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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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john.mcn
post 12th Sep 2017, 07:56pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 12th Sep 2017, 09:41am) *
I repeatedly shake my head; as opposed to bashing it off the wall, when I recall how when Scotland prepared to vote on the Referendum to leave or stay with the United Kingdom, the leaders of all the major political parties came up over the border, sans golf clubs and caddies - one even bringing promises chizzled in stone like some latter day Moses - and all to inform us of how leaving the UK, a fully paid up member of the European Union, would mean leaving that European Community and having to apply as a sovereign state to join the queue to join the EU.
I often wonder how many voters in Scotland were swayed by that arguement ... and if they are now pulling their hair out at being dragged, perhaps kicking and screaming, out of the EU by the democratic decision of the majority of the UK residents ... which happens to be English.



If Scotland voted YES to leave the UK then as Scotland was not a member it would not be part of the EU. As we are part of the UK then we already fulfilled the necessary EU laws then I believe that upon applying we would have been accepted in the medium to long term but some sort of deal would have applied in the short term, This would not only be to secure the rights of EU citizens in Scotland but also because the rUK would want to ensure trade within the British Isles would not be affected.
One thing that is clear seeing the SNPs actions, inc voting against the public having the right to vote on the EU, is that they were not going to allow the Scottish public a say over whether we wanted an Independent Scotland to join the EU or not.

How many voters were swayed or not we will never know, it's possible that EU citizens may have been but there were not enough of them to change the result even if every single one of them voted and voted NO, how would that look anyway, Scotland dragged out of the UK against the will of the Scottish.
I live in a constituency that also conveniently covers the council area which is how the Ref votes were counted, not only was it one of the highest NO votes in Scotland, it also was one of the highest remain votes as well. On June of this year the SNP MP was rejected and the conservatives took back the seat they lost in 1997. It was not the only one, the Conservatives increased their MPs from one to thirteen and came second place in votes to the SNP. This is Sturgeons legacy, she mistakenly thought that people would pick the EU over the UK and given another vote I reckon that knowing Sturgeon would use peoples remain vote as an excuse to drag up another referendum then a lot of the voters would switch to leave.


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TeeHeeHee
post 12th Sep 2017, 09:57pm
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QUOTE (Billy Boil @ 11th Sep 2017, 11:01pm) *
Apply for refugee status in Germany ...

I once stood behind the Celtic goal mouth at Parkhead wi' a bunch of mates at aNew Year's old firm match when Big John Greig ran all the way down the field in the 90th minute to put it behind the net to make it 1:0.
I forgot where I was for a moment and threw my hands up in the air with a rousing cheer.
A moment later I was over the wee wall and heading up to my right and the hope of rescue from the chasing cops and the missile hurling mob I was desperately trying to escape; having pulled my concealed Rangers scarf out from underneath my jacket and taking my chances on getting hung for a sheep as a lamb. tongue.gif
I was successfully rescued by Gers fans who pushed me into the crowd. 1963 I think, or '64.

My old man went mad ... he said he saw it on the telly.

Now, with a good lawyer I could claim that returning to Scotland might still cost me my life laugh.gif yes.gif


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Dykejumper
post 28th Sep 2017, 09:41am
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Sir David Attenborough says that Brexiteers spat in the face of Europe when we voted to leave, having said that he doesnt think we are evil !
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bilbo.s
post 29th Sep 2017, 11:12am
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By Nick Williams who wrote and researched this:
Below is a breakdown of the taxes paid each year from a person who earns £25,200pa.
Welfare: £1,901
The EU: £28
Debt: £363
Health: £993
Education: £743
Public order: £284
Defence: £329
Housing: £113
Infastructure, agriculture and industry: £329
Government administration: £125
Overseas aid: £57
Recreation, religion and culture: £113
Environment: £96
Other: £227
Total earnings: £25,200
Take home pay: £19,497.88
Total tax paid: £5,702.12
Many Brexiters would have you belive that the EU 'steals' or 'racketeers' money from the average tax payer.
To put this in to perspective, if you earned £25,200pa and your wages were reduced by £28 per annum would you feel the pinch? No. Could you still pay your rent? Yes of course you could.
What could one buy for £28? 10 cups of coffee? A pair of jeans? Of course you could donate it to charity or give it to a homeless person, maybe buy a dominoes pizza with stuffed crust. Up to you really... I do fancy a pizza now though.
So what does £28 get you with the European Union?
- The ability to travel visa free to 27 other countries with rich cultures and histories.
- The opportunity to set up a business and sell products to over 700 million potential customers.
- Access to over 3 million jobs.
- The opportunity to study and attend some ofnthe best universities on the planet accross in 27 other countries.
- Gain skills and life experiences which help you in the job market and other ventures.
- The opportunity to live in 27 other countries.
- The opportunity to hire skilled individuals from other countries who bring cross qualifications and diverse skills to your busienss.
- Investment in areas of your community which the goverment neglect.
- Progressive legislation which protect your rights, the environment and business.
- Investment in public services, scientific research, architecture and agricultural projects.
Now, let's see the costs of you stopping your £28pa payment:
- Economic disaster and skill shortages across the country causing wage stagnation and regression.
- Fewer jobs.
- An estimated minimum £58.7 billion and potentially going up to £100 billion coming from goverment borrowing and you guessed it, your taxes. Worked out on the £58.7 billion number you will paying £225pa in taxes so almost 10x what you currently pay in to be a member of the EU.
- You're also sacrificing and putting your rights at risk and in to the hands of the tories.
- Less foreign investment and smaller busiensses struggling / shutting down.
- Less investment in infrastructure, research, universities, agriculture, environmental projects and all of the above mentioned areas.
- Businesses moving abroad.
The costs of Brexit far out way any positive which the UK MAY get.
The WTO say so, the EU say so, the USA have turned their backs on us, 9 out of 10 economists say so.


