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> Immigration Worries, Its no a new worry
angel
post 6th Nov 2014, 05:19pm
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Also Dave , the provinces here have a say in the amount of immigrants they take in , they tell the federal government , the employment situation , where is the best places to be in that province , housing , etc.. and the feds. pay them for this service , although , once the immigrants get here they can travel wherever they like in this country .

Now I understand that Wesminster pays Scotland to take in immigrants and I must assume that Scotland also has a say in this emmigration ,quotas and such like . ?

Therefore , I would think that it is not all of Westminster's fault . but then everything that is politically wrong in Scotland is always Westminsters fault , unsure.gif


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Alex MacPhee
post 6th Nov 2014, 06:25pm
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QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 6th Nov 2014, 03:40pm) *
the economic immigrant you see swamping the UK with neither Job prospects or financial means to support themselves and their dependents.


On average, European area immigrants put more into the public purse than they take out, and they pay approximately 35% more in taxes than they receive in benefits, compared to British natives who pay around 11% less in tax than they receive. Moreover, immigrants are around 45% less likely to receive state benefits or tax credits than native UK residents. European area immigrants therefore represent a net fiscal benefit to the UK economy.

[Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK, 2013]


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john.mcn
post 6th Nov 2014, 06:48pm
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Would that possibly be down to a lot of single men/women amongst them swaying the figures Alex?
Families who come here and work will be entitled to all the same benefits as any other family.
Single people or childless couples born here or elsewhere will always pay more tax than they take out, these studies should break it down demographically.


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Alex MacPhee
post 6th Nov 2014, 07:17pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 6th Nov 2014, 07:05pm) *
Would that possibly be down to a lot of single men/women amongst them swaying the figures Alex?


I see immigrants criticised because they bring their families over here (or, equivalently, because they have higher birth rates than the natives), and then when it's pointed out that immigrants from the EEA are net contributors to the Exchequer, they're now single and without families ... According to MigrationWatch UK, native Britons have the lowest average household size. However, the net contribution of EEA immigrants over natives is maintained even when controlled for age, sex, and education.




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john.mcn
post 6th Nov 2014, 07:44pm
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I'm pointing out that if you break it down into demographics then you may find that families will be entitled to child tax credits or housing benefits just the same as any UK family thus possibly not net contributors.
BTW i dont criticise people for moving to get a better way of life, the faults lay with governments who seemingly cant foretell that when border restrictions are removed people from poorer areas will flock to what they see as more prosperous ones, it's not like they cant look back through history books and see this is what mankind has always done...ohh wait they can!


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Alex MacPhee
post 6th Nov 2014, 08:07pm
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I understand what you're saying. But I'm also saying that even when you correct for these issues, the net fiscal contribution of European immigrants is still higher. Immigrants on average have, for instance, higher educational qualifications than natives : it's something like 32% educated to university degree level compared with 20-ish% for natives. What do you figure is propping up the Health Service? University level education is not an indicator of a poverty migrant.

The situation is different for non-European Area immigrants, where there is a net loss. However, that's more controllable, since European Area immigrants have rights under EU legislation for movement within Europe, exactly as you and I do, and non-EEA migrants don't.


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john.mcn
post 6th Nov 2014, 10:19pm
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Yeah i get that when you collectively lump them all together that even with 'costs' they pay more into the system than take out, but then if you take a sample of any population where the majority are young and single or childless couples in employment they will also pay more into the system than take out, but that all changes when you have kids as will happen with EU migrants. To keep these figures up there would need to be a constant stream (or flood wink.gif ) of childless migrants to keep the tax payments up. As i also said it also doesn't take into account other factors, like increasing competition in the jobs market and making it harder for the 'local' unemployed to gain employment. For every EU migrant working and paying taxes, you could argue that it means another 'local' not in employment.

With non EU immigration i have to question why we still allow this when there are no controls over EU migration, at the very least migrants should have to be fluent in English and be qualified to a professional level.


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Alex MacPhee
post 6th Nov 2014, 10:55pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 6th Nov 2014, 10:36pm) *
Yeah i get that when you collectively lump them all together that even with 'costs' they pay more into the system than take out, but then if you take a sample of any population where the majority are young and single or childless couples in employment they will also pay more into the system than take out

You don't seem to be cottoning on to the point that even when you control for this, i.e. comparing like with like, immigrants are still a net benefit.

QUOTE
To keep these figures up there would need to be a constant stream (or flood wink.gif ) of childless migrants to keep the tax payments up.

No there wouldn't. You are ignoring here the fact that migrants tend to be better educated and therefore have higher paid jobs, meaning they pay more tax. It's poorer families that take more support in welfare, not wealthier families. That's the point of wealth ...

QUOTE
As i also said it also doesn't take into account other factors, like increasing competition in the jobs market and making it harder for the 'local' unemployed to gain employment.


What's the evidence for this? Is there any evidence that immigrants are taking jobs from other people, or are they taking jobs that other people (i) don't want, or (ii) are underqualified for?

The reason that immigration has been encouraged in recent years is precisely because there aren't enough of the native population to supply the job market.


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Alex MacPhee
post 6th Nov 2014, 11:06pm
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QUOTE
With non EU immigration i have to question why we still allow this when there are no controls over EU migration, at the very least migrants should have to be fluent in English and be qualified to a professional level.

I figure pretty much the same. As far as I know, it's pretty tough to get in to the UK now from outside the EU area. Occasionally, I go abroad with a number of friends, one of whom is Japanese, and every time we get back, Yuko has a heck of a job going through passport control, and whereas it may take me about five minutes, Yuko can be ten hours. And she's been living here a long time.


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DannyH
post 6th Nov 2014, 11:53pm
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QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 6th Nov 2014, 03:45pm) *
I suppose there's also the pressure on, say, the Spanish