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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow News Blog _ City Centre Police Get Taser Stun Guns

Posted by: GG 29th Jan 2010, 10:29pm

Police officers patrolling the increasingly violent streets of Glasgow city centre are to be issued with controversial Taser stun guns from 1st April this year. The move is part of a pilot scheme by Strathclyde Police to evaluate the use of the weapons, which deliver a 50,000-volt electric shock via two projected metal hooks, to immobilise suspected offenders and prevent officers being assaulted.

The introduction of the £1000 stun guns for a trial period follows revelations that more than 4000 officers per year are assaulted in the line of duty in Strathclyde. Strathclyde Police Chief Superintendent Bob Hamilton said that the weapons were a safer alternative to batons and CS spray when trying to diffuse volatile situations.


Superintendent Hamilton added:
QUOTE
"The primary reason behind it is for increased protection for officers, the public and the people we deal with. Previously, Tasers were used as a less lethal option for firearms teams. But we feel they can be used where officers or members of the public are facing violent situations to control the people responsible."

Tasers have been criticised by international human rights' bodies, which claim that the stun gun has been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people in the United States over the years. Oliver Sprague of Amnesty International said:

QUOTE
"Of course the police have a duty to protect themselves and the community at large from violent situations, but arming more officers with dangerous weapons without the rigorous training and necessary safeguards could well be a recipe for disaster. Widespread and routine deployments can lead to tasers being misused, as we have seen in the US, which has on some occasions led to death. We don't want to repeat this in UK policing."

Previously only specially trained firearms' officers have been authorised to use Tasers, which have been deployed Strathclyde officers 29 times since their introduction in 2005. From April, however, three officers per shift will carry Tasers. The pilot scheme will be evaluated after six months, and if successful, the stun guns will be introduced across the entire Strathclyde force.


GG.

Posted by: *Peter Harte* 29th Jan 2010, 11:48pm

Yes i think Glasgow police should use taser`s,but only if the police are well trained in the use of them.I left Glasgow in 63 and some of the police then I wouldn't trust them with anything. I would like to think they would be better trained now. Over here in Ontario some of the police are are so slight of build they can hardly lift their sidearms so they need the extra protection.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 30th Jan 2010, 12:04am

I live in a Land where every police officer, as well as his neighbouring country colleagues, carry automatics on their hip belts.
When I came here at first I thought I wouldn't be too happy with armed police and even after having looked down three muzzles, one a machine pistol, brandished by police officers ... complete misunderstandings in all cases; honest, and a fourth with a border guard down the road from us, I'm glad that none of them were carrying Tasers, because with the exception of the border guard, the other officers would have used them on each occasion; the way things looked in the first few seconds on each occasion they couldn't have been blamed.
But I voted, Yes.
If the cops can't get carrying guns in the UK, or Scotland, then they need to be better armed than with a club and a pepper spray.
It would be hoped that they had more than a few seconds to think before getting wired in .

Posted by: glasgow lass 30th Jan 2010, 12:25am

I voted yes, the police should have much more protection for themselves and others over there, and for the ones who dont want to be tasered>>>>>dont commit any crime.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 30th Jan 2010, 12:45am

QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 30th Jan 2010, 01:23am) *
I voted yes, the police should have much more protection for themselves and others over there, and for the ones who dont want to be tasered>>>>>dont commit any crime.

... and dont be caught lookin' like you've been committing a crime. biggrin.gif

Posted by: stratson 30th Jan 2010, 12:59am

I think it's time the police had control of the streets, if this is what has to be, so be it.

Posted by: Catarina 30th Jan 2010, 01:48am

In Canada, the use of Taser guns has created much controversy on their use....Probably the worse case scenario was their improper use on a man who couldn't speak a word of English...

He landed in Vancouver,and apparently wandered from one place to another for about 8hrs. Finally frustration caused him to act rather strangely,and the Cops were called..

I think there were 4 or 5 of them...Instead of trying to calm the man, maybe in offering him a glass of water,even a chair to sit in showing their concern in a way he could get the message, they came with tasers firing... End of story, the man died. Many other cases where tasers were used,people have suffered heart attacks.

I believe tasers have their place,however extreme caution must be taken in their use.

If Police Officers depend solely on their use to avoid physical contact,which is part of their job,then tragedies will occur. I voted ...yes.....the boys in blue do deserve the best of protection, just don't get carried away with this very dangerous device.

Posted by: Catarina 30th Jan 2010, 01:50am

Sorry, I should have mentioned that he spent 8hrs at the Vancouver airport, where the police were called.... Of course their version of the story was very different from the pictures that were taken by a bystander.

Posted by: Lisa Limey 30th Jan 2010, 01:56am

The previous poster - stratson - got it right in that this shocking move -- without any public consultation, because we don't count -- is designed to ensure the police have CONTROL of the streets. However this move is not designed to deter criminals -- they will go about their murderous business as usual without any worries of being caught by an ineffective police authority. Instead this measure is designed to CONTROL the forthcoming civil unrest that will see those made unemployed by bankers greed take to the streets in protest at their lost lives. This is ALL about CONTROLLING legitimate dissent and protest.

In the meantime the streets of Glasgow will still be the most murderous and violent in western Europe.

Have a look at this video and think about what is being said. Look at the violence inflicted and think what the TASER really means on the streets of Glasgow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dik-mgCDcg

Or what about this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

Listen to the screams of the young boy who was only trying to make a political point, but was pounced on by official thugs.

Lisa.

Posted by: weebren3 30th Jan 2010, 03:54am

unsure.gif well they have tested this in canada and it has caused some deaths. I feel the police are never sure what they are up against, but then there is always more than one together,or one police will back the other no matter if they were wrong in there actions,then there are people who dont care, I would say guns and drugs are the biggest problem,or in the case of mental problems. I do hope if the police will use good judgment, if they have time to act on that.We are all human, so if it was my son or daughter on either side,they should be well trained and not use it for abuse. I guess there is A long list of reasons of when that action should be taken, not always good enough.A human beings life is at risk. I do hope there is A lot of thought into this use and carefull plan. Dont break the law some mothers heart would be broken. Take Care and value your life.

Posted by: weebren3 30th Jan 2010, 04:31am

I had A look at that vidio,of the taser being used on the young man at kerrys speach. Ha in the US look how many police they had around too, it is totaly wrong, and the one with the lady, while her kids were in the car and saw it all one police officer, she was lucky he did not take his gun out, thats the norm for the US, all for the camara for all to see. Makes me angry hope he got booted out of the police force. There is always some abuse when they have A badge, it dont give them the right thats why we have A judge and court to deal with the law. Makes me angry, sorry I just hope when they test them in glasgow they are better trained.

Posted by: mack48 30th Jan 2010, 04:47am

To receive news like this at 4am was shocking(no pun intended).I always watch the Police in USA programs of reality TV,& have seen what these Taser guns do to people,(REGARDLESS OF WHY THE DECISION TO USE THEM IS DECIDED,Which comes down to singular Police officers equipped with them,has been terrible.I am hitting 50 years old. & not broken laws in 31/32 Years.(Which were minor traffic violations).But after watching US officers call out to Freeze! & perpetrators in broken laws like stealing cars etc ,& panicking,making them run,a reaction that even a chocolate bar theif can get.Then to be hooked by 2 wires fired JUST LIKE A DEADLY GUN,that puts them on ground unable to move.(ok,it stops a chase! But aren't our police meant to be fit enough to chase until caught? Therefore,crooks that tasers are used on,could have heart problems,Even pacemakers going to extreme.& suddenly 50,000 volts are jolted into them? Are officers who get to carry these terrible tasers going to take responsibility if their taser action causes a death? I refer to 30+ years ago whilst setting up my electric guitar & Amp for a practice night in a band,& uk voltage of 240v,but wires were stretched in the main ug,& my strings became live,I couldn't move or speak,& was so rigid with 240v I fell like a straight up statue over a table,with guitar stuck to both hands.& quick thinking by my brother who played bass in the band made him kicked the guitar from my touch,in effect,saving my life!! When others thought I was joking around!! I had 6 lines from the strings on one hand,& 4 lines on other hand,burnt into me badly.& I was shaking bad for around 45 minutes.So I imagine say,an opportunist theif who grabs a handbag etc.& police are nearby & warnings of STOP are ignored in panic.& he/she may have angina,of other related problems that 50,000volts would kill!! By what I've seen on reality tv police do not shout out that a taser with 50k volts are going to be fired at them.No,they just release the coils & hooks & I've stated some consequences.If Tasers are being allowed,why not go the full hog & provide hand guns too!! This is an absolutely terrible decision to give police this power.Guns were always a No Go except special forces facing terrorists etc,but beat & car patrols etc should not be given these highly dangerous items.There are too many stories of officers being put off the force due to a court case showing bad treatment etc.Let guns & tasers & more stay in the other side of the world,is my opinion!!

Posted by: cocotkd 30th Jan 2010, 05:39am

a lethal peace,put in the hands of police in glasgow oh what fun they will have with these, it will be like an arcade shooting gallery in the streets of glasgow. the police here are to afraid of youth today but i don't think they should be giving these weapons, every police officer should take a course on martial arts until they are black belt level then put on the streets where they would be able to handle a situation much easier. but the police in glasgow will use first and ask questions later and i think the public know this. some poor guy will come out of the pub drunk stagger down the road next minute he'll be told to stop and refuse then BANG tazered. the police get to protect themselves with these, what about victims of crime can we go buy these, no chance so why should they be aloud to get them because after all they don't protect the public, the victim is in hospital before they come and say what happened to you. another thing that bothers me i am diabetic and i could take a hypo at any time and taking a hypo can make you do silly things you don't know you are doing for example i could be walking the streets in my bare feet and no top on and not have a clue i am doing it,next minute i,m getting tazered because i,m doing something out of the ordinary and the police wont approach me to say whats wrong they will stand back and zap 50,000 volts.

all the best people enjoy the debate this is only my opinion

Posted by: Rob Rattray 30th Jan 2010, 05:54am

Can't actually see the necessity for weapons, but as 1st April has been mentioned for the 'trial' release, can't see that eventuating anyhow!
If it does creep in, it will only prove how modern policing needs to hide behind the alleged 'protection' of firearms when we, the public, are told of their [firearms] illegality!

Posted by: *amclpreston* 30th Jan 2010, 05:57am

I'm very much not in favour of increasing the abiliities of police to commit violence by remote control.

Posted by: *kirrie kiwi* 30th Jan 2010, 07:00am

Great idea tazers have been in use in NZ for a while and have saved lives mostly the Crim as he would have been shot with a gun and most likely killed

Posted by: Guest 30th Jan 2010, 07:45am

One has only to see universal TV reports of of police continually around the globe, batoning protesters on the ground, to wonder what the real reason behind this big brother move is really about. We are the most monitored and policed society in Western Europe. The fact that society is also going downhill is purely coincidental. The answer to everything is not security. Britain and the US have made the Middle East a hot spot by their Imperialist interference and has created these very terrorists and its out of control security is of their own making.

Listening to Tony Blair and their false inquiry things can only get worse.

Posted by: *John Manson* 30th Jan 2010, 09:19am

Hi there

I think our police have enough problems and do not agree with arming them in any fashion. I only agree with specially trained gun squadies and not individual officers. Can you i magine shinny buttons in Ayr, blow your nose and your gettin it.

No thanks.

Posted by: *Andrea* 30th Jan 2010, 09:59am

QUOTE (stratson @ 30th Jan 2010, 12:57am) *
I think it's time the police had control of the streets, if this is what has to be, so be it.

Here Here agreed.

Posted by: Guest 30th Jan 2010, 10:05am

So we are told that Strathclyde Police are responsible enough to police both themselves and the public? Well take the case of a Strathclyde policeman who has gained himself the happy moniker of "Shiny Buttons". This week PC Shiny Buttons was in the news because he issued a £60 fixed penalty notice a man who blew his nose while in his car. Of course you say he must have been driving on a motorway at the time.... but no, the motorist was in fact stationary in his vehicle at the time, stuck in a traffic jam with the handbrake on. The young driver had never been in trouble with the police and has since refused to pay it and is intent on taking the issue through the courts to clear his name.

Another of PC Shiny Buttons most recent exploits was to issue another fine, this time £50 fixed penalty, to an unemployed man who accidentally dropped a £10 note in the street after leaving a shop.

Do you really think the streets of Strathclyde would be any safer by giving PC Shiny Buttons a 50000volt Taser???

Posted by: Alemass 30th Jan 2010, 11:41am

Glasgow Lass states that if you don't want to be tasered then don't commit a crime. Her naivete certainly does not empower her logic. The case cited by Caterina re the Polish immigrant who was virtually murdered by the five Mounties who each blasted him with this "safe" weapon multiplying the voltage many times, and all because no one could understand him and when an interpreter could not be found. He was blasted and blasted and blasted Glasgow Lass without having committed a crime. This incident was defended by the Mounties who lied to protect each other.
Fortunately a Public inqury has found them to be guilty of negligence causing death but the recommendations have still to be enacted. There are many other incidents of Taser misuse here and in the US. Arm the cops and then watch the criminals arm themselves.

Posted by: ronnieauld 30th Jan 2010, 12:02pm

wit a glesga polis with a taser gun omg, there bad enough with there batons, besides it has been proven world wide that tasers can cause DEATH in certain conditions, so how wid the polis know who is wearing an pace maker or has heart condition ect ect. I say NO to glesga polis having tasers.

Posted by: ricky1824 30th Jan 2010, 12:28pm

I voted yes as long as they don't give one to the EEDJIT in Ayr Constabulary who booked the guy for blowing his nose in a traffic jam whilst stationary what a waste of Police resources.
I agree with tasers in principal as long as they are given to trained personnel and not some Rookie straight out of Tulliallan with some naive judgement calls.My one fear is them getting into the hands of the bad guys some of the Police on the street are wee lassies playing in uniforms with the no height restriction and the welfare state the thugs are bigger than the Polis rolleyes.gif

Posted by: glasgow lass 30th Jan 2010, 01:44pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 30th Jan 2010, 12:43am) *
... and dont be caught lookin' like you've been committing a crime. biggrin.gif

Good morning Tee, well lets say that the police were carrying guns and I only looked like I had committed a crime, then a could say tae maself, oh dont worry Lass, your only going to get your head blown off. biggrin.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 30th Jan 2010, 02:10pm

Hi Lass. in the (true) cases that I mentioned here where it looked like I was the criminal the police, obviously, didn't blow my head off ... although in one case I, too, was armed. They came into a room looking for a nutter with a gun and found a guy in a suit with a bloody nose and mouth and a guy with a pony tail wearing a leather jacket, Ossy Osbourne T shirt, stretch jeans and Cuban Heel boots, about to pull him up by the jacket lapels. Guess who was wearing the Ossy Osbourne T shirt? rolleyes.gif
I had just disarmed the suit who had come to the hotel to shoot the manager. But when the police came in ... you can guess who they thought the baddy was. I just put my arms in the air and let one of them throw me against the wall.
Seconds later the girl who had screamed for my help came in and told the police I was the goody.
The police normally don't shoot ... not out here, anyway, until they must. And if they're pointing guns at close range there's no way I'm giving them cause to shoot. So no one's shooting.
But with a Taser?
They'd have Tased me right away to be on the safe side.