Copied from FB. No idea who nick Williams is, and so the research can be dismissed as rubbish. Feel free.








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JAGZ1876
post 29th Sep 2017, 12:56pm
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If Daydreaming was an Olympic sport May and her team would be Gold medal winners.

http://news.sky.com/story/michael-barnier-...speech-11057279
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bilbo.s
post 16th Oct 2017, 08:34am
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JAGZ1876
post 23rd Oct 2017, 10:58am
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"Theresa May 'begged' Juncker for help"

Not so "Strong and Stable" apparently. unsure.gif


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...s-a8014741.html
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john.mcn
post 25th Oct 2017, 11:06pm
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The fifth column in the press have shot themselves in the foot

QUOTE
Juncker rejects claim May begged for help at dinner meeting


Jean-Claude Juncker has rushed to salvage relations with Downing Street at a dangerous point in the Brexit negotiations by denying claims that the prime minister had begged for help at a recent private dinner, instead insisting she had been in “good shape” and “fighting”.

The European commission president made the comments hours after his chief of staff, Martin Selmayr, felt the need to publicly deny being the source of an account of the meal in Brussels, published in a German newspaper. The report had described May as pleading for her political life at the dinner on 16 October and appearing “anxious”, “tormented”, “despondent and discouraged”.

Juncker, on a visit to Strasbourg University, said the claims and comments attributed to him in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) were untrue. His public denunciation is indicative of a growing fear in Brussels that a narrative is being built in which the EU will be blamed for provoking a “no deal” scenario.

“I am really surprised – if not shocked – about what has been written in the German press,” he said. “And of course repeated by the British press. Nothing is true in all of this. I had an excellent working dinner with Theresa May. She was in good shape, she was not tired, she was fighting as is her duty so everything for me was OK.”

Asked whether May, who is struggling to keep her divided cabinet together, had begged for help in selling a divorce bill of ¤60bn (£53bn), he responded: “No, that’s not the style of British prime ministers.”

Later, in a speech at Strasbourg University, Juncker again insisted that the prime minister had not appeared tired but was working for a good deal. However, he added of the financial settlement: “We must know what will be the bill of commitments that the Brits are taking.”

Selmayr had tweeted earlier on Monday that he had nothing to do with the contentious report after Nick Timothy, May’s most senior aide until he resigned following the general election, blamed him for the disclosures. “After constructive [European] Council meeting, Selmayr does this. Reminder that some in Brussels want no deal or a punitive one,” Timothy had tweeted.

Selmayr wrote in response: “This is false. I know it does’t fit your cliché, @NickJTimothy. But @JunckerEU & I have no interest in weakening PM”.

He went on: “But it seems some have interest in undermining constructive relations @JunckerEU & PM May. Who? is the real question”, adding:

The FAZ article says Juncker, who had a debrief with the article 50 taskforce after the dinner, described the meal to his colleagues, suggesting a wide cast of people had access to the information.

In an unusual step, the European commission’s chief spokesperson, Margaritis Schinas, had also insisted that Juncker had not made the observations detailed in the report. He suggested that unnamed people were seeking to undermine the EU’s negotiating position, adding that they should “leave us alone”.

Schinas said: “Some people like to point at us to serve their own political agendas, their own political priorities, or even to undermine our negotiating position. We would appreciate it if these people would leave us alone. We have lots of work and no time for gossip.

“I have to be very clear that President Juncker would never use the words attributed to him and never have said anything like this. We have never been punitive on Brexit. We have said at all levels on many occasions that we were working for a fair deal.”

After last week’s dinner, a joint statement had been released agreeing to accelerate Brexit talks. It described the meal as having taken place in a “constructive and friendly atmosphere”. Juncker promised to give a “postmortem” of the meal to reporters, but no other details emerged during the week.

However, on Sunday FAZ claimed that when May came to Brussels she had “begged for help”. It said she had emphasised to Juncker the risk she had taken in “giving up the hard Brexit course and asking for a transitional period of two years, in which everything is going to be the same”.

