chris Grayling.
This highly secretive group (it has consistently refused to publish its membership list) is funded via its members' parliamentary official expense claims which so far amount to over £250,000 of taxpayers' money.
The stated aim of the group is to achieve the hardest of hard Brexits - severing all ties with the single market, the Customs Union and the European Court of Justice.
Another 'think tank' working hard behind the scenes to influence government policy on Brexit is the Legatum Institute, founded by New Zealand billionaire Christopher Chandler. Chandler recently gained notoriety as the person who paid upwards of ¤650,000 for a Maltese passport - presumably to work and travel freely throughout Europe after Brexit.
The Legatum Institute specialises in 'disaster capitalism' - essentially the practice of seeking out profitable opportunities in times of economic uncertainty - such as Brexit, for example.
This elite group of billionaires and Tory Brextremists are the puppet masters. They're the ones who are trying to ensure this government delivers a rock-hard Brexit. After that, it will be a race to the bottom to start a bonfire of all those inconvenient EU directives protecting human rights, workers' rights and the environment.
Their aim is to deregulate and turn this country into a grubby little tax-haven off the shores of Europe. They're like vultures surrounding a dying animal, waiting for 29th March 2019 before they can start feeding.
Now the truth about Brexit is starting to come out, it's time for our MPs to stand up and stop this car crash before any more damage is done. Brexit is a right-wing coup and it's hijacking our democracy.
If our MPs won't call Brexit out for what it is, then we'll have to do it ourselves. Time for a second referendum.


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DannyH
post 27th Feb 2018, 11:27pm
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I was watching TV and listened to Sir Martin Donnelly say, in the strongest way possible, that
"Leaving Brexit would be like giving up a three course meal for the promise of a packet of crisps."

He was Permanent Secretary of the Department of International Trade. In other words, a God within the Civil Service. He left the Civil Service in March 2017.

To those of you old enough to remember, the bumbling Permanent Secretary, in the TV series, "Yes Minister", the reality is that Permanent Secretaries are very, very, powerful men, not to be ignored by politicians.

Keep note of the Department he was head of, and what he said.

He was educated at the College of Europe in Bruges, and at Oxford University, and has been involved in European affairs for many years.

My background is slightly different from his. My Dad was a Lamplighter when I was born. I didn't finish my primary school education because of World War II. So I went to Stow College in Glasgow after work, when I was an apprentice engineer.

Later on I worked for a number of companies as a draughtsman, then joined the Civil Service working on engineering research projects. Then I was seconded to Whitehall, and went all over the UK monitoring projects that the Department of Trade & Industry had given grants to.

Now the reason I am rabbling on about myself, is to demonstrate how two people with such different backgrounds, can finish up working for the same employer, but have a different perspective about Brexit.

Knowing that Permanent Secretaries, are more shrewd than politicians and choose their words carefully, his words regarding Brexit were going through my head.

Why did he say them, I kept asking myself. Why didn't he expand on what he was getting at?

Then I found the answer unexpectedly. Recently, I bought a hedge trimmer, was given an electric juice maker, and an electric soup maker.

All were made in China (it said on the boxes) and there was one other thing they had in common.
There was no indication of who the manufacturer was, on the product.

However, the instruction manuals all gave the name and addresses of the holding companies. The names and addresses were all British.

So what Sir Martin is telling us, is, if the UK leaves the EU, British companies getting their goods manufactured in China, will not be able to sell their products in Europe.

Now coming from a working class background, and having worked on the shop floor, and watched manufacturing disappearing from the UK, what Sir Martin is warning us, is not that the working classes of the UK are going to suffer. It is the wealthy are going to have to come up with another way of getting their products sold throughout Europe. The legal loophole they had will be taken away from them if we leave Europe.

Now I can understand why the Chinese were expressing concern about Brexit. I mean they couldn't flood Europe with goods without a legal loophole could they?

Thank you Sir Martin. You knew what was going on when all this legal wheeling and dealing was going on, didn't you. Now the bubble has burst and you don't like it!

Danny Harris
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DannyH
post 28th Feb 2018, 06:43am
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In my above post, I said that the Permanent Secretary in Yes Minister, was the bumbling one. It was, of course, the politician, (Jim Hacket?) who was the bumbling one.

I hope this mistake doesn’t become the main topic of conversation in any responses to my original post.

The main issue remains, the warning Sir Martin has given regarding Brexit. Please stick to that.