Posted by: petunia 30th Jan 2010, 03:28pm

I have seen the results of taser use in Canada as someone mentioned in Vancouver where a mentally disturbed person died as the result of being tasered and he wasn't the first.
Growing up in Glasgow I don't remember guns being necessary to keep people safe but the world has changed and crime like in many places has increased whereby policing is more dangerous than when the "bobby"was on the beat.
I voted to wait and see but I do believe that our police officers need some kind of deterant when out there

Posted by: scotia69 30th Jan 2010, 03:33pm

It seems to me that the police of to-day are dammed if the do and dammed if they don't. If people can't do the time , don't commit the crime.

Posted by: Anne1 30th Jan 2010, 04:10pm

I wouldnt like to see the Tazers being used by Glasgow Police

Posted by: Guest 30th Jan 2010, 04:55pm

check what happened in canada when the mounties used them

Posted by: Java 30th Jan 2010, 05:05pm

Me neither Anne...ah voted no...huh.gif

Posted by: fronswa 30th Jan 2010, 05:13pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 30th Jan 2010, 02:08pm) *
They'd have Tased me right away to be on the safe side.

Yup!

We all know that most of the police will be reasonable if they were allowed to carry them, but FAR too many will 'trigger happy'.

I have to add though that Strathclyde police seem a lit bit more reasonable on the whole. Especially if you compare them to the Met' in London. mad.gif

But if you give the police something... they're going to use it. No doubt about it.

Look at the Terror Laws, and the number of people that have been detained using them.
-The guy at the Labour conference -
-Two journalists at an arms fair in London
- and the best of the bunch... one of the Lords that actually helped set up the terror law in the first place. huh.gif
None of them had anything to do with terrorism. It was just a handy tool that allowed the officers on duty to cut corners, and detain someone without reasonable cause.

If you think about the trial period... what officer is going to abuse it, or be too quick to use it if they are under close scrutiny? None!

Posted by: Jim D 30th Jan 2010, 06:09pm

The current Taser guns operate using low current and high voltage. It is used to cause an involuntary contraction of the muscles.

The shock from a household appliance is more dangerous.

Police officers in Scottish Police forces are trained in all methods, baton, handcuffs and CS spray. This training is continuous throughout their service. You cannot be an operative officer unless you have qualified and continue to re-qualify in the skills annually. It is part of the compusory officer safety training, which also include basic first aid and CPR. Each time an officer uses any of these he must be able to personally justify his use of force.

Officers have been wearing "stab proof" body armour for years? Why? I think it was issued because it was deemed necessary. A person with a knife is potentially and commonly a killer. That person could justifiably be shot dead by a firearms officer.

The skills required to use a Taser gun required strict rules regarding when it IS and is NOT justifiable in using such force.
The Taser gun has been in use by authorised firearms officers in Scottish Forces for a number of years . Have we heard of any horror stories? If there were we would have heard of them in the press.

Unlike officers in other countries, the Police in Scotland do not approach a motorist with a gun in order to do a routine check. The normal approach is that the person in the car is a normal member of the public. Why should that change?

On the other hand, if the person is causing a danger to the officer or other members of the public? That person deserves to receive the full force of the law!

Why should a Police officer be deliberately under-equipped to protect himself and the public? The officer is the person you would expect to come to your assistance when you are attacked and when you are in danger - to possibly put themselves into the same dangerous situation with you. They would then be expected to relieve you from that danger. That action requires suitable equipment to minimise the danger to themselves and the public.

Posted by: Guest 30th Jan 2010, 06:58pm

No, no, no,!-the UK Police Force is respected the world over for being able to handle difficult situations with diplomacy and teamwork, not tasers and guns. Although even the Police are not perfect, they are just a reflection of the society they live and work in and considering this we must support them, not encourage them to be pro-actively aggressive. This is always the temptation when you arm 'peacekeepers'. The record shows, that apart from a few sad cases the Police have managed to control the streets protecting themselves and the innocent public without this kind of thing. I fear, if brought into use, it could be a slippery slope..towards packing pistols. My father was a policeman and he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry.

Posted by: fronswa 30th Jan 2010, 07:43pm

QUOTE (Jim D @ 30th Jan 2010, 06:07pm) *
Why should a Police officer be deliberately under-equipped to protect himself and the public? The officer is the person you would expect to come to your assistance when you are attacked and when you are in danger - to possibly put themselves into the same dangerous situation with you. They would then be expected to relieve you from that danger. That action requires suitable equipment to minimise the danger to themselves and the public.

They have stab proof vests, batons, CS spray, handcuffs, vans, cars, helicopters, dogs, and considerable assistance at the call of a radio - which includes assault rifles, and armoured riot squads.
Add to that the fact that they have more rights under legislation than normal citizens (quite impressive rights that are abused on a daily basis by some). Granted, with that, they are also obliged to get involved in a situation - if they didn't they could be charged, unlike normal folk who can pass by a rape etc, and wouldn't be committing a crime.

We give the police a considerable edge over the rest of us in society so that they can perform their role. And rightly so. But there's limits, and some of us disagree where those limits are.

To say that they are accountable if they screw up and misuse their powers is a bit of a stretch by the way.
Yeah... they'll be disciplined if there are independent credible witnesses nearby.
If not?
The Met were trying to blame protesters for the death of that guy in London until camcorder footage came out. The police are only accountable if someone is there to see them, or the officers present are willing to 'rat out' their colleagues, and that's pretty rare to find given the nature and conditions of their work-life.

Police in Glasgow are pretty professional in my experience, but where I grew up they were off their heads.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 30th Jan 2010, 08:59pm

QUOTE (fronswa @ 30th Jan 2010, 08:41pm) *
... Granted, with that, they are also obliged to get involved in a situation - if they didn't they could be charged, unlike normal folk who can pass by a rape etc, and wouldn't be committing a crime.

That's strange. In Germany if you walk past someone in trouble and ignore the situation, you have committed a crime, Same as if you drive past a car accident where people might be injured and ignore that, you have committed a crime.

Posted by: fronswa 30th Jan 2010, 10:01pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 30th Jan 2010, 08:57pm) *
That's strange. In Germany if you walk past someone in trouble and ignore the situation, you have committed a crime, Same as if you drive past a car accident where people might be injured and ignore that, you have committed a crime.

Yeah.
I'd probably prefer it if people were obliged to step in, assuming they are able bodied etc.

'Bystander Intervention' is a funny subject though. It's all well and good me saying that people should step in and get involved, but until I'm in that situation, and faced with any risks etc, it's all just talk on my part.

When you mention someone in trouble in Germany, do you mean general trouble, or being assaulted by another?
I can understand the car accident thing in.

Posted by: j.irvine bell 31st Jan 2010, 12:42am

I have voted to wait and see. I see that usual know it all politicos are at it again. Anytime the subject of the police is raised they are out with their mythical accusations of riot squads beating up the population as a whole and their political fellow travellers in particular. As we all know the preservation of public order is a police matter and it can hardly be otherwise unless you want to return to the days of the army and militia controlling the private citizens of this country. I am really tired of the constant comparisons of Scotlands police forces with the multiple law enforcement agencies and their methods in the U.S.A. who seem to cross each others paths. In recent years we have seen the G8 summit at Gleneagles and although there was some localised violence - probably on both sides - the fact remains that compared with law enforcement agencies on the continent and elsewhere our police used a softly softly approach which was overall a success and for which they should be commended. Perhaps the miners strikes in the eighties - another of Thatchers legacies - caused a lot of concerns about police tactics and methods but it appears that they have learned from this. It is also curious that the bloggers opposed to this have questioned the training of the police in the use of this weapon. I would expect that the officers concerned would receive full training as every other specialist in the police does from your traffic cop, dog handler, mounted division, C.I.D. officers and last by no means least your firearms specialist. I have never been in favour of an armed police service other than those especially trained in the use of firearms when the occasion demands it, but not only the level of violence but the very methods used in this new century demand something more than a wooden or extending metal truncheon or even a pepper or similar spray. Not only for the protection of the officers but the public they serve. To the vast majority of people whose contact with the police is rare if ever and who are not politically radical in the extreme sense whether of the left or right, the police are thought off very little until some serious disruption offending society in general, or the death or serious injury of an officer on duty and the even rarer occasions of corrupt officers, comes to their attention via the media . Then the approbation or condemnation comes but is normally in both cases short lived. If this device proves to be effective in containing violent crime then it should be available to SELECTED and voluntary officers for the protection of the public as well as the police. So let us await the outcome of the trial period and the assessment by all the experts, including public opiniion, and we can take up this debate again. Let the hotheads have their say - they will anway as we all live in a democracy that allows us so to do and not in a totalitarian state where opposition is swiflty and often violently executed in every sense of the word. I would not normally support any wait and see approach but as our Nation and City have had no real experience of such methods on a day to day basis, this I contend is the best way forward without compromising the integrety of the excercise. dry.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 31st Jan 2010, 12:57am

Fronswa, I think if you see someone being assaulted and don't at least inform the police asap then you are liable to criminal prosecution. If you walk or drive past as if you had seen nothing and do nothing you have commited a crime. ( ... and if you were clocked on a CCTV being a passer-by ... ?)
But I'll check it out and let you know on that.

Posted by: Bob T 31st Jan 2010, 05:10am

"...he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry. "

Time to wake up! I've lived in 3 other countries where police are armed and i've never felt threatend. Look at what happened at the ASDA carpark a week ago. If there was a patrol car there, they could have followed the suspects instead of getting on the radio and waiting for the armed squad. 15 minutes would be a long time to wait if you were getting shot at.

So, would we have circumvented WWII by getting rid of the army navy and AF?

No sidearms is great in fantasy land, but in the city with the highest knife crime rate in Europe, they are a nessesity.

Posted by: R Mac 31st Jan 2010, 05:17am

Hi fronswa,

It is not worth getting involved in any violence here. I have intervened twice in Glasgow, once on Sauciehall St and one in the West End where people were gettingkicked in the head on the ground. The second time group tried to attack me. End result? I was charged wih assulting a minor (17 years) and 19 year old. The guy getting kicked didn't want to press charges on the gang, but the gang were happy to do it to me. Luckily they didn't turn up on the day in court, but geez.

The Lesson:
Do not ever get involved in anything.

Posted by: weebren3 31st Jan 2010, 05:49am

sorry I need to replym regarding german post. We dont live in germany but in any situation when some one is in an acident or needs help in A car,crash sick, or being attacked,we would have to be A moron,no compasion not to do something to help,would be totaly wrong.I have never met A scots who would not do that,or even call the police in A bad situation,at least we would do something right. Anyway my opinion again,we all have that right,and it would be A crime if we done zipo. dry.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 31st Jan 2010, 04:14pm

Naw.

I widnea even trust some bizzies with a bottle of tizer let alone 50 000 volt "stun gun." Wits next, equipping the foosties with tranquilizer darts an blaw pipes? Mind ye that would suit some of them.

Must be other ways of curbing the "growing violence" on the "streets.", like reducing the causes in the first instance?

Same old crapperage, fight fire with fire, maybe buckets of cauld water wid be better fur “cleaning up the streets.”

Posted by: *Jim McGee* 31st Jan 2010, 04:59pm

If we didn't have politcally correct socialism in this country, we wouldn't have half as much crime. The ridiculously scrawny little male and female coppers who arrive at the scene of an incident is enough to evoke raucous laughter.. A physical presence is neccessary to keep thugs in order. Big sturdy men in uniform rarely have to lift a finger to stop a disturbance and would rarely require a stun gun . The idiots who removed the size and weight guidlines for police entry are to blame for civil disorder. The big lads in the force must dread being paired with one of these arrogant midgets. It doesn't matter if a 5Ft copper can handle him/herself, they look ridiculous straining to run weighed down by a belt full of accessories. If you are a little police officer you are there because of socialist equality stupidity not because the police or public want you, help the cause of law and order and get a job at ASDA.

Posted by: *Jim McGee* 31st Jan 2010, 05:05pm

QUOTE (Guest @ 30th Jan 2010, 06:56pm) *
No, no, no,!-the UK Police Force is respected the world over for being able to handle difficult situations with diplomacy and teamwork, not tasers and guns. Although even the Police are not perfect, they are just a reflection of the society they live and work in and considering this we must support them, not encourage them to be pro-actively aggressive. This is always the temptation when you arm 'peacekeepers'. The record shows, that apart from a few sad cases the Police have managed to control the streets protecting themselves and the innocent public without this kind of thing. I fear, if brought into use, it could be a slippery slope..towards packing pistols. My father was a policeman and he feared the acceptance of arming in any way would give criminals more excuse to be violent and consequently damage trust in our Police men and women, all who have signed up to protect us without the help of mainstream weaponry.

I'm sorry mate. you must be living in a different Glasgow from me. the police officer who steps in front of us to protect us from a thug needs the tools to do the job, personally i would give them all guns.

Posted by: Melody 31st Jan 2010, 07:19pm

Aw Rabbie ah'm wi you pal as usual. Sometimes yer posts are aw that keep me just on this side of sanity. smile.gif Enough to say I don't agree with this zapping of folk business.

Posted by: the wean 31st Jan 2010, 10:43pm

QUOTE (GG @ 29th Jan 2010, 10:27pm) *
Police officers patrolling the increasingly violent streets of Glasgow city centre are to be issued with controversial Taser stun guns from 1st April this year. The move is part of a pilot scheme by Strathclyde Police to evaluate the use of the weapons, which deliver a 50,000-volt electric shock via two projected metal hooks, to immobilise suspected offenders and prevent officers being assaulted....

I think taser guns are a good idea only if the officers that are using them do so wisely and not just for the sake of it.

Posted by: Jim D 1st Feb 2010, 02:27am

QUOTE (Rabbie @ 31st Jan 2010, 04:12pm) *
Naw.

I widnea even trust some bizzies with a bottle of tizer let alone 50 000 volt "stun gun." Wits next, equipping the foosties with tranquilizer darts an blaw pipes? Mind ye that would suit some of them.

Must be other ways of curbing the "growing violence" on the "streets.", like reducing the causes in the first instance?

Same old crapperage, fight fire with fire, maybe buckets of cauld water wid be better fur “cleaning up the streets.”

Considering some of the weapons that an unarmed police officer has to face, your approach is such that you might aswell give them a bottle of Tizer to try and apprehend someone with a dangerous or lethal weapon.

The officers safety and the publics safety must be the priority.

It is a "pilot" project at the moment. Lets await the outcome. All the various statistics will be available when it it complete to decide whether it is a good thing or a bad thing.

As for curbing the growing violence on the street?

The violence was met by an equal violence by the police. Result - Police1 Thugs 0.

Was it the right approach? It certainly isn't the approach that our politicians would like in this modern age.

Posted by: fronswa 1st Feb 2010, 05:08am

QUOTE (R Mac @ 31st Jan 2010, 05:15am) *
Hi fronswa,

It is not worth getting involved in any violence here. I have intervened twice in Glasgow, once on Sauciehall St and one in the West End where people were gettingkicked in the head on the ground. The second time group tried to attack me. End result? I was charged wih assulting a minor (17 years) and 19 year old. The guy getting kicked didn't want to press charges on the gang, but the gang were happy to do it to me. Luckily they didn't turn up on the day in court, but geez.

The Lesson:
Do not ever get involved in anything.

Yeah, I know a few horror stories. But if you look on the bright side, you might have saved that guy from brain injury or sumthin'.
The more people that are willing to take a risk and get involved in some way or another, the better. I think that some of the thugs are willing to go mental in the streets because they know there's little chance of other getting involved. You getting involved that time could well have made those 'minors' think twice about acting up in public again.

