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> Snp's New Drive For Scottish Independence
JAGZ1876
post 8th Sep 2016, 03:52pm
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QUOTE (flam @ 8th Sep 2016, 04:18pm) *
I am afraid that Jagz cannot accept the truth, he uses plenty of spin to try and turn the debate around..lol


Accept what truth and turn the debate around to what?
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DannyH
post 8th Sep 2016, 06:58pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 8th Sep 2016, 11:58am) *
One is a online survey, the other is a doorstep campaign to listen to peoples opinions about independence and not necessarily about EU membership.

It's not that confusing, is it? :unsure:


Hello Jagz

Thank you for your response. Let me emphasise that I am not trying to put you in a position to justify what the SNP is doing regarding a second referendum. All I am trying to explain is that I don't know what the purpose of the online survey is. I wouldn't have known anything about it if you hadn't posted the link to it.

Regarding the doorstep campaign, that opens up a lot of questions. I can't believe that the SNP is going to visit every home in Scotland. Nicola says she is going to hold conversations with the people of Scotland, via this campaign. So when knock comes to my door, will I be asked if I am elgible to vote in a second referendum? Who has the authority to say I have or have not? The reason I am concerned about that issue is the Alex Salmond thinks it was undemocratic for EU citizens to have been ineligible to vote in the EU referendum. So will the SNP include them in the door to door campaign?

Will we be divided into 'lower educated'' higher educated? Young, middle aged, or elderly as a previous survey did? The verdict being that the lower educated and elderly were less interested in the issue being surveyed. Completely ignoring the fact that not everybody wants to get involved in online surveys, and many elderly people have never used a computer or smart phone.

Please keep in mind, I am not asking you to answer any of my questions. The only people who can supply the answers are SNP politicians.

Thanks again for making me aware of the survey.

Regards

Danny
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Dykejumper
post 8th Sep 2016, 11:28pm
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Danny, we will get the results on St Andrew's day.My guess is that they will say there has been a significant increase in support for Independence, of course it will not be quite enough to get Indy 2 off La Sturgeon's table.She will be hoping that Brexit turns up something that just might give her the grounds to call for Indy 2 with a realistic chance of winning.
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JAGZ1876
post 9th Sep 2016, 09:50am
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 9th Sep 2016, 12:28am) *
Danny, we will get the results on St Andrew's day.My guess is that they will say there has been a significant increase in support for Independence, of course it will not be quite enough to get Indy 2 off La Sturgeon's table.She will be hoping that Brexit turns up something that just might give her the grounds to call for Indy 2 with a realistic chance of winning.


Looks like the SNP could have saved a lot of time, money and effort by simply asking what you think.
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Dykejumper
post 9th Sep 2016, 04:10pm
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She needs to keep her hardcore happy and this buys her more time.No doubt it will cost quite a lot
but the SNP have very generous supporters in that couple who won mega millions.
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JAGZ1876
post 10th Sep 2016, 10:17am
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 9th Sep 2016, 05:10pm) *
She needs to keep her hardcore happy and this buys her more time.No doubt it will cost quite a lot
but the SNP have very generous supporters in that couple who won mega millions.



But no "very generous supporters" with dodgy backgrounds as the Tory and Labour party have though. wink.gif
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*Billy Boil*
post 21st Sep 2016, 02:14pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 10th Sep 2016, 10:17am) *
But no "very generous supporters" with dodgy backgrounds as the Tory and Labour party have though. wink.gif

I see it as the only reason that the Scottish National Party exists is for the promotion and attaining of an independent Scottish nation: no other reason for it's existence makes sense.
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JAGZ1876
post 23rd Sep 2016, 12:33pm
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QUOTE (Billy Boil @ 21st Sep 2016, 03:14pm) *
I see it as the only reason that the Scottish National Party exists is for the promotion and attaining of an independent Scottish nation: no other reason for it's existence makes sense.


It's their whole raison d'Ítre Billy. thumbup.gif
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DannyH
post 23rd Sep 2016, 10:47pm
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QUOTE (Billy Boil @ 21st Sep 2016, 03:14pm) *
I see it as the only reason that the Scottish National Party exists is for the promotion and attaining of an independent Scottish nation: no other reason for it's existence makes sense.