May was reported to have recalled “that she had also moved on the delicate issue of finances”. The paper added: “And she let them know that friend and foe at home were breathing down her neck, waiting for her to fall. She said she had no room for manoeuvre, and that the Europeans would have to make it for them.”

The article went on: “The prime minister is drawn from the struggle with her own party. Under her eyes she wears deep rings. She looks like someone who does not sleep through the night.”

The newspaper claimed that, despite denials from Downing Street, the meal had been arranged at the last minute.

It was claimed that the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, also told May in a phone call before the European council summit on Thursday and Friday that Berlin was not willing to solve Britain’s problems.

At the summit, EU leaders ruled that insufficient progress had been made in the negotiations for Brussels to open talks on a future trading relationship with Britain. There were, however, warm words for May from Merkel and the president of the European council, Donald Tusk.

A No 10 spokesman denied the meal had been arranged in haste, but refused to be drawn on any other aspect of the article, including suggestions that she had begged for help.

A report in the Times claimed that the leaks had left Merkel “furious”, fearing they could lead to the collapse of the talks and May being toppled in the middle of negotiations.

Also attending the meal with Juncker and May were the Brexit secretary, David Davis, the prime minister’s chief Brexit adviser, Olly Robbins, and the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Earlier this year, Selmayr was accused of leaking to FAZ details of a private dinner in April between May and Juncker at Downing Street, which the commission president was said to have left “10 times more sceptical” than when he arrived.


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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bilbo.s
post 26th Oct 2017, 07:34am
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It never ceases to amaze, how the idiom "shooting in the foot" is misunderstood and misused by so many.


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bilbo.s
post 26th Oct 2017, 03:48pm
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wombat
post 26th Oct 2017, 06:41pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 26th Oct 2017, 03:48pm) *

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biggrin.gif we,we,we,we,we, all the way home laugh.gif


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because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

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john.mcn
post 26th Oct 2017, 08:36pm
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In summary, 'we' dont have to ask them anymore laugh.gif
Give it ten years in that place and we would have to ask to go to the toilet

I seen recently that EU fishing communities are starting to worry about a no deal Brexit, cant think why
https://www.nafc.uhi.ac.uk/research/eez-rep.../eez-report-10/
An analysis of available data has been carried out to determine how much fish and shellfish were landed from the UK’s Exclusive Economic Zone (UK EEZ) EU fishing boats, and by UK boats from other areas of the EU EEZ.

The results of the analysis indicate that:

EU fishing boats landed more fish and shellfish from the UK EEZ in 2016 than UK boats did (58% of the total by weight).
About one quarter of the fish and shellfish landed by EU fishing boats from the North-East Atlantic in 2016 (23% by weight) was caught in the UK EEZ.
Only a small proportion of the fish and shellfish landed by UK fishing boats in 2016 (12% by weight) was caught elsewhere in the EU EEZ.
As a result, EU boats landed 10 times more fish and shellfish (by weight, six times more by value) from the UK EEZ in 2016 than UK boats did from other areas of the EU EEZ.
The ratio between the amounts landed by EU fishing boats from the UK EEZ and by UK boats from the EU EEZ varied widely between individual species, but for 13 of the 15 principal species EU boats landed more from the UK EEZ than UK boats did from the EU EEZ.


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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JAGZ1876
post 7th Nov 2017, 11:09am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 26th Oct 2017, 08:36pm) *
In summary, 'we' dont have to ask them anymore laugh.gif
Give it ten years in that place and we would have to ask to go to the toilet

I seen recently that EU fishing communities are starting to worry about a no deal Brexit, cant think why
https://www.nafc.uhi.ac.uk/research/eez-rep.../eez-report-10/
An analysis of available data has been carried out to determine how much fish and shellfish were landed from the UK’s Exclusive Economic Zone (UK EEZ) EU fishing boats, and by UK boats from other areas of the EU EEZ.

The results of the analysis indicate that:

EU fishing boats landed more fish and shellfish from the UK EEZ in 2016 than UK boats did (58% of the total by weight).
About one quarter of the fish and shellfish landed by EU fishing boats from the North-East Atlantic in 2016 (23% by weight) was caught in the UK EEZ.
Only a small proportion of the fish and shellfish landed by UK fishing boats in 2016 (12% by weight) was caught elsewhere in the EU EEZ.
As a result, EU boats landed 10 times more fish and shellfish (by weight, six times more by value) from the UK EEZ in 2016 than UK boats did from other areas of the EU EEZ.
The ratio between the amounts landed by EU fishing boats from the UK EEZ and by UK boats from the EU EEZ varied widely between individual species, but for 13 of the 15 principal species EU boats landed more from the UK EEZ than UK boats did from the EU EEZ.



According to Michael Gove the UK fishing industry is too small.

Michael Gove has told the Danish fishing industry that boats from EU countries will still be able to operate in UK waters after Brexit, as the UK does not have enough capacity to catch and process all its fish alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/a...rexit-says-gove
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