I was involved in a stramash on a bus a while ago, ah even got called as a witness. Because me and another bloke got involved, the other bloke far more than me, I'm pretty sure the guys causing the problem got a shock.

It's all about weighing up the pros and cons I suppose. There's some situations where getting involved is just not on. If the worse that happens is you get called to court on bogus charges then I'd say it's well worth it.

Posted by: tamhickey 1st Feb 2010, 05:09am

I voted no. Do we really want to see violence prosper? If we equip the police with tazers, you can be sure that the really serious villains will equip themselves with more guns, and that will, in turn, lead to the cops being issued with guns. I think it's a hard enough job for the police just now, but this may make their job even more difficult in the long run.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 1st Feb 2010, 09:50am

Why are the majority of folks here against arming police on the whole?
Is the UK the only Island on the planet where those who must maintain law and order have to go about it unarmed?
Personally I'd rather not pussy about with Tasers and issue 9mm guns instead.

Posted by: Bestie 1st Feb 2010, 01:09pm

SHOCKING! ohmy.gif I am wary of folk with heart conditions etc, will the police take responsability for any deaths incurred when the use causes heart attacks or worse? unsure.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 1st Feb 2010, 02:12pm

QUOTE (Jim D @ 1st Feb 2010, 02:25am) *
Considering some of the weapons that an unarmed police officer has to face, your approach is such that you might aswell give them a bottle of Tizer to try and apprehend someone with a dangerous or lethal weapon.

My approach is merely wan that aims to avert unnecessary and excessive violence in the first instance. If we could manage that it may jist obviate the need for issuing zap guns and firearms. Place is getting mar like the no so OK Corral everyday.

Noo then, dinnea be so quick tae dismiss ra humble tizer boattle. A tizer boattle can be rather nasty, especially if ye haulf fill it with cheap voddie, it's enough tae stun an ox let alone a wee ned.

Wit next coppers packing double holsters, winchester 1873's, conchos, ammo loops an wearing leather chaps, silk scarves, Stetson hats, spurs an a tin star!? Nea thanks, jist imagine the smell.

Posted by: Bestie 1st Feb 2010, 05:12pm

My approach would`nt matter anyway. A bottle of tizer sounds much more friendly! Do you have any relatives or friends with pacemakers? I just think that those with pacemakers don`t (usually) carry a billboard with them informing police that they have indeed a pacemaker inserted so, how do the police know if they are aiming the taizer at somebody they may well kill! The taizers have been used before on folk who are just too darn drunk to act responsibly and it is those folk I refer to.

Posted by: Jim D 1st Feb 2010, 09:02pm

QUOTE (Bestie @ 1st Feb 2010, 05:10pm) *
My approach would`nt matter anyway. A bottle of tizer sounds much more friendly! Do you have any relatives or friends with pacemakers? I just think that those with pacemakers don`t (usually) carry a billboard with them informing police that they have indeed a pacemaker inserted so, how do the police know if they are aiming the taizer at somebody they may well kill! The taizers have been used before on folk who are just too darn drunk to act responsibly and it is those folk I refer to.

How many people do you know with pace makers that would get involved in violent crime or violent behaviour, whereby, an officers safety or the safety of the public would be put in serious risk?

This weapon is not to be used on people for a road traffic violation.

Posted by: Bestie 1st Feb 2010, 10:08pm

Who are we to say who has a pacemaker and who doe`nt? some folk just get on with things after getting the implant...I`m just saying...police cannot know for sure if folk have an illness that the taizer would have an adverse reaction to. Some foilk even have a heart defect without knowing! No, I do NOT agree with taizers!

Posted by: wombat 2nd Feb 2010, 08:27am

wan guy from west australia is in hospital wie serious burns after bein tasered by the cops yesterday,another guy in brisbane died after bein tasered 28 times after a minor dispute wie neighbours.an aboriginal youth holding a small can wie petrol in it was set on fire after bein zapped by a police taser.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/mp/5959359/taser-video-reignites-overuse-debate/

Posted by: Bestie 2nd Feb 2010, 04:11pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 2nd Feb 2010, 08:25am) *
wan guy from west australia is in hospital wie serious burns after bein tasered by the cops yesterday,another guy in brisbane died after bein tasered 28 times after a minor dispute wie neighbours.an aboriginal youth holding a small can wie petrol in it was set on fire after bein zapped by a police taser.

My fears exactly!!!!!

Posted by: Jim D 3rd Feb 2010, 11:48pm

Just search for "Police Taser" on youtube. There are officer tasering themselves as part of training. If there was serious risk to life then they would not be doing that. It is mainly stuff from the USA, so the circumstances in which it would be used in the UK would differ considerably.

Posted by: fronswa 4th Feb 2010, 05:21am

QUOTE (Jim D @ 3rd Feb 2010, 11:46pm) *
Just search for "Police Taser" on youtube. There are officer tasering themselves as part of training. If there was serious risk to life then they would not be doing that. It is mainly stuff from the USA, so the circumstances in which it would be used in the UK would differ considerably.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSYlxzCHvKg

Posted by: fronswa 4th Feb 2010, 05:35am

QUOTE (Jim D @ 3rd Feb 2010, 11:46pm) *
Just search for "Police Taser" on youtube. There are officer tasering themselves as part of training. If there was serious risk to life then they would not be doing that. It is mainly stuff from the USA, so the circumstances in which it would be used in the UK would differ considerably.


Hey Jim, let's see a video of you getting tased.

Seriously!

Seeing as you're so in favour of it.

I'll do it if you do.
And that's a promise. cool.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 4th Feb 2010, 06:33am

QUOTE (Jim D @ 4th Feb 2010, 12:46am) *
Just search for "Police Taser" on youtube. There are officer tasering themselves as part of training. If there was serious risk to life then they would not be doing that. It is mainly stuff from the USA, so the circumstances in which it would be used in the UK would differ considerably.

Have you ever watched David Copperfield sawing himself in half on Youtube?

Posted by: glasgow lass 4th Feb 2010, 06:31pm

Awk Jim dae'yi really think the police would taser themselves wae the same amount of voltage that they wid tased me'n yoo blink.gif

Posted by: GG 4th Feb 2010, 10:10pm

This story was covered in the mainstream press and TV news today, with reaction from the following:

Scottish Lib Dem leader Tavish Scott wanted to know what involvement the Scottish government had with the pilot scheme:

QUOTE
"When Tasers were put on trial in England, within the first year, they'd been used 600 times – 34 children were zapped with 50,000 volts," he said during question time at Holyrood.

This is the slippery slope to every officer in Strathclyde carrying a Taser gun."

However, First Minister Alex Salmond tried to avoid any responsibility by claimeing that the introduction was a police operational matter:

QUOTE
"I think it would be appropriate if we allow the Chief Constable of Strathclyde to have his pilot studies to analyse the results. Then we can come to an informed decision – as opposed to Tavish Scott's, I think, unwise speculation about what he thinks the results might be."

Strathclyde Chief Superintendent, Bob Hamilton, said:

QUOTE
"The three-day Taser training is the exact same training as the firearms officers get in relation to Tasers. We don't want to dilute the training, it's a very important matter."

Finally, Amnesty International expressed "dimay" at the move, and issued a full statement through Scottish Programme Director for Amnesty International, John Watson:

QUOTE
"Amnesty recognises the very difficult job police officers have to do. We don't oppose the use of Tasers, but they must only be used by a limited number of highly-trained specialist officers, who are responding to genuinely life-threatening or very dangerous situations.

As well as being excruciatingly painful, Tasers are potentially lethal weapons which have already been linked to numerous deaths in north America and that's why wide deployment without adequate training is a dangerous step too far for Scottish policing.

We believe that Strathclyde Police should urgently review their position and ensure that Tasers remain in the hands of a small number of fully-trained officers capable of making what could be a life-or-death decision. It is not just a matter of how to use a Taser, but when."

It's fair to say that our police set the standard when it comes to policing around the world. Our forces have always prided themselves on 'policing by consent' rather than 'compliance by pain'.

But introducing Tasers into the day-to-day engagement with the public risks is creating a seismic shift in our policing culture Widespread and routine deployments have led to numerous cases of abuse in countries like Canada and the United States.

We have not seen any cases of abuse in Scotland - suggesting that our system of restricting Taser use to specially-trained officers works. And if it works, why change it?"

GG.

Posted by: GG 4th Feb 2010, 10:17pm

The poll is still open to those who have not yet voted:


http://www.onlinecasinoextra.com/

GG.

Posted by: wellfield 4th Feb 2010, 10:34pm

To me,this is a no brainer!..Obey the law or suffer the consequences!!!....The streets belong to the tax paying and Law abiding citizens...the children and the elderly...not to scum who have no respect for other peoples rights,and the scum know what to expect when they break the Law on the Land!

Posted by: wellfield 4th Feb 2010, 10:37pm

Just noticed ''City Centre"..why there only.

Posted by: Jim D 5th Feb 2010, 01:39am

QUOTE (GG @ 4th Feb 2010, 10:08pm) *
...
Strathclyde Chief Superintendent, Bob Hamilton, said:

We have not seen any cases of abuse in Scotland - suggesting that our system of restricting Taser use to specially-trained officers works. And if it works, why change it?"

Finally, Amnesty International expressed "dimay" at the move, and issued a full statement through Scottish Programme Director for Amnesty International, John Watson:

"Amnesty recognises the very difficult job police officers have to do. We don't oppose the use of Tasers, but they must only be used by a limited number of highly-trained specialist officers, who are responding to genuinely life-threatening or very dangerous situations.

As well as being excruciatingly painful, Tasers are potentially lethal weapons which have already been linked to numerous deaths in North America and that's why wide deployment without adequate training is a dangerous step too far for Scottish policing.
...

GG you're playing the devils advocate. lol

Amnesty International quoting North America? Why not quote England? There should be enough statistics to formulate an opinion of how it has been handled in Britain so far - or have there been no real incidents of serious injury or deaths. North America an extremely large area compared the size of Great Britain!

Amnesty International should check out Strathclyde Police intentions before making stupid quotes. Assurances have been given that appropriate training would be provided.

I'm not usually a fan if our 1st Minister but he has actually said something sensible for a change. He will probably reserve the right to blame the "Westminster Government" if the pilot goes wrong.

As for the rubbish about ruling by consent? What does that actually mean? If an officer has to use force against a person then that is certainly not with that persons consent. To me it's just another way of asking the police to stay under equipped to deal with todays violence without a proper deterrent. A police officer is no longer allowed to give a person a piece of his mind - that is deemed incivility. If any of us had occasion to have a grievance with another person then we would certainly feel justified in giving them a piece of our mind. If a person is in the wrong an officer should be allowed to make it abundantly clear, possibly alleviating the situation of giving them a fix penalty ticket. Instead, the officer goes down the "non-conflict" route, behaves politely and "whaps" the person with a ticket. Who wins? Nobody! The person has a financial penalty and the officer has paperwork - but it was all done in the most civilised fashion!

Unfortunately, it's the way of today - don't speak to your neighbour about a problem which has occurred between you - that could cause conflict. Instead, phone the police, spend 10-20 minutes telling them about your trivia then cause the police officer to attend at your neighbours door, leaving the neighbour wondering why you felt you could not have approached them without involving the police. The neighbour then goes "tit-for-tat" until it becomes ridiculously out of control. The officer gets fed up with the bickering, the regular calls to both addresses, so they call in the Council Mediation Team to speak with both parties, only to find out that it all began when one of then blocked a driveway for 10 minutes - 6 months ago! Is this an over-exaggeration? NO! Ask you local police officer, he will confirm that he deal with this scenario EVERY day!

That's me now off my high horse. lol

Posted by: Jim D 5th Feb 2010, 01:45am

QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 4th Feb 2010, 06:29pm) *
Awk Jim dae'yi really think the police would taser themselves wae the same amount of voltage that they wid tased me'n yoo blink.gif


Why not?

Posted by: glasgow lass 5th Feb 2010, 02:54am

Jim I think that the police are using each other for a wee bit of target practice and of cource out of curiosity they want to know what it feel like to tasered, are they daft or whit!

Posted by: glasgow lass 5th Feb 2010, 03:23am

QUOTE (glasgow lass @ 5th Feb 2010, 02:52am) *
Jim I think that the police are using each other for a wee bit of target practice and of cource out of curiosity they want to know what it feel like to tasered, are they daft or whit!

oops Jim! why not because I am sure it would hurt like hell.

Posted by: klingon 5th Feb 2010, 03:49am

QUOTE (*amclpreston* @ 30th Jan 2010, 05:55am) *
I'm very much not in favour of increasing the abiliities of police to commit violence by remote control.

I strongly disagree with arming the cops with these things-for a good reason-If some crabbit cop in Glasgow-and there are a lot of THEM-decides to fire a taser gun at me-he just killed me!-I have a pacemaker and a notoriously weak heart-a slight shock from the ht lead on a car knocked me out cold and made my ticker fibrillate-so imagine what a Taser would do!-Glasgow cops are notorious for not listening to anyone anyhow.My oldest son was attacked by a bunch of thugs in Union st-ran over to a cop car who were WATCHING this happen and shouted for help-result? they arrested MY SON! for breach of the peace-for asking for help! I am an ex cop (Canada) and went to court with him-the cops claimed they could not see the attack because of a bus shelter,and lifted my son for shouting at them-they wern't interested-so much for protect and serve eh?-and to give these lazy donut munchers a Taser?
not on my shift buddy!

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 5th Feb 2010, 10:57am

QUOTE (klingon @ 5th Feb 2010, 04:47am) *
-I have a pacemaker and a notoriously weak heart-a slight shock from the ht lead on a car knocked me out cold

I was undoing the generator on a car and touched the the engine with the spanner I was using ... the ring on my finger was melted into my finger! Hospital wanted to amputate but a doctor, somewhere else, saved it.
I can understand why you don't agree with Tasers Klingon. (I have a cat who bites out of fear and uncertainty.) Our cop's are armed out here but they can be trusted and they can be argued with; within reason of course.

Posted by: Jim D 6th Feb 2010, 01:32pm

QUOTE (klingon @ 5th Feb 2010, 03:47am) *
I strongly disagree with arming the cops with these things-for a good reason-If some crabbit cop in Glasgow-and there are a lot of THEM-decides to fire a taser gun at me-he just killed me!-I have a pacemaker and a notoriously weak heart-a slight shock from the ht lead on a car knocked me out cold and made my ticker fibrillate-so imagine what a Taser would do!-Glasgow cops are notorious for not listening to anyone anyhow.My oldest son was attacked by a bunch of thugs in Union st-ran over to a cop car who were WATCHING this happen and shouted for help-result? they arrested MY SON! for breach of the peace-for asking for help! I am an ex cop (Canada) and went to court with him-the cops claimed they could not see the attack because of a bus shelter,and lifted my son for shouting at them-they wern't interested-so much for protect and serve eh?-and to give these lazy donut munchers a Taser?
not on my shift buddy!


I'm sure most people could relate a similar incident, no matter which city or country they reside. Are we then to assume from one incident that all officers are the same as the ones involved in the bad experience?