The problem for me and, I am sure, many other Scots who want Independence, is that Independence for Scotland now has a different objective from the founders of the SNP.

My understanding is that the SNP was founded to free Scotland from English control.

Looking at the dictionary definitions of Independence, the above objective seems to fit in with the dictionary definitions, i.e.:

Freedom
AUTONOMY
SELF-RELIANCE
SELF-RULE
SELF-SUFFICIENCY

The modern day SNP politicians have moved the goal posts. For them Independence means Scotland must be part of the EU. If the UK had voted to remain in the EU, there would be no cry from the SNP for Independence.

They have ignored the fact that the EU referendum was a UK referendum. We weren't asked, do you wish to REMAIN in the EU and to LEAVE the UK? These are two seperate issues.

Danny Harris
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JAGZ1876
post 24th Sep 2016, 09:39am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 23rd Sep 2016, 11:47pm) *
If the UK had voted to remain in the EU, there would be no cry from the SNP for Independence.

Danny Harris


Who told you that Danny?
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john.mcn
post 24th Sep 2016, 10:41am
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The results in the EU referendum have given the SNP a reason to bitch that 'we wuz robbed', 'they lied' and other faux victim soundbites. With no EU referendum they would have to address the problems they should be addressing instead of wasting government time, and tax payers money chasing that dream. After the NO vote some us who were disappointed with the result argued for more powers not only to address the imbalance in the UK constitutional make up but also to appease both sides, stay in the UK which the majority voted for but also power transfer so that the Scottish government had the means to fix Scottish problems with Scottish solutions. I would not have bothered if i thought the SNP would use that support as an excuse to act like a 21st century Arthur Scargill.
Now you may try to equate your Remain vote with a vote in the 2014 referendum but in your own words you weren't really that bothered. Thats the view for the EU that seems to be commonplace despite what the referendum results, year after year the EU parliament elections have had pathetic turnouts and just ask anyone who their MEP is. I know of two simply because one is an ignorant twat and the other is a twat who shames us all for begging in the EU referendum, dont ever let that guy near any negotiations.


--------------------
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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DannyH
post 24th Sep 2016, 05:07pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 24th Sep 2016, 10:39am) *
Who told you that Danny?



Hello Jagz

Common sense told me that. The SNP made their case for a second Scottish Independence referendum, solely on the grounds that a majority of the Scottish electorate voted in a UK referendum to remain in the EU.

Danny
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Kemedian
post 24th Sep 2016, 10:58pm
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As hard as it may be, the best time for the SNP in Government to reissue its battle cry will be AFTER the process of leaving the EU completes and the reality of UK independence exists, imo.

It would be a hasty gamble to act sooner. Importantly, to be fair I think the electorate would want to know what Brexit looks and feels like, before voting in another referendum. Sturgeon should listen to the more moderate voices within her Party who are saying now is the wrong time for Indyref#2.

I would argue that we would then be more likely to vote Yes in favour of EU membership, on the simple logic that you know better what you had once you lose it. If the SNP is in any doubt, then it would be foolish on its part to rush us into such a serious decision. If people are unsure, they tend to stick with what they know best. Another defeat would end the Yes campaign for a very long time.

I did not want Scotland to leave the UK, but neither do I want to leave the EU. I want to see Sturgeon play her part in the Brexit negotiations without distraction and without second-guessing the Scottish electorate - as hard as she may find this task - because in several ways it would be the right thing to do; democratically, strategically and reputationally.

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JAGZ1876
post 24th Sep 2016, 11:01pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 24th Sep 2016, 06:07pm) *
Hello Jagz

Common sense told me that. The SNP made their case for a second Scottish Independence referendum, solely on the grounds that a majority of the Scottish electorate voted in a UK referendum to remain in the EU.

Danny


Your common sense is on the wonk Danny, check out the lies we were told that would happen if we voted YES that have now happened after voting NO.
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JAGZ1876
post 24th Sep 2016, 11:06pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 24th Sep 2016, 11:41am) *
After the NO vote some us who were disappointed with the result argued for more powers not only to address the imbalance in the UK constitutional make up but also to appease both sides, stay in the UK which the majority voted for but also power transfer so that the Scottish government had the means to fix Scottish problems with Scottish solutions.


And those powers have never materialised John, unless you're happy with tinkering around with important powers like air rifle licences and road signs?
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