Danny Harris
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bilbo.s
post 28th Feb 2018, 09:37am
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SCOTTISH LAW HAS NO EQUAL IN ENGLISH LAW

According to the Act of Union 1707 Scottish Law is sovereign in Scotland and has no equal outside Scotland. In other words Scotland has its own Law and no English or British court can over rule Scottish Law.

With that in mind it is also evident that the Scottish Parliament is sovereign when deciding Scottish Law and Westminster cannot simply over rule any Scottish Law that has been passed through the democratic process of the Scottish Parliament. With regard to the 111 powers that currently reside with the European Union and that are not retained by Westminster they must return to the Scottish Parliament as per the Devolution Settlement and the Scotland Act of 1998.

What Westminster are proposing is that the powers that are already devolved to the Scottish Parliament but are now residing with the European Union should return to Westminster after Brexit then they will decide which of these powers will be returned to the Scottish Parliament. They argue that there needs to be some discussion about which powers need to be agreed between the devolved regions of the United Kingdom and Westminster to insure fair competition within the four nations. The Scottish Government takes the position that these powers are already devolved and that they should return to Scotland automatically. Then the Scottish Government can sit down with Westminster and the other devolved regions to find common ground. Anything else, they say, is a 'Power Grab' and disrespects the Devolution Settlement.

The Westminster Withdrawal Bill went through the House of Commons and stated all powers would return to Westminster first then they would decide which of those powers would then return to the devolved parliaments. The Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly tabled amendments that would see all devolved powers return to the respective devolved nations but all amendments were rejected by the Westminster Government. The Bill eventually ran out of parliamentary time and was passed over to the House of Lords. The House of Lords have indicated that they support the Scottish Government position that powers already devolved should return to Scotland and that if they don't then it would create a constitutional crisis. If the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments refuse to give Legislative Consent to the Withdrawal Bill then it will provoke profound political division between the devolved nations and Westminster and thus the inevitable Constitutional Crisis.

The New Brexit Minister for Westminster David Lidington, has stated that 'Most' of the powers would return to the devolved parliaments but his comments have been met with fury from both the Scottish Government and the Welsh Assembly and both have indicated they will prepare a Continuity Bill. The main worry is that by Westminster clawing back control of areas such as Fisheries and the Environment that they will negotiate away those powers with Europe to the detriment of Scotland and Wales. Conservatives say the Bill is unnecessary and unhelpful but after repeated assurances that they would amend the Withdrawal Bill they have failed to do so. Even at this late stage they are still insisting that around 25 key powers must be retained by Westminster even although those powers have already been devolved.

The Continuity Bill means that the Scottish Parliament will pass a law that declares all powers currently held by the European Union will automatically return to Scotland after Brexit as they are already devolved. The Presiding Officer in the Scottish Parliament, Kenny MacIntosh has said he will not support a Continuity Bill as it is outwith the Powers of the Scottish Parliament. The Attorney General has declared that a Continuity Bill is within the powers of the Scottish Parliament. The Welsh equivalent of the Presiding Officer has approved the Welsh Assembly version of the Continuity Bill.

Some legal experts have suggested that Westminster can simply ignore the Continuety Bill and press ahead even if it means that they do so without the consent of the Scottish and Welsh governments. Given the rising support for Scottish independence and the growing uncertainty regarding the affects of Brexit the Westminster Government may regret taking that course of action. In any event the Act of Union clearly states that Scottish Law is paramount in Scotland and has no equal in English Law. The Supreme Court in London that was created more than 300 years after the Act of Union does not supersede that Act. The Scottish Parliament is there because the vast majority of Scots voted for it. That Parliament has a right to expect that powers already devolved to Scotland should return to Scotland after Brexit. It also has the right to pass laws that will insure that is the case.

Some legal experts have suggested that Westminster can simply ignore the Continuity Bill and press ahead even if it means that they do so without the consent of the Scottish and Welsh governments. Given the rising support for Scottish independence and the growing uncertainty regarding the affects of Brexit the Westminster Government may regret taking that course of action. In any event the Act of Union clearly states that Scottish Law is paramount in Scotland and has no equal in English Law. The Supreme Court in London that was created more than 300 years after the Act of Union does not supersede that Act. The Scottish Parliament is there because the vast majority of Scots voted for it. That Parliament has a right to expect that powers already devolved to Scotland should return to Scotland after Brexit. It also has the right to pass laws that will insure that is the case.


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