Posted by: Jim D 6th Feb 2010, 01:49pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 5th Feb 2010, 10:55am) *
I was undoing the generator on a car and touched the the engine with the spanner I was using ... the ring on my finger was melted into my finger! Hospital wanted to amputate but a doctor, somewhere else, saved it.
I can understand why you don't agree with Tasers Klingon. (I have a cat who bites out of fear and uncertainty.) Our cop's are armed out here but they can be trusted and they can be argued with; within reason of course.[color="#FF0000"][/color]


Again, the arguement folds. Everyone talks about the UK policing model because firearms are not as prevailant yet you trust you armed cops in the country you reside. I'll bet there are common situations where an officer used his/her firearm in circumstances which were later deemed inappropriate - usually down to poor judgement of the situation. The officers in Europe don the riot gear at the drop of a hat and do not mess about. When it happens in the UK? There's a national enquiry! Should the UK officers not be afforted protection when faced with a potentially violent or life-threatening situation?

As recent as several months ago, German football fans clashed with police in Glasgow City Centre. 3 officers ended up in hospital. So that's okay? I read recently that 1400 police officers in Strathclyde were assaulted last year, surely something needs to be done to protect them.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 6th Feb 2010, 05:40pm

About 15 years ago one of the Bader-Meinhoff gang was shot in the back near the point of his arrest on a railway line in a train station. The Bader -Meinhoff gang had been responsible for several murders under their Rotte Armee Faktion (RAF) politic. This is the only recollection which I have of a copper (or FBI equivalent in Germany; the BKA BundesKriminalAmt, where a national enquiry was held over a suspect shooting.
On the several occasions where I had a police gun trained at close range, including extremely close range, at my person. I had no fear of being shot by error. The policemen involved were in total control of the situation and are fully trained in all aspects of being armed and facing armed suspects or criminals.
I think some of your short arsed Shuggies from Shettleston might be of the wrong caliber to be issued weapons of any description. I did vote for the police being issued Tasers in your land but simply because they do not carry guns, which I think they should. Having Followed the course of this thread though, I'm beginning to think maybe that the wee Glasgow bobbies should stick to knife proof vests and batons. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Jade Jones 7th Feb 2010, 04:36pm

As I understand it the main reason for deploying these weapons is that official police figures show a rise in days taken off by police officers who have received injuries while on duty. A simple question though - can we trust official police statistics:

QUOTE
When climate camp protesters descended on the site of the Kingsnorth power station for a week-long summer demonstration, the scale of the police operation to cope with them was enormous.

Police were accused of using aggressive tactics, confiscating everything from toilet rolls and board games to generators and hammers. But ministers justified what they called the “proportionate” £5.9m cost of the operation, pointing out that 70 officers had been injured in the course of their duties.

But data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act puts a rather different slant on the nature of those injuries, disclosing that not one was sustained in clashes with demonstrators.

Papers acquired by the Liberal Democrats via Freedom of Information requests show that the 1,500 officers policing the Kingsnorth climate camp near the Medway estuary in Kent, suffered only 12 reportable injuries during the protest during August.

The Home Office has now admitted that the protesters had not been responsible for any injuries. In a three-line written answer to a
parliamentary question, the Home Office minister Vernon Coaker wrote to the Lib Dem justice spokesman, David Howarth, saying: “Kent police have informed the Home Office that there were no recorded injuries sustained as a result of direct contact with the protesters.”

Only four of the 12 reportable injuries involved any contact with protesters at all and all were at the lowest level of seriousness with no further action taken.

The other injuries reported included “stung on finger by possible wasp”; “officer injured sitting in car”; and “officer succumbed to sun and heat”. One officer cut his arm on a fence when climbing over it, another cut his finger while mending a car, and one “used leg to open door and next day had pain in lower back”.

The above extract comes from a Guardian newspaper article from 2008:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/dec/15/kingsnorth-climate-change-environment-police

JadeJ.

Posted by: droschke7 8th Feb 2010, 01:45am

After living in Germany for 21 years where the Polizei are all armed, I only ever met one person who had been shot by them. The silly Buggar was a drunken squaddy who had knocked out a Policeman and taken his gun. When the second Policeman came around the corner and ordered him to put down the gun, he waved it about like a kiddy playing in a Western and said quote "Come and get it Copper". Needless to say the Polizei don't fool about, he shot him in the stomache and calmly walked over and picked up the gun. When asked the Policeman said he was aiming at the guys arm.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 8th Feb 2010, 02:46am

You can't argue with that, can you?

Posted by: Rab 8th Feb 2010, 11:37am

QUOTE (droschke7 @ 8th Feb 2010, 01:43am) *
After living in Germany for 21 years where the Polizei are all armed, I only ever met one person who had been shot by them. The silly Buggar was a drunken squaddy who had knocked out a Policeman and taken his gun. When the second Policeman came around the corner and ordered him to put down the gun, he waved it about like a kiddy playing in a Western and said quote "Come and get it Copper". Needless to say the Polizei don't fool about, he shot him in the stomache and calmly walked over and picked up the gun. When asked the Policeman said he was aiming at the guys arm.

Current British police firearms training would not accept that officers excuse. Here, officers are told that they must aim to the body (its virtually impossible to deliberately hit a limb) to bring the offender down. 'Unfortunately' this usually involves a fatal wound.
In my police career, I would have welcomed one of those tasers on a couple of life-threatening occasions when all I had was a 14" long bit of wood! When you are faced with a guy brandishing a Samurai sword in a street, the last thing you worry about is his welfare!

Posted by: wombat 8th Feb 2010, 08:50pm

rab wrote:Here, officers are told that they must aim to the body (its virtually impossible to deliberately hit a limb) to bring the offender down.
canny agree wie yie their rab ah've been ah member of a pistol club shooting pistols for 15 yrs an if i coodny hit an arm or leg at 25 mtrs ahd pack it in ,some of the wimmen in oor club are a much better shot than me .awright aw the wimmen then wub.gif

Posted by: Jim D 8th Feb 2010, 09:59pm

Wombat, I've seen the way people in pistol club behave. They have tripods for their guns, fancy sights and hair triggers. How can you miss? lol Try playing it for real - miss and you might be dead! Hit the biggest target! That way you do not have any worries about where the "stray bullet" has gone after it missed the arm.

Posted by: wombat 9th Feb 2010, 07:31pm

QUOTE (Jim D @ 8th Feb 2010, 09:57pm) *
Wombat, I've seen the way people in pistol club behave. They have tripods for their guns, fancy sights and hair triggers. How can you miss? lol Try playing it for real - miss and you might be dead! Hit the biggest target! That way you do not have any worries about where the "stray bullet" has gone after it missed the arm.

Naw, naw jimD nunna they fancy sights at oor club ,open sights only, never seen a pistol mounted on a tripod ah think U meant the spotting scope. As fur stray bullets,a hostage situation in south australia went wrong when a bullet passed thru the offenders neck and hit the hostage in the arm, both victims survived. Cheers M8.

Posted by: Dylan 12th Feb 2010, 08:50am

Tasers are not a " Non lethal " alternative to guns, they are an alternative.

The Police have their share of nutters as has been confirmed recently and these nutters would use them indiscriminately.

Over 400 people were killed in America last year with Tasers and they have even been used against children.

IMO introducing them would escalate violence and a child will die.

To high a price .

Posted by: Patter Merchant 12th Feb 2010, 05:07pm

This is yet another example of political correctness gone mad!

Removing the height restrictions from the police forces across Scotland has resulted in a huge growth in midget bobbies struggling to see over the top of their own starched uniforms. How can a 5 foot police officer impose his authority when he barely reaches the shoulder of your average ned?

Let's have a return to sense in police recruitment and forget about hurting the feelings of the vertically challenged middle-class career cop.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 12th Feb 2010, 05:09pm

If I was a copper you'd be Tazed now. rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: wombat 12th Feb 2010, 10:17pm

dylan wrote:Tasers are not a " Non lethal " alternative to guns, they are an alternative.

The Police have their share of nutters as has been confirmed recently and these nutters would use them indiscriminately.

as happened in queensland last year poor bugger wis tasered 28 times
read sumwhere at the autopsy his liver had shown signs of bein COOKED and was stiill hot.

Posted by: Rabbie 12th Feb 2010, 11:07pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 12th Feb 2010, 10:15pm) *
dylan wrote:Tasers are not a " Non lethal " alternative to guns, they are an alternative.

read sumwhere at the autopsy his liver had shown signs of bein COOKED and was stiill hot.

That's fosters lager fur ye.

Posted by: Dylan 15th Feb 2010, 03:53pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 12th Feb 2010, 10:15pm) *
dylan wrote:Tasers are not a " Non lethal " alternative to guns, they are an alternative.

The Police have their share of nutters as has been confirmed recently and these nutters would use them indiscriminately.

as happened in queensland last year poor bugger wis tasered 28 times
read sumwhere at the autopsy his liver had shown signs of bein COOKED and was stiill hot.

They should have given him an onion .!

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 15th Feb 2010, 04:10pm

Must have been torture, eh?

Posted by: Jim D 17th Feb 2010, 10:12pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 12th Feb 2010, 10:15pm) *
dylan wrote:Tasers are not a " Non lethal " alternative to guns, they are an alternative.

The Police have their share of nutters as has been confirmed recently and these nutters would use them indiscriminately.

as happened in queensland last year poor bugger wis tasered 28 times
read sumwhere at the autopsy his liver had shown signs of bein COOKED and was stiill hot.


I keep making the same reference - this is Scotland NOT the U.S., Canada or Australia! Very large countries. In each of them - firearms are carried by Police officers. As for the person who was tasered 28 times? Aye right! the next comment was even better - "liver showed signs of being cooked and was still hot!" When did the Post Mortem (english) take place? Did the cops have their own patholigist with them? lol

Posted by: Jim D 17th Feb 2010, 10:21pm

I've carried out a quick google on "tasered 28 times"
result - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/18/2601290.htm

The data within the weapon showed that it had been activated 28 times - it does not record that the person was tasered 28 times. The officer states the person received 3 trigger activations. It lis also stated in the article that the officer appears to have been honest in his account of the incident.

To be fair, as recent as last month, it has been established that the current was activated more than 20 times. They are now investigating a possibility of a malfunction.

At least the weapon records the amount of activations. A handgun does not! The taser is used in life-threatening situations, as an alternative to a gun. A gun is a lethal weapon, constructed to kill. If it does not then there is a problem with the operator.

Posted by: wombat 17th Feb 2010, 11:17pm

huh.gif widda been next day ahd assume jimd every shot is recorded on the tasers 28 had been 'fired' swit it sedd in the papers /news ower here it cood only happen in queensland the police state and the most corrupt ,nae surprises therr tongue.gif hold the onions

Posted by: rumcdonald 19th Feb 2010, 04:03am

I am a Glasgow Scot living in Canada since 1968. Re the new Taser guns... god help all you "Glesga drunks". If you get "too cocky" your life will be wiped out in a second. Think twice about this... if you want a long life. These Tasers are very dangerous, and if you "besotted youngsters" want any life at all..after your teenagehood... you will be careful not to be drunk in front of an officer of the law. If you have any medical "issues" whatever, this dangerous TASER will wipe you out... forever. Think about it. There have been hundreds of deaths here in North America due to the use of Tasers on " intoxicated" people. BEWARE of your excessive boozing... or you may well end up in your local cemetery. Not a good idea!!!! Ruth

Posted by: GG 19th Feb 2010, 08:07pm

I understand your concern rumcdonald, and quite a few other on here have expressed similar concerns. On researching this issue a bit, I found out that Tasers can be fitted with audio and video capability to both monitor potential misuse, and to capture information as evidence of a crime.

QUOTE
TASER CAM

The Taser Camis an option for use with any Taser X26. It does not change any of the existing functions of the Taser device. The Taser Cam with its microphone and sensitive camera, adds to the Taser X26 the ability to record audio and video, even in low light environments. It is also rechargeable.

The Taser Cam comes with PC software that downloads deployment records and audio/video files and stores them in a searchable library.

http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERCAM.aspx

Would fitting this device to a Taser alleviate concerns?

GG.

Posted by: GG 19th Feb 2010, 08:23pm

... Actually, judging from another news article today, the cameras on the Tasers might be redundant, as the city centre is now awash with 400 newly-installed cameras:

QUOTE
Glasgow city centre rolls out 400 cameras following successful trial

It is estimated that the Night Zone initiative has so far prevented 700 crimes, amounting to savings of £500,000.

Glasgow Community and Safety Services (GCSS), an organisation set up by Glasgow City Council and Strathclyde Police, was keen to provide the city’s three million visitors and locals alike with a safe environment to socialise. So it created the Night Zone, a partnership initiative that is designed to help residents and visitors get home quickly and safely from a night out in the city.

Full story here:
http://www.bapcojournal.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1613/Glasgow_city_centre_rolls_out_400_cameras_following_successful_trial.html

GG.

Posted by: klingon 20th Feb 2010, 07:11pm

QUOTE (Jim D @ 6th Feb 2010, 01:30pm) *
I'm sure most people could relate a similar incident, no matter which city or country they reside. Are we then to assume from one incident that all officers are the same as the ones involved in the bad experience?

Unfortunately I have to say that especially in Glasgow,the cops treat everyone as a threat,don't listen to a thing people say to them,and have a generally bad attitude to the public-I personally have been threatened with being lifted for disagreeing with 5 foot nothing of a midget cop over parking! when he didn't even look at my dash for my disabled permit!-move or your lifted was his reply-so much for good public relations,after making a complaint and giving this idiots patch number to a friend of mine who has a LOT of scrambled egg on his polis bunnet an apology was eventually given,but why in the first instance was there a need to apologise-can the cops not treat everyone with a bit more dignity and respect?-they might actually get some back!

Posted by: DavieBoy 21st Feb 2010, 07:47pm

THE LOUSY COP…..

Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I fit neatly into the category where you've placed me.
I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterized, classified, grouped, and always typical.
Unfortunately, the reverse is true. I can never figure you out.

From birth, you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, if they do anything bad I'll take them away then you're shocked when they identify, then associate with my traditional enemy... the criminal!
You accuse me of going to easy on criminals..until I catch your kids doing wrong.
You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day,
but point me out as lazy for having one cup.
You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting
my meals with your troubles.

You go mental with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you.
You know all the traffic laws...but you've never gotten a single
ticket you deserve.
You shout "IDIOT" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint.

YOU CALL IT PART OF MY JOB IF SOMEONE STRIKES ME, BUT CALL IT POLICE BRUTALITY IF I STRIKE BACK !
You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your
doctor how to take out an appendix, yet you are always willing to give me pointers on the law and telling me how to do my job.

You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose from anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye.

You yell that something's got to be done to fight crime, but you
can't be bothered to get involved.
You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps
save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many
hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and
rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book,
but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your
life depends on me or one of my buddies.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me the lousy cop!

I don't know, says it all really. dry.gif

Posted by: rumcdonald 22nd Feb 2010, 08:24pm

Rumcdonald again from Canada. Re the taser gun, I watched a well made documentary last night about the general use of these things, and undoubtedly, there will be deaths in Glasgow.
Over here, they are used on belligerent people, which describe many young people in Britain who are getting "soused out of their skulls" with their out of control binge drinking.
There is now a movement in the USA to arm females with tasers which is odd, because they all have guns over there anyway. Not police women, but women who just want protection from predators, but that will get out of control. The female tasers are pink, and look just like staple guns. They are even having "Taser parties" as in "Tupperware parties". Wonder if this will become popular in Canada...and then maybe Britain. Boggles the mind. Ruth

Posted by: Jim D 25th Feb 2010, 08:07pm

I have very recently been informed that the tasers supplied to the cops in Glasgow are powered by 2 AA batteries! I do not know how much power the batteries produce.

I'm also told that some tasers worldwide have a power of 50,000 volts but some have only 1500 volts.

Posted by: wombat 25th Feb 2010, 10:04pm

3 volts jimD

Posted by: bilbo.s 25th Feb 2010, 10:29pm

The differences between British police and those abroad has always struck me. OK we all know the big one is the wearing of guns but there are others,which wonder if anyome else realizes.

Police here in Spain .in US for instance, are more part of the community e.g. when they need to eat or drink they do so in a cafe, bar or restaurant with everyone else. Here in Spain they are also often seen having a blether in the street .

I don´t claim this is significant but it is worth thinking about. The police in these countries are armed but I do not feel threatened. We once had to climb over some bren guns in a campsite bar near Barcelona, as the local Guardia Civil had their breakfast. They all said "Buenos días" by the way and they all say "Hola" if they are in a bar for coffee.

The idea that police should not be familiar with the public, because it might prejudice their attitudes to an infringement of the law, seems out of favour here. Maybe they have their prioirities right.
Just a theory.

Posted by: GG 25th Feb 2010, 10:43pm

Some very interesting points indeed.

The Herald has just published a story about moves by Liberal Democrat justice spokesman Robert Brown to challenge the decision by Steve House, the chief constable of Strathclyde Police, to routinely issue Tasers to beat officers (the subject of this topic). Mr Brown is reported as saying:

QUOTE
Taser use in Scotland’s police forces should be a policy issue and not an operational issue as the current First Minister seems to think. He and his Government must step up to their responsibility and make sure those who are deployed with Tasers have training.

“The current scheme being piloted by Strathclyde Police, where they have armed 30 police officers with Tasers after only three days’ training, seems to be a decision that has only been taken by the chief constable.

“It certainly wasn’t a decision made by the police board and even less so by the Scottish Government.”

The LibDem stance is directly opposed to that of Scottish Government Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill, who told Holyrood yesterday that the issuing of stun guns was an operational matter for police, not one of government policy.

Read The Herald story here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/crime-courts/call-to-block-police-taser-trial-1.1009403

GG.

Posted by: GG 7th Mar 2010, 11:41pm

A related article from New Zealand – mentions Glasgow:

Police need more protection from the thuggery in today’s society
http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=16343

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 10th Mar 2010, 03:49pm

Not only but also ...
...It seems the Taser isn't enough as the Home Office might be considering the introduction of a rifle version of the Taser,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1255094/A-commuter-diabetic-coma-new-weapon-immobilise-suspect-20-seconds-The-shocking-truth-Tasers.html


Posted by: GG 13th Apr 2010, 06:07pm

The trial period, due to start today, has been delayed. According to a spokeswoman for Strathclyde Police the delay is due to problems in putting together an effective and wide-ranging evaluation group. The spokeswoman said:

QUOTE
"It is crucial to the pilot project that the best possible evaluation group is in place with representation from other partner agencies.

There has been a delay in identifying the individuals who will undertake this and it was felt that it would not be in the interest of the public, our officers or the evaluation process to allow a pilot project to commence without this in place."

Amnesty International has repeatedly asked Strathclyde Police to rethink the trial introduction of the powerful stun guns. The Human Rights group claims that "since June 2001, more than http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/taser-abuse/page.do?id=1021202 in the United States have died after being shocked by police Tasers".

John Watson, director of Amnesty Inter­national in Scotland, said:
QUOTE
"This is a particularly concerning move on the part of Strathclyde Police. Tasers are potentially lethal weapons which cause excruciating pain.

Strathclyde appears to be applying a very arbitrary approach to this rollout. In only giving the Taser to officers who want it, they appear to be handing it out like sweets. That’s exactly the way in which this weapon should not be rolled out.

We're urging Strath­clyde to reconsider these plans and put a stop to this six-month pilot."

Police say that the weapons are essential to combat the growing numbers of assaults on personnel in Glasgow, with up to six officers being assaulted each day in the city.


http://www.onlinecasinoextra.com/

GG.

Posted by: benny 13th Apr 2010, 09:05pm

I don't think all our cops are angels by any means, but it ain't a job I'd like to be doing nowadays. Gun crime was almost unheard of in Scotland even 30 years ago, but is becoming more and more an everyday happening, and knife crime is totally out of control. Naw, the polis deserve tae be protected daein their jobs.

Anyway, if they can build cameras and usage recorders into the device, surely they can build in safeguards which would prevent it from being used continuously or more than a specified number of times within a given timeframe?

Posted by: GG 20th Apr 2010, 08:43pm

The trial has now begun.

Regular beat cops (with three days training in their use) are now carrying Tasers from today in two pilot areas in Strathclyde: Glasgow and Rutherglen/Cambuslang.

Chief Constable Stephen House said:

QUOTE
"Our use of Tasers is very clearly contained. Officers must perceive that either they or a member of the public is going to be subject to violence before they can use a Taser."

Amnesty International has raised serious concerns over the trial use of the 50,000-volt stun guns.

Amnesty's Scotland Programme Director John Watson said:
QUOTE
"This is a particularly concerning move on the part of Strathclyde Police.

Tasers are potentially lethal weapons which cause excruciating pain. We have always insisted that these weapons are used only in very limited circumstances by police officers who undergo intensive, ongoing and rigorous training.

Strathclyde also appears to be applying a very arbitrary approach to this rollout. In only giving the Taser to officers who want it, they appear to be handing it out like sweets. That’s exactly the way in which this weapon should not be rolled out. Tasers should only be given to officers who are best-trained and those who really require it to carry out their job."

GG.

Posted by: Melody 21st Apr 2010, 06:34am

Och it's nothin' tae worry aboot, there's only the two policemen in Glasgow City Centre anyhow. laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 21st Apr 2010, 07:09am

That's two more than in my last village in Aberdenshire- the nearest polis was 12 miles away.

Should have given us all Tazers!

Posted by: Ned Kelly 23rd Apr 2010, 02:06pm

This is very worrying - if you think I am going into Glasgow city centre on a Saturday night now you've got to be kidding. It was bad enough avoiding the drunks, now decent people will have to also watch out for the uniformed officers drunk on their own power and self-importance.

Edinburgh here I come!!!

Posted by: GG 17th May 2010, 09:06pm

An important development to this story today:

QUOTE
Illegal Glasgow Taser trial in must be halted, says Amnesty

The Scottish Government is under pressure to end a police trial of Taser guns after a report commissioned by a human rights body suggested that the scheme was potentially illegal.

Under the six-month pilot scheme that began last month, 30 beat officers have been issued with the electro-shock weapons, which can incapacitate a suspect by delivering 50,000 volts at distances of up to 11m (35ft). The guns have been linked to nearly 300 deaths in Canada and the US, and, before the trial, only specialist firearms police were allowed to carry them. ...

Full story at The Times Online:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7129143.ece

QUOTE
Police Taser gun trial 'unlawful'

A human rights charity has accused Scotland's largest police force of not acting lawfully in arming some of its beat officers with Taser stun guns.

Amnesty International has written to the Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill asking for the Strathclyde Police scheme to be halted immediately. ...

Full story at the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8686436.stm

And in a related development:

Tam Baillie, Scotland’s Commissioner for Children and Young People, has claimed that there are no restrictions or safeguards to protect children from being 'Tasered'. He too has called for the trial to be halted immediately. He added:

QUOTE
"Beat officers are being equipped with these potentially lethal weapons with no safeguards in place to protect children and no firm evidence of the physical and mental impacts of their use on under-18s.

Tasers are potentially lethal – they have been linked to hundreds of adult deaths – and the UN has made it clear that their use on children is unacceptable.

Arming beat officers with Tasers brings them into our communities, making them part of everyday life, and risks them being used in situations when lesser force would suffice. Police and Scottish ministers cannot wait until there is a Taser tragedy involving a child to take action on this."

If you have not yet voted in the poll for this story, you can still do so here:


http://www.onlinecasinoextra.com/ http://www.99polls.com/

GG.

Posted by: weebren3 18th May 2010, 04:33am

NOOOOOOOOOO they should not have tasers,they have been banned in some countrys,the death rate was high with the use of those.I mean police dont know what they are up against some times,but they are trained,and know the danger,they took the job and still they want to enable themselves with more brutality,why not give them rifles get it over with.I mean there is the forces who are trained in more danger than them,glasgow are full of trigger happy police when they have A bad day. Sorry I am not happy with that. They took An oath to protect and serve in good judgment.

Posted by: benny 18th May 2010, 03:23pm

Aye, but they didnae take an oath tae let themselves be hammered by a bunch of wee neds and dae nothin aboot it. As you say, why stop at Tasers? Give them real guns, as long as they're properly trained in their use.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 18th May 2010, 09:38pm

And bullet proof boots ... in case they shoot themselves in the foot. tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: wombat 18th May 2010, 10:19pm

rolleyes.gif there wis several serious injuries and a few fatalities among police in the first few weeks when south australian police were first issued sidearms (S&W revolver) in one of the poilce fatalities it was found to be an argument over drugs /territory ,havin used revolvers furr over 15years ,they would be the most difficult gun to"accidently" shoot oneself or someone else with having so many safety features ,so police should be drug tested furr a start .been several deaths over here fae tazers saw a guy gettin zapped jist furr runnin oan tae a fitba pitch oan the news ,funny part is when did humans suddenly become CATTLE. gie thim an inch an aw that . treat people better then we widny need tazers .

Posted by: GG 18th May 2010, 10:42pm

Hi wombat, just checked for the footage on YouTube, and here it is:


The incident happened earlier this month at the Philadelphia Phillies' Citizens Bank Park. The fan was 17 years old.

GG.

Posted by: GG 18th May 2010, 10:51pm

An extract from the Scottish Parliament Business Bulletin No. 83/2010, Tuesday 18 May 2010, of a motion or amendment published for the first time:

QUOTE
S3M-6327 Robert Brown: Legal Status of Strathclyde Police Taser Pilots — That the Parliament notes with concern the legal analysis commissioned by Amnesty International indicating that the Strathclyde Taser pilot is unlawful; notes that under this pilot 30 frontline police officers were supplied with Taser weapons following a three-day training course; further notes that this legal analysis concluded that Scottish ministers are required to give written authorisation before any new scheme to arm police officers can take place; understands that no such authorisation has been obtained for the Strathclyde pilot; further notes the legal advice given to Amnesty International that while firearms legislation is reserved to the UK Parliament, control over firearms policy and the delivery of existing legislation has been specifically devolved to the Scottish Ministers; recognises that this is at odds with the assertion by the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, made during a debate on the Strathclyde pilot on 25 February 2010, that "Since the matter is a reserved responsibility, this Parliament has no locus to intervene, and the decision about how best to apply the existing legislation is an operational matter for each police force"; recognises that it was the Home Secretary who signed off on issuing Tasers to frontline police officers in England and Wales; believes that extending the use of Tasers beyond firearms officers represents a shift in policy, not an operational decision, which requires ministerial sanction and which has serious human rights implications; further believes that there is need for proper debate on the implications of further arming police officers, and, in light of the doubts about the legal position, calls for the Strathclyde pilot to be halted in order that these issues be resolved.

GG.

Posted by: wombat 18th May 2010, 11:13pm

QUOTE (GG @ 18th May 2010, 10:45pm) *
Hi wombat, just checked for the footage on YouTube, and here it is:

...

The incident happened earlier this month at the Philadelphia Phillies' Citizens Bank Park. The fan was 17 years old.

GG.

thanx GG thats the wan ah seen oan telly and thats done in full view of everyone ,have seen other footage of tazerings an it looks like torture tae me especially footage of brutal bashing of an unconcious car accident victim by 4 police in US,ah dont think incidents like that wid go down too well in glasgow or wie its people. merr befitting nazi death camps.

Posted by: GG 20th May 2010, 09:21pm

I found the following story (published today) because it refers to Glasgow; however, it is Glasgow in Montana, USA. The news article tells of the injuries received by a Chief Deputy while receiving Taser training. In the US it is customary for law enforcement officers to be 'Tased' (in controlled circumstances, with medical personnel present) as part of the Taser training process; the theory presumably to demonstrate how powerful the effect of the stun gun is on a fit, healthy adult. The police officer in the news story received horrific injuries as a rsult of this 'demonstration' Tasing.

QUOTE
Deputy’s arms, shoulders injured in Taser training
Muscles convulsed severely enough to fracture several bones

A Roosevelt County sheriff’s deputy is recovering at home two weeks after he broke both his arms during a training session in which he was zapped by a stun gun.

“I took the Taser, and when it was over I couldn’t move my arms,” Chief Deputy Jason Frederick said.

Frederick underwent surgery at St. Vincent Healthcare in Billings after breaking the humerus bones, in his upper arms, dislocating his shoulders and fracturing his shoulder sockets.

“The doctor in Glasgow told me it was the worst injuries to the shoulders he’d ever seen,” Frederick said. ...

Read the full story here:
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_17b8a952-63d1-11df-ab56-001cc4c002e0.html

GG.

Posted by: GG 27th Jun 2010, 04:18pm

Tasers in the news again today with Amnesty again questioning both the morality and the legality of the use of Tasers on Glasgow streets. John Watson, Scottish programme director for Amnesty International, said:

QUOTE
"You don't have things like this happening without public engagement.

But Strathclyde Police are unilaterally going ahead without it. We know lawyers are interested in the implications if someone is Tasered by an officer on this pilot scheme.

There is a very strong case to take legal action, regardless of what they have done. I'm very clear this pilot is unlawful. I believe if someone was Tasered they would win [a legal case].

... We've done a lot of research in other countries where Tasers are part of the police's equipment, such as the US, Canada, and Australia, and it's shoot first, ask questions later."

Also, lawyers are questioning whether police officers have immunity from prosecution where the use of weapons is disputed. See the article below for more information:

Lawyers take aim at police Tasers
http://business.scotsman.com/news/Lawyers-take-aim-at-police.6386277.jp

GG.

Posted by: droschke7 27th Jun 2010, 10:53pm

I haven't noticed any complaints from Amnesty about people attacking fire engines, Firemen/women or Policeman/women, and nothing about the thugs throwing molotv cocktails and bricks at Fire engines and personelle, but they are quick enough to complain about tasers.

Posted by: Jim D 29th Jun 2010, 10:26pm

QUOTE (GG @ 27th Jun 2010, 06:35pm) *
Tasers in the news again today with Amnesty again questioning both the morality and the legality of the use of Tasers on Glasgow streets. John Watson, Scottish programme director for Amnesty International, said:


Also, lawyers are questioning whether police officers have immunity from prosecution where the use of weapons is disputed. See the article below for more information:

Lawyers take aim at police Tasers
http://business.scotsman.com/news/Lawyers-take-aim-at-police.6386277.jp

GG.

The Police have never had ammunity from the use of force. It has been widely reported in the media when a police officer has used force and has ended up in court for allegedly using excessive force.
I can only assume that an officer will , as always, be required to justify his use of force when using tasers.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 30th Jun 2010, 12:29am

In the news over here at the weekend ... Two (armed with 9mm weapons) police officers in Hamburg went in to break up a disturbance on the street involving teenagers. One officer is in critical condition in hospital while the other received lesser injuries. Probably only allowed to use their weapons when other fire arms are present.
Tasers would have been handy though.
These guys are also husbands and fathers trying to protect the public or maintain order.
What's the betting the teenagers are too young to do time?

Posted by: Jim D 30th Jun 2010, 09:14pm

In the UK, if there is immediate danger to life, then an officer carrying a gun is entitled to shoot the perpetrator. Would this scenario have been such a situation? An officer now critically ill in hospital!

Imagine the outcry - police officer shoots innocent teenager!

Posted by: droschke7 30th Jun 2010, 10:36pm

I Lived in Gernmany for 21 years, Give the police proper guns and not these daft ideas. It works there why not here

Posted by: droschke7 30th Jun 2010, 10:37pm

Wish I could type that should have read I lived in Germany

Posted by: glasgow lass 30th Jun 2010, 10:42pm

laugh.gif got your drift

Posted by: GG 10th Jul 2010, 12:37am

A couple of opposing letters in the papers recently:

QUOTE
Taser trials without public approval indicate a tendency to policing by fear, not consent

The success of the Scottish Government’s No Knives, Better Lives initiative to reduce knife crime among young people illustrates the benefits of taking a non-confrontational, inclusive approach to tackling street violence, combining education and awareness.

In stark contrast, the taser pilot, which is currently running in areas of Strathclyde, is the antithesis of this youth crime initiative. Anecdotal evidence and the statistics quoted in your report show no strong evidence that arming ordinary beat officers with potentially lethal weapons, without effective training, is an effective way of tackling crime. In fact, just the opposite. What’s more, legal experts have concluded that lack of ministerial oversight renders it unlawful.

There is a strong tradition of policing by consent in Scottish law enforcement. Unfortunately, in the hastily-introduced Strathclyde taser initiative, we have seen a new way of thinking from Scottish policy-makers, one that steers away from approp­riate and measured responses in favour of policing by fear.

John Watson,
Progamme director for Amnesty in Scotland,
Amnesty International UK Section,


QUOTE
Taser trial is designed to protect the public

Amnesty International’s contribution to the debate about our Taser pilot is perhaps an example of the worst type of scare­mongering. It is inaccurate and designed to cause fear among the very public our officers work so hard to protect. The facts are clear. Strathclyde Police has more than 8,000 officers. Only 30 are taking part in the pilot scheme, which lasts for six months and is being fully and independently evaluated. The results will be presented to our own police authority and will also be made available to the public.

Amnesty might like to think this legal, limited, independently evaluated pilot scheme represents a shift away from policing by consent to policing by fear but it would be wrong. The pilot aims to look at the future role Tasers might play in protecting the public and our officers from violent attack. Amnesty has been noticeably quiet on this subject. We look forward to the day when its public comments centre on the human rights of the victims of crime, whom we try to protect, and our officers, who are injured doing their job, not on needlessly causing fear and alarm.

Rob Shorthouse,
Director of Communications,
Strathclyde Police HQ.

GG.

Posted by: GG 24th Jul 2010, 10:11am

Looks like the controversial Glasgow Taser trial could become a 'political football', with Labour and the Lib Dems in favour of halting the roll-out to clarify the legal position. On the other hand, SNP ministers have repeatedly said that Taser use by beat police officers is a matter for consideration only of individual police forces, and that there is no need for further legal clarification. Amnesty International has itself repeatedly expressed very serious concerns about the legality of the trial.

Making matters more interesting is the fact that the Glasgow city councillor Stephen Curran is presently convener of the Strathclyde Police Authority (SPA). Mr Curran will battle against Nicola Sturgeon, SNP deputy First Minister, for the Glasgow Southside seat at next year’s Holyrood elections.

Mr Curran has been accused of 'lacking appetite' for a fight with Strathclyde's chief constable, Steve House, over the Taser trial.

QUOTE
... Several prominent SPA members have told The Herald they believe he does not have the desire for shaking up the relationship between the authority and Strathclyde Police for fear it could damage him electorally.

They claim Curran, who receives about £22,000 for the post, gave the authority assurances he would see out the post until 2012, while he claims he said only that it would be unlikely he would be selected for the 2011 Holyrood election.

He has also been accused of reneging on an agreement to put the Taser scheme through further legal checks for fear of upsetting the chief constable. Curran denies this and says his views have been misunderstood. ...

Full story here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/chief-constable-and-councillor-in-row-sparked-by-taser-feud-1.1043367

GG.

Posted by: GG 24th Jul 2010, 10:19am

The Lib Dem view, from Robert Brown MSP, quoted in May this year:

QUOTE
"Taser use in Scotland's police forces should be a policy issue and not an operational issue as the current First Minister and Justice Secretary seem to think. The SNP Government must not do a Pontius Pilate and wash their hands of this. They must take the policy responsibility for tasers.

In England it is the Home Secretary that signs off use of tasers amongst police forces and we want to see this happen in Scotland.

Blasting someone with 50,000 volts should be a last resort, to be used in limited circumstances and should only be carried by officers who have had proper training as firearms officers.

In the meantime, in the light of the doubts about the legal position, the taser pilot should be halted forthwith until the legal position is sorted out."

GG.

Posted by: Jupiter 24th Jul 2010, 11:41am

I worked the beat in north Glasgow for 20 years and faced many situations where the only protection I had was my hands feet and a bit of wood called a baton which incidentally was quite effective if aimed properly. Again the guidelines were not to strike the head of the attacker but concentrate on legs and arms. Now this is ok sitting in a class spouting off but when you are in a situation where you have to decide,is it me or him going down there is not much time for theory and split second decision taking is required. Hit him on the head and he will go down but he may be brain damaged or dead .Hit him elswhere with less effect it may be you who goes down badly injured or worse. AS LONG AS A PERSON (POLICE OR OTHERWISE) USES REASONABLE FORCE TO DEFEND THEMSELF AND THEY CAN JUSTIFY IT THEY HAVE THE LAW ON THEIR SIDE.
I believe the time has come whereby the availability of a taser to a beat officer in order to defend himself is justified. It is not a pleasant effect but Im sure that once the criminal element who have a mind to try it on with officers sample it there would be fewer assaults.
I think it would be very interesting to know if the academics who comment on these matters have ever sampled the delights of inner city GB on Saturday nights with a beat man and witnessed the raw hatred and violence that is now normal.

Posted by: GG 2nd Oct 2010, 10:45am

The Glasgow Taser trial was back in the news last month after figures showed that the number of assaults on Strathclyde police officers was falling fast. According to Amnesty International, the recently-available figures undermine the police case which was put forward for starting the 'flawed' trial, and the human rights group insists that the trial should be stopped immediately.

John Watson, Amnesty's programme director in Scotland, said:

QUOTE
Moves to provide ordinary patrol officers with Tasers places the capacity for extreme force into everyday policing and takes us away from the traditional Scottish model where force is used as a last resort.

Any move to issue Tasers to police officers should be accompanied by an explanation of why arming the police will improve the situation, and firm evidence that the proposals comply with human rights standards. The Strathclyde Police pilot fails on both counts.

Les Gray, of the police trade union, responded:
QUOTE
This argument beggars belief. One of my pet hates is that Amnesty International feels the need to get involved in this debate. It is very easy to pass judgement on something when you are sitting behind a desk. Amnesty’s attitude is outrageous.

Robert Brown MSP, Liberal Democrat justice spokesman, commented:
QUOTE
"The policy surrounding the use of Tasers should be a matter for ministerial direction as it is in England. The safety of police officers is paramount but the Amnesty report casts considerable doubt on the link between the safety of police officers and the use of Tasers."

Meanwhile, the Scottish Government is trying to avoid getting involved.

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 2nd Oct 2010, 12:26pm

Two weeks ago we had here; in Lörrach, SW Germany, the case of a woman; armed with an automatic and 300 rounds of ammo, a lawyer, who went on the rampage on an otherwise quiet Sunday evening.
Her score was 4 dead and some wounded including a policeman, shot in the knee, who was coincidently a patient in the hospital which was her main target. She had first killed her husband and her child and set her apartment ablaze before walking the few hundred meters to the hospital shooting wildly at passers-by on her way. At the hospital she wounded two and fired off a magazine into a ward door before the police arrived and managed to put her down with a total of 17 shots into her body. She had planned all this a long time ago.
50 policemen had to have spiritual and psychological treatment as a result.
There are some instances where a Taser might be a useful tool for a policeman on duty but there are also instances where half the power of God on your hip is much more effective.
I'm all for the later.

Posted by: GG 2nd Oct 2010, 01:31pm

Thanks, THH, a sad story indeed.

One thing that must be remembered in this discussion is that the Strathclyde police force already has a number of highly trained, mobile firearms officers available at all times. These firearms officers have a range of non-lethal and lethal weaponary at their disposal, including Tasers. They are highly skilled in deciding which response is most effective.

Can we (or should we want to) rely on ordinary beat officers to exercise the professional judgement of firearms officers?

GG.

Posted by: auldbutcher 2nd Oct 2010, 02:34pm

Todays society scum bag gangs roam a boot in auld Glesga toon tooled up wie aw sorts o modern weaponry and the fact we are gien oor polis A WEE TOY THAT WILL GIVE THESE SCUM BAGS A WEE KICK COS THATS WHAT IT AMOUNTS TAE IS CAUSEN ANIMOSITY.

In this day an age please give oor police force an even ball park.

Ach am wasting my time cos the them that masquerade as politicians who are supposed tae take care o oor welfare canny even look efter the men and women who protect us i.e the Brit army second tae none and our police force, jasus scumbags can attack the ambulance service,the fire service, get caught an get a wee skelpt on the wrist me i'd send them tae heavy duty detention centres army style, the auld butch say's 30 year ago give me a job in a place like that an am telling you this chile would have showed them the error o there wies member the auld army sayin, jump and maist o these tuppey halfpenny gangsters wid ask how high.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 2nd Oct 2010, 03:24pm

QUOTE (GG @ 2nd Oct 2010, 02:33pm) *
One thing that must be remembered in this discussion is that the Strathclyde police force already has a number of highly trained, mobile firearms officers available at all times ...

Can we (or should we want to) rely on ordinary beat officers to exercise the professional judgement of firearms officers?

GG.

I read in the local newspaper report after the incident here that in Baden-Württemberg; the state where this latest incident took place ( I don't know if it applies in other German states) and where in recent times worse cases involving schools where disillusioned pupils armed with pump shotguns and automatic hand guns were the cause of multiple deaths among fellow pupils and teachers , that the normal police officers; although also armed, have been given courses of instruction in assessment and decision taking in shoot to kill situations where the protection of the public, and themselves, is deemed necessary.
It had been decided that if each serving officer was fully trained in this fashion then precious time and lives would be saved rather than waiting for specialist teams to be transported to wherever the problem was occurring.
This was the case in Lörrach but, sad to say, the ordinary copper is not trained in the mental aftermath of having to go home and turn on the telly in the comfort of his home and family after having taking out a deranged wife and mother or disillusioned school-kid with a pump-action shotgun.
In general the policemen here do receive a great deal of respect from the public and from the neds , probably due in greater part to the fact that they are openly armed but also due in part to the fact that to insult a police officer verbally carries an automatic visit to the local nick and a hefty fine to follow.
This is written.

Posted by: auldbutcher 2nd Oct 2010, 04:32pm

Jupe am a hunner per cent ahind you ,gg says can we trust oor polis tae use there judgement on when tae fire .or is it better tae wait fer the assistance o fire armed special forces.
Auld butch ses if there is a question mark agin any polis officers mental capabilitys then why should he be holding doon a job there in the first place .

Jupiter talks aboot him an his trusty tommy lawton ,yep jupe but that wis efn 20 years ago ,gonna ask you sumpkin, as a man used tae a wee bit o mayhem on the street ,ow wid you an yer trusty baton get on when there wis three handed dudes wie pickaxe haunels and bits o lead pipe assaultin you ,me ad hiv loved tae hiv picked oot my side arm an said make my day punk.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 23rd Feb 2011, 02:47am

Anybody find my TASER?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/and-finally-bizarre-real-life-stories-1862172.html?action=Gallery&ino=8

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 23rd Feb 2011, 03:02am

You cant make these up. Here's another one from the same source. laugh.gif

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/and-finally-bizarre-real-life-stories-1862172.html?action=Gallery&ino=23

Posted by: Dunvegan 23rd Feb 2011, 08:16am

Tasers are a matter of much soul searching by the "greens" and civil libertarians, always the first in line to defend the use of violence against the police and to protect those who would visit Jihad on the happy folks of Australia. I for one would be more than happy to be "Tazered" rather than stop a 9mm from a Glock.

Posted by: droschke7 23rd Feb 2011, 06:17pm

checked out the Links LOL yopu couldn't make that up could you

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 23rd Feb 2011, 11:17pm

I had to laugh at the poor sod in Redruth (Cornwall) just one of those days when he should have stayed in bed. rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: wee davy 23rd Feb 2011, 11:31pm

Don't forget - this was in the 'Duchy' folks wink.gif laugh.gif
It definitely wasn't that poor cornishman's day, right enuf.

Posted by: ionnsaigh 24th Feb 2011, 11:08am

QUOTE (Dunvegan @ 23rd Feb 2011, 07:39am) *
Tasers are a matter of much soul searching by the "greens" and civil libertarians, always the first in line to defend the use of violence against the police and to protect those who would visit Jihad on the happy folks of Australia. I for one would be more than happy to be "Tazered" rather than stop a 9mm from a Glock.


Aye an ye could take that a wee bit further, I for one would be more than happy being booked than Zapped. wink.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 24th Feb 2011, 11:39am

[quote name='ionnsaigh' date='24th Feb 2011, 12:31pm' post='346265']
Aye an ye could take that a wee bit further, I for one would be more than happy being booked than Zapped. wink.gif
[/quote

A stern talking-to would dae me. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 24th Feb 2011, 11:58am

Ah'd be happy with a wagged finger. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Dunvegan 26th Feb 2011, 08:46am

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 24th Feb 2011, 09:21pm) *
Ah'd be happy with a wagged finger. rolleyes.gif

Even ignored!

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 26th Feb 2011, 12:12pm

laugh.gif That especially. laugh.gif

Posted by: Dylan 27th Feb 2011, 07:45pm

Tasers are not a " Non Lethal " alternative to guns.

They are an alternative to guns..!!

Posted by: angel 27th Feb 2011, 08:38pm


....stun gun death Vancouver Airport.

Posted by: Dylan 27th Feb 2011, 09:48pm

Horrendous Angel.

Police will fire these things at people they would not fire a gun at !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even fire them at children in America.!

That demented man did not deserve the Death Sentence..

The Taser was the soft option .

If we give to to Glasgow Police the same thing could happen here.

Posted by: wombat 27th Feb 2011, 09:57pm

the SAME thing WILL happen dylan

Posted by: benny 28th Feb 2011, 12:11am

I don't know the whole story, but as far as I can see there is no proof that it was the Taser which killed this man. The person who took the video stated that the most disturbing thing about it was that one of the offficers pinioned the man's head to the ground, with his leg and knee. Isn't it possible that this is what killed him?

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 28th Feb 2011, 12:12am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 27th Feb 2011, 07:08pm) *
Tasers are not a " Non Lethal " alternative to guns.

They are an alternative to guns..!!


Sorry Dylan, Tasers might be used in specific cases where the use of a gun might be an unwarranted OTT application of lethal force but Tasers are definitely not an alternative to guns.

Posted by: angel 28th Feb 2011, 02:51am

QUOTE (benny @ 27th Feb 2011, 10:34pm) *
I don't know the whole story, but as far as I can see there is no proof that it was the Taser which killed this man. The person who took the video stated that the most disturbing thing about it was that one of the offficers pinioned the man's head to the ground, with his leg and knee. Isn't it possible that this is what killed him?

Benny,Here in Canada I believe that there are at least 80 deaths attributed to the use of tasers by police officers and as far as I can tell there was'nt a leg or a knee involved in any of these deaths but then if you want to play devils advocate then maybe that would make for more discussion.

I remember a while back reading about a study being conducted by an American university regarding Taser's and it stated amongst other findings that tasers contributed to what is called "Lazy cop syndrome" and I think watching the video that is exactly what we are seeing, there were more than enough officers present to be able to contain this poor soul but they chose to take the easy way out and zap him twice " a bit taser happy if you ask me".

These are just my thoughts on this incident and I won't becomming involved in any arguments over this horrible affair. Just make sure you are not going to any strange land that uses Taser's, should you wish to visit with your mother.

Posted by: Dylan 28th Feb 2011, 08:51am

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 27th Feb 2011, 11:35pm) *
Sorry Dylan, Tasers might be used in specific cases where the use of a gun might be an unwarranted OTT application of lethal force but Tasers are definitely not an alternative to guns.

Their manufactureres market them as such.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 28th Feb 2011, 01:21pm

I voted "Yes" on the poll at the beginning of this topic after giving what I thought to be careful consideration to the matter. This decision was based on the idea of policemen, in this day and age, still being armed with a baton, in a risky situation.
In the year that has gone since the topic was opened I have seen/read enough video/news reports to show that my vote was misplaced; even when at the time of voting I stated that there is nothing more authoritative than being faced with a man in uniform with half the power of God on his hip (which makes one seriously consider ones next move).
I've had the occasional 240 volts kick me of the stool now and again but I'd sure enough hate to be at the receiving end of a Shall I Taser him, or is it your turn? "lazy cop" kind of a situation.
When a copper points a gun at you and shouts "STOP", the language is international; you raise your hands and stop.
What happens after that is still open but generally you don't get killed. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: auldbutcher 28th Feb 2011, 03:18pm

City centre police tae get taser's scruffy bugger's i use Gillette disposables my self 12 in a packet good clean shave every time .


Whit wacko.gif blink.gif

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 17th Aug 2011, 12:57pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/17/man-dies-taser-arrest-cumbria

Posted by: Jupiter 17th Aug 2011, 01:47pm

I would say that unless you are standing face to face with an angry man/woman who refuses to listen to reason,fails to desist from whatever criminal activity they are up to,eg brandishing a weapon etc it is hard to understand the position of the police officer.
In a long career in the north of Glasgow I had three occasions when I would have gladly used a Taser on a suspect.
I was almost taken out with a butchers knife plunged through the fabric of a door I was standing at by a deranged male who had failed to take medication and had consumed alcohol.I pictured myself on a slab.He was eventually overpowered by baton blows to his head and shoulders which in itself carried a great risk of injury to him.
Two other occasions I was attacked by male persons,headbutted and bitten.Again the suspects were overpowered by baton blows when I got assistance.
Had I been equiped with a Taser I would have had no hesitation whatsoever in using it and would have stood up in any court to justify it.
When its a "Me or him" situation self preservation will always kick in.
Every officer should be equiped wit Tasers.

Posted by: droschke7 17th Aug 2011, 02:13pm

Let's face it, if the Police in London had been able to use Tasers or even bean-bag rounds or water cannons, the riots would never have happened never mind spread to other citys. While on that subject when are the BBC (English Broadcasting Service) going to realise that riots in 4 english city's are not a UK or British problem they are an English problem, if the same had happened in Scotland they would have been called a Scottish problem and not a UK/British problem so why not treat the English the same? I been getting phonecalls, e-mails , Facebook messages from friends and relatives all over the world that think I was in danger and asking if I was OK. I had to explain to them that the nearest riot was over 200 miles away, and that due to the weather and the friendly people, we never have riots in Glasgow

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 17th Aug 2011, 02:13pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 17th Aug 2011, 02:33pm) *
... When its a "Me or him" situation self preservation will always kick in.

Canny argue wi' that Joop; cop or no' cop. wink.gif

Posted by: GG 6th Dec 2013, 07:26pm

Not in Glasgow, but in the news today ...

QUOTE
Teenage boy Tasered by police in grounds of school in Devon

A teenage boy with learning difficulties has been Tasered by police in the grounds of a school owned by the exclusive Priory group.

Devon and Cornwall police were called to Chelfham senior school, near Plymouth in Devon – which specialises in teaching children with learning difficulties including behavioural, emotional and social difficulties and autism – after reports of an alleged assault on a teacher.

The force confirmed officers used a Taser during the incident at 9.20pm on 1 December, which involved three boys, a 15-year-old and two 14-year-olds, after reports that knives were brandished at officers.

The day and residential school for boys and girls aged seven to 19 is owned by the Priory group, a private company known for its addiction clinics favoured by celebrities.

It is in the village of Bere Alston in the Devon countryside, close to Dartmoor national park.

All three boys involved in the incident were jointly charged with affray and will appear at Plymouth magistrates court on 20 December.

A spokeswoman for the school said it was "an isolated incident on the school grounds and as legal proceedings are ongoing it would be inappropriate to comment further".

GG.

Posted by: Jupiter 6th Dec 2013, 08:03pm

Dont let the age of the offenders deflect from the fact they were allegedly brandishing knives.
Him or me kicks in.Taser use appears to be reasonable force in my reading of the post.

Posted by: Dylan 6th Dec 2013, 08:36pm

They were children with learning difficulties. !!

The age of offenders are of the utmost importance to me.

Tasers can/do kill.!

Posted by: Betsy2009 6th Dec 2013, 09:10pm

I hate to say it but children can/do kill too.

Posted by: dugald 6th Dec 2013, 09:52pm

We've had fatalities in Canada from tasering. I think it important that police officers have a strong means of protection without resorting to guns. On the other hand, we hire husky young people to protect us from rowdy punks and the like. Were tasers really necessary for the police to use tasers in this case? I'm not sure.

We're told "that knives were brandished at officers.". This reminds me of an occasion when I got called into the school where my son was enrolled, and that the vice principal had caught my 15 year old son trying to break into the library with a knife (happened during a school unpopular teachers' strike). I dashed up to the school imagining all sorts of terrible situations. When I heard the story, it turned out that he had been trying to pick the lock with one of these wee 1.5" long tartan-handled key-chain decoration that I 'd brought back from Scotland for him. Not at all what I had been led to expect. Nope, I wouldn't have liked it if he had been tasered for that.

There were more than one police officer involved in the is event in Devon and they were confronted by three boys. Nah, I think the taser stuff was an overreaction. I think the cops should have relied more on muscle power than taser guns. I say this well aware that I don't know exactly what did happen... and I can imagine circumstances justifying the use of weapons by the police.

Earlier in the year an 18 year old boy was shot dead in Toronto for brandishing a knife threateningly on an eventually empty street car. He was shot dead by an officer who was one of a posse of no less than 8 officers responding to the emergency call... shot the boy dead without even having tried to board the vehicle. Yes, shocking, eh? The officer who pulled the trigger was suspended as a result of a great public outcry. The case has not yet been settled.

A police officer's lot is not just directing traffic.......

Posted by: Dylan 6th Dec 2013, 10:00pm

If Police have Tasers Dugald they will use them. Some will react worse than others.

I should think that a few big Polis could handle unruly children and Tasers are lethal.


Glad you are here Dugald as I usually plough a lone furrow. rolleyes.gif

If I said the black cat was black ,some would say some black cats are black but not all black cats are black .!!


Rubber off a dogs back to me. biggrin.gif

Posted by: kenb 6th Dec 2013, 11:10pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 6th Dec 2013, 10:17pm) *
If Police have Tasers Dugald they will use them. Some will react worse than others.

I should think that a few big Polis could handle unruly children and Tasers are lethal.


Glad you are here Dugald as I usually plough a lone furrow. rolleyes.gif

If I said the black cat was black ,some would say some black cats are black but not all black cats are black .!!


Rubber off a dogs back to me. biggrin.gif

awe dylan you are the flip side to our arguments we need you and your likes to help us to see between the linesdont take offence its not meant you may not in our eyes be right but n yours you will be its called argument/ banter merry christmas and heres to a more agreeable new year

Posted by: Guvinboay 7th Dec 2013, 12:16am

Taser me, laser me, but don't 9mm me.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 7th Dec 2013, 05:34am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 6th Dec 2013, 10:53pm) *
They were children with learning difficulties. !!

The age of offenders are of the utmost importance to me.

Tasers can/do kill.!


Your humanatarisim is commendable Dylan but it often gets in the way of common sense. knives have killed a lot more people than tasers ever will and age doesn't come into it, I was reading a story a few days ago about a 13 year old girl that has been charged with rape and murder.

Posted by: Jupiter 7th Dec 2013, 08:18am

Dylan,in Scotland a child can be a person of 16 years.Now you only need to look at some of the kids at Sec school and I can assure you there are plenty big strong 16 year olds out there,many with attitude.
Put yourself in a situation where you have a group of aforementioned 16 year olds,out their heads on dope or drink,wanting to cause mayhem,with or without weapons.You are the Lone Ranger sent to deal with the situation, now tell me honestly what you would prefer on your hip to defend yourself,a twelve in bit of wood or a taser?
It could be the difference between you going home that night.........

Posted by: Betsy2009 7th Dec 2013, 09:01am

Let's not forget that "The teacher was treated at the scene by paramedics for chest and head injuries before being taken to Derriford Hospital."

These kids weren't playing games. They were prepared to do injury to people.

I do agree that there will be the odd trigger happy police officer but the police in general do a great job. Perhaps a lower voltage taser would be the answer?

Posted by: Dylan 7th Dec 2013, 10:11am

"now tell me honestly what you would prefer on your hip to defend yourself,a twelve in bit of wood or a taser"

Same argument could be used for arming Police with Guns. ?

I think Tasers are the thin edge of the wedge. !

Tasers can Kill and we do not Kill children.!

Posted by: angel 7th Dec 2013, 12:58pm


Posted by: Betsy2009 7th Dec 2013, 01:21pm

That is disgusting. All those police against one unarmed man. You'd think they could just have grabbed him but I don't even see why that would have been necessary other than to get him out of the building.
For heavens sake they should have called for an interpreter. As they were in an airport a call over the PA system might have brought one quickly.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 7th Dec 2013, 03:47pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 6th Dec 2013, 08:53pm) *
Tasers can/do kill.!


But nowhere near as many as Knives do.

Posted by: angel 7th Dec 2013, 04:46pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 7th Dec 2013, 04:04pm) *
But nowhere near as many as Knives do.


To say the least ,.... Knives have been around a helluva lot longer
than Tasers . I would think ever since maybe steel or whatever
the material is used to make knives ,
so do we now have to deal with taser /gun happy tootin fruitin cops .
C.mon give us a break angry.gif

Posted by: Jupiter 7th Dec 2013, 04:53pm

Dylan , Have you ever been in a real "Squeaky Bum Situation?" I can assure you it is very unpleasant at the time and can cause sleepless nights going over the "What if" scenario.
Cops are quite adept at self defence and attack but sometimes circumstances dictate that they will be overcome and thats when they need all the help they can get.There are some bad bad people out there with a pathological hatred of the police and when their red mist descends.......
So what would be your self defence of choice? A Taser or a 12inch lump of wood?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 7th Dec 2013, 06:29pm

QUOTE (angel @ 7th Dec 2013, 05:03pm) *
so do we now have to deal with taser /gun happy tootin fruitin cops .
C.mon give us a break angry.gif


In an ideal world we wouldn't have any need for the police to carry tasers, but we do not live in an ideal world and anything that can make police officers and the public more safe has to be a good thing, and if it can be proven that a police officer has abused their position with a taser then they should feel the full weight of the law.

I know who i would choose if i had a choice between meeting two policemen carrying tasers or two neds carrying knives late at night on a deserted street.

And i doubt your plea of "C'mon give us a break" would deter a knife welding attacker determined to get your purse Angel.

Now that really would make you angry..............Providing you survived the attack of course.

Posted by: angel 7th Dec 2013, 06:46pm

Joops ...............
This man came to Canada to visit with his mother , He came from Poland,
but was confronted by a bunch of laser happy cops and of course was killed ' just check the video , " Certainly not a squeaky bum situation "

the coroners' report said he died of heart failure , and it was a homicide
were no one was to blame , " so go figure "
Meanwhile these officers were charged with perjury , trying to cover up their part in this murder and the officer in charge " did commit suicide . "
God help all of us when it comes to law enforcement ,
Whittling twigs for tools for protection or today's Lasers used at the hands of incompetents .

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 07:02pm

sad.gif http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/coroner-condemns-police-over-taser-death-of-brazilian-student-roberto-laudisio-curti/story-e6frg6nf-1226516456875

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 07:09pm

sad.gif http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2232708/Roberto-Curti-21-pinned-ground-handcuffed-tasered-pack-police.html



a pack of THUGS yes.gif

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 07:14pm

sad.gif http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2012/03/23/factbox-taser-related-deaths-australia

Posted by: Jupiter 7th Dec 2013, 07:17pm

Wombat, a most disturbing episode and a sad waste of life.The episode appears to have been fully investigated and hopefully appropriate action will be taken.

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 07:30pm

sad.gif http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-13/lawyer-slams-police-for-tasering-14yo/4369976 wacko.gif

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 07:32pm

angry.gif http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYCEQkGyvlM



yes.gif a pack of nazi thugs

9 of em torturing an aboriginal man

Posted by: Dylan 7th Dec 2013, 08:16pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 7th Dec 2013, 05:10pm) *
Dylan , Have you ever been in a real "Squeaky Bum Situation?" I can assure you it is very unpleasant at the time and can cause sleepless nights going over the "What if" scenario.
Cops are quite adept at self defence and attack but sometimes circumstances dictate that they will be overcome and thats when they need all the help they can get.There are some bad bad people out there with a pathological hatred of the police and when their red mist descends.......
So what would be your self defence of choice? A Taser or a 12inch lump of wood?


An Uzi 9mm.?

Posted by: Dylan 7th Dec 2013, 08:19pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 7th Dec 2013, 04:04pm) *
But nowhere near as many as Knives do.



No kiddin !

Posted by: Dylan 7th Dec 2013, 08:22pm

The black cat is still black. yes.gif

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 08:30pm

sad.gif before (homeless man)Kelly thomas


 

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 08:32pm

angry.gif after'' serve and protect' were finished(poor fella died later)


 

Posted by: wombat 7th Dec 2013, 08:34pm



link to above story

http://rt.com/usa/california-police-kelly-thomas-608/

Posted by: JAGZ1876 7th Dec 2013, 09:24pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 7th Dec 2013, 08:39pm) *
The black cat is still black. yes.gif


No kiddin !

Posted by: john.mcn 8th Dec 2013, 01:43am

I think we need to distance ourselves from police when it comes to squeaky bum situations, i myself have been in situations like this and i can tell you i was quite prepared to do what was needed to walk away, this obviously showed because i'm here to say this without ever demonstrating it..Of course i'm not a law enforcement officer team handed and i see no difference between someone getting tazered and getting beat on by officers.
Every vid i've seen where the suspect has been unarmed and been tazered is assualt in my books, it's nothing more than getting hit with a stick for getting out of line, the police aren't judge and jury and shouldn't mete out punishment when there is no danger to themselves or others. We stopped corporal punishment in schools years ago, it's time we stopped it it out on the streets too.

Posted by: Dylan 8th Dec 2013, 09:37am

When I seen your name as the last Poster on this Thread I thought, " Aw naw, another wan" !

A good Post.!!

Posted by: wombat 8th Dec 2013, 06:06pm

yes.gif hear hear

Posted by: Bluey 11th Dec 2013, 12:25am

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 8th Dec 2013, 02:00am) *
I think we need to distance ourselves from police when it comes to squeaky bum situations, i myself have been in situations like this and i can tell you i was quite prepared to do what was needed to walk away, this obviously showed because i'm here to say this without ever demonstrating it..Of course i'm not a law enforcement officer team handed and i see no difference between someone getting tazered and getting beat on by officers.
Every vid i've seen where the suspect has been unarmed and been tazered is assualt in my books, it's nothing more than getting hit with a stick for getting out of line, the police aren't judge and jury and shouldn't mete out punishment when there is no danger to themselves or others. We stopped corporal punishment in schools years ago, it's time we stopped it it out on the streets too.

If you have ever had to take down a demented, dangerous"bam" loaded up with drink and drugs, feeling no pain and being impervious to all attempts at subjugation by conventional means, that without applying a high degree of harmful intervention is near on impossible. Police have every right to go home to their families at the end of their shift intact. If that means applying batons and tasers so be it. The police here in Australia are armed with 9mm automatics and tasers. If thats what it takes to command respect and protect the public then so be it.

Posted by: GG 17th Apr 2014, 08:33pm

From earlier this month...

QUOTE
Arden Taser cop backed by watchdog

The actions by the officer who discharged the device against the 28-year-old man have been described as "proportionate and justified" by an independent ­police watchdog.

A report by the Police ­Investigations and Review Commissioner concluded that the officer made the right decision to prevent the man injuring himself or the officers at the scene.

The incident occurred in the Arden area of Glasgow in the early hours of Saturday, February 8.

The man, who was violent and drunk and threatening to harm himself, was left unharmed and did not require medical attention. ...

Full story here...
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/taser-cop-backed-by-watchdog-158315n.23869413

GG.

Posted by: rush 18th Apr 2014, 10:19am

Some of the comments beggar belief. One poster calls the cops "http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=18098&view=findpost&p=3649261" when they beat up an aboriginal man and then reply's his choice of protection would be a uzi 9mm? in another post he answers. Double standards.

While these reports are disturbing, they are in a minority and a shame that people will tar the millions of good police officers round the world with the few bad ones who eventually get arrested.

Posted by: Tally Rand 24th Apr 2014, 12:16am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 7th Dec 2013, 08:33pm) *
An Uzi 9mm.?

If you ever saw the damage a 9mm Uzi can do....... Taser me any time.

Posted by: Tally Rand 24th Apr 2014, 12:29am

QUOTE (rush @ 18th Apr 2014, 10:36am) *
Some of the comments beggar belief. One poster calls the cops "http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=18098&view=findpost&p=3649261" when they beat up an aboriginal man and then reply's his choice of protection would be a uzi 9mm? in another post he answers. Double standards.

While these reports are disturbing, they are in a minority and a shame that people will tar the millions of good police officers round the world with the few bad ones who eventually get arrested.

In Melbourne in the late 90s there were over 20 gun deaths all related to a single criminal fraternity. As an offshoot criminal cops were taken to trial and I was selected for the jury pool. To cross the road from the justice administration head quarters, 12 at a time We were surround by no fewer than 12 heavily armed police and court protection officers. Prior to naming the cops involved in his drug empire, Carl Williams managed to get himself murdered on camera in a high security jail cell by his best friend. Yes a minority of bad cops still to this day serve themselves to the detriment of society. Saying that however, does not detract from the fact that when faced with armed and dangerous druggies, the police are condemned if they shoot them and now there are those who refer to them as thugs and fascists if they use stun guns instead of 9mm bullets.

Posted by: Scotsman 1st May 2014, 11:19am

On the BBC today.... is this how people should be treated??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27225260

Posted by: Dylan 1st May 2014, 12:11pm

Absolutely disgraceful.

The PC should be dismissed and convicted of assault.

Posted by: wombat 16th Jun 2014, 09:53pm

unsure.gif http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/woman-loses-eye-after-being-shot-with-stun-gun-by-police-taser-instructor/story-e6frg6nf-1226820340880 unsure.gif

Posted by: wombat 16th Jun 2014, 09:58pm

unsure.gif unsure.gif


Posted by: Dylan 17th Jul 2014, 08:34am

MacAskill said the people of Scotland want their police to be Armed .

Working with the scary Stephen House they have sneaked them in by the back door !.

Armed Police are now walking our streets and it is their intention to roll this out .

House also, with MacAskill's blessing wants to ban drinking and close Pubs ,at all street,, park events, football games/carnivals etc.

They have met more resistance to this than from arming the Police ?.

I fear we are sleep walking into an authoritarian society.

This manifests itself in the OTT " Security " measures implemented for " The Games " !.

Posted by: Scotsman 17th Jul 2014, 09:14am

Totally agree about MacAskill.... if the guy is not up to the job because he is a feartie then he should be turfed out right away.... if he is not then Salmond and the SNP should be held to account for their weakness.

Just read this in the Record today.... absolutely scandalous!!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/bobbies-guns-justice-secretary-says-3871810

Posted by: ktv 17th Jul 2014, 12:19pm

I know this pic is the US version of police (I couldn't find a uk one) but it just shows the increasing militarisation of the police forces over the years.

theres is absolutely no justification for armed police to attend minor incidents and it will only increase the chances of something going wrong.
they tried to justify it (at first) in rural areas by saying they had to back up to rely on but when they would normally reach for a baton or taser they could now as easily reach for a gun. only seemed to have happened after "police Scotland" was created too so I think macaskil has to pull his finger out and reign in House before some one gets killed by some frightened copper.

agree too that the "security" measures for the CW games take zero account of the locals in the area and can only lead to more animosity towards the police.


 

Posted by: Dylan 18th Jul 2014, 07:38am

The decision for our Police to carry Guns, is a one man decision.

Stephen House.

MacAskill refuses to rein him in..

Salmond says it is an " Operational matter " to be made by House and only House .

We can only hope that opposition will continue to grow and his authority curtailed.

A decision of this magnitude surely can not be made by an unelected person.?

I have written to my MSP and MP.!


Posted by: bilbo.s 18th Jul 2014, 08:00am

I completely agree that such a decision should not be made by one man, whether elected or not.

Having lived for 7 years now in a country where all police, including local police, are armed, as is the norm in many countries, I must add that it does not worry me at all.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 18th Jul 2014, 12:42pm

Like you; and many other board members, Bill I live in part of Europe other than GB where police, custom officers and border gaurds are armed and this gives me no worries at all. That said, I have also lived and worked in ME countries where particular armed police and security guards gave me certain cause for concern simply because the person with his finger on the trigger showed a distinct nervousness. This of course warns one to be very careful: don't suddenly reach into your pockets, but it clearly emphasises that the wrong man is on the job.
It's no use training some one to use a weapon of any description if that person hasn't been fully trained on how and when to use it.
I don't know if competence tests are part of an officer's training curriculum in the use of, or being equiped with, weapons but it seems in a lot of instances not to be the case.
Personally I have nothing against armed police; in fact I prefer it, but I'd be happy to know that they undergo a test of competence to certify that they are at least up to carrying half the power of God on their hip rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Dylan 20th Jul 2014, 09:25am

Police Scotland's stop and search rate is 9 times that of NYPD.

Stephen House, MacAskill and Salmon conspired to bury this stat.

More evidence of the authoritarian state the SNP would impose by the back door.

Story from Independence supporting Sunday Herald.

BTW.

I have noticed that " The Guns " issue is growing despite the SNP supporters trying to ignore it.!

Posted by: john.mcn 20th Jul 2014, 10:02am

QUOTE (Scotsman @ 1st May 2014, 11:36am) *
On the BBC today.... is this how people should be treated??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27225260


I missed this first time around, can you imagine the reaction if the victim was a patient, it was a hospital and a nurse jabbed something into him after he chucked his underpants. The nurse would not only be sacked but he/she would be removed from the NMC register and would lose their career.
The sort of people who support the police doing this would be up in arms about the nurse demanding charges be brought.
Nurses are threatened and assaulted quite regularly, the same sort of people who have constant run ins with the law also require the use of hospitals more than the average person, and unlike police officers the only protection they have is a fob watch or a pen.. Is there popular support for nurses to carry pepper spray or tazers, no and i dont think there is popular support for police to carry guns either.

Posted by: ktv 20th Jul 2014, 10:08am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 20th Jul 2014, 10:42am) *
Police Scotland's stop and search rate is 9 times that of NYPD.

Stephen House, MacAskill and Salmon conspired to bury this stat.

More evidence of the authoritarian state the SNP would impose by the back door.

Story from Independence supporting Sunday Herald.

BTW.

I have noticed that " The Guns " issue is growing despite the SNP supporters trying to ignore it.!


not every post on here is about the snp and youl notice that most of the "snp supporters" on here have posted in this thread.

you don't even know when people are actually agreeing with you for god sake.


pure eejitry at its finest wacko.gif

Posted by: Dylan 20th Jul 2014, 10:29am

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 20th Jul 2014, 11:19am) *
I missed this first time around, can you imagine the reaction if the victim was a patient, it was a hospital and a nurse jabbed something into him after he chucked his underpants. The nurse would not only be sacked but he/she would be removed from the NMC register and would lose their career.
The sort of people who support the police doing this would be up in arms about the nurse demanding charges be brought.
Nurses are threatened and assaulted quite regularly, the same sort of people who have constant run ins with the law also require the use of hospitals more than the average person, and unlike police officers the only protection they have is a fob watch or a pen.. Is there popular support for nurses to carry pepper spray or tazers, no and i dont think there is popular support for police to carry guns either.


The video won't play but I get the gist of your Post and agree with your sentiments.

Posted by: Dylan 20th Jul 2014, 10:39am

QUOTE (ktv @ 20th Jul 2014, 11:25am) *
not every post on here is about the snp and youl notice that most of the "snp supporters" on here have posted in this thread.

you don't even know when people are actually agreeing with you for god sake.


pure eejitry at its finest wacko.gif


Whit !!

Who ?

Posted by: ktv 20th Jul 2014, 10:44am

twit !!

you .? tongue.gif

Posted by: ktv 20th Jul 2014, 10:47am

the video can be seen http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pc-lee-birch-tasered-naked-3478269


Posted by: JAGZ1876 20th Jul 2014, 11:08am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 20th Jul 2014, 10:42am) *
Story from Independence supporting Sunday Herald.


Did none of the other 36 Anti Scottish independence papers bother with this story then?

Posted by: ktv 20th Jul 2014, 11:19am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 20th Jul 2014, 12:25pm) *
Did none of the other 36 Anti Scottish independence papers bother with this story then?


ever since he declared he wasn't going to visit the indy thread again hes been trying to turn every other thread into the same subject wacko.gif

Posted by: Dylan 20th Jul 2014, 11:55am

No, that is CJ's job.!

Posted by: Tally Rand 21st Jul 2014, 10:16am

QUOTE (ktv @ 17th Jul 2014, 12:36pm) *
I know this pic is the US version of police (I couldn't find a uk one) but it just shows the increasing militarisation of the police forces over the years.

theres is absolutely no justification for armed police to attend minor incidents and it will only increase the chances of something going wrong.
they tried to justify it (at first) in rural areas by saying they had to back up to rely on but when they would normally reach for a baton or taser they could now as easily reach for a gun. only seemed to have happened after "police Scotland" was created too so I think macaskil has to pull his finger out and reign in House before some one gets killed by some frightened copper.

agree too that the "security" measures for the CW games take zero account of the locals in the area and can only lead to more animosity towards the police.

The pictures here show an armed response officer dressed in a fashion common to all special police forces world wide. In the U.S.A. due to all powerful gun lobby the average police force is generally out gunned by whatever street gangs, militias or just plain school kids.

I have inadvertently been present during an armed robbery that went over my head until I saw the arrival of the police. During a bank robbery of my local bank in Melbourne , my friend also from Glasgow was wounded when he jumped in front of an old lady as the bandit for no reason other than that she was there opened fire on her. Do police need fire arms? While crims are willing to gun down old ladies in broad daylight in order to get some cash for drugs, booze or holidays then 100% yes.

Posted by: GG 6th Aug 2016, 09:15pm

QUOTE
Inquiry launched after man pepper-sprayed by police dies

Scotland’s police watchdog has launched an investigation after a man died in hospital the day after being pepper-sprayed by police.

The police investigations and review commissioner (PIRC) said Alan Hay, 50, from Dalbeattie, was rushed to hospital when he fell ill minutes before he was due to be checked in at Barlinnie prison the day after his arrest over a disturbance.

Police Scotland officers used a pepper spray incapacitant known as Captor PAVA during the incident, which took place on Monday.

It is the second recent death involving Police Scotland’s use of pepper spray. The force is under criminal investigation by the PIRC and the Crown Office after the death of Sheku Bayoh, who died last year as he was being held down on a pavement, seconds after being hit with pepper spray and CS gas. [...]

Full story here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/05/inquiry-launched-after-scottish-man-pepper-sprayed-by-police-dies

GG.

Posted by: Talisman 6th Aug 2016, 11:22pm

QUOTE (GG @ 6th Aug 2016, 09:15pm) *
Full story here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/05/inquiry-launched-after-scottish-man-pepper-sprayed-by-police-dies

GG.

Agitated violent offenders frequently raise their blood pressure, heart rate and overall detrimental situations to their health and the well being of others; others who are seldom accounted for when reports such as this come into the public arena. I have said it before. You can taser me, pepper spray me, hit me with a baton but for G-D's sake don't hit me with any 9mm bullets.

Posted by: GG 6th Aug 2016, 11:37pm

Thanks Talisman, in reference to your introductory phrase "agitated violent offenders", in direct reference to this case, apparently you are in possession of information about this specific incident that is not currently in the "public arena". Could you please let us know more about your source, and where/how we can perhaps corroborate your information?

GG.

Posted by: wombat 7th Aug 2016, 12:59am

angry.gif so using cattle prods on people is ok now ? how demeaning.

Posted by: Talisman 8th Aug 2016, 02:56pm

QUOTE (GG @ 6th Aug 2016, 11:37pm) *
Thanks Talisman, in reference to your introductory phrase "agitated violent offenders", in direct reference to this case, apparently you are in possession of information about this specific incident that is not currently in the "public arena". Could you please let us know more about your source, and where/how we can perhaps corroborate your information?

GG.

Incidents in Australia have caused ambulance and paramedic personnel to demand action be taken against those assaulting health professionals in the street, in ambulances and hospitals. Most if not all are in states of extreme agitation and paranoia. Even their companions are violently attacking professionals going to the aid of seriously distressed patients. This has been and is still being covered by media in Australia on an almost daily basis.

Last year alone in New South Wales 174 paramedics were assaulted. Some with a variety of weapons, knives, bats, broken bottles etc. Many of these miscreants were in obviously agitated states due to drink, drugs and a combination of both. It takes no medical experience to know (and I have blood pressures monitors at home as well as being monitored in hospital and having my blood pressure soar in reaction to pain and trauma.)

The internet is there, wont quote sources but the above was in a report on violence in the Sydney Morning Herald. The figures of traumatised attacks on police, paramedics, hospital personnel are well documented.

I don't suspect that physical reaction to traumatic incidents is confined to Australia but I am taking examples here in context of what I previously mentioned.

Posted by: Scotsman 18th Aug 2016, 03:54pm

Was just reading about the ex English footballer who was killed by one of these weapons at the hands of the police. Disgraceful that they should be being used!! mad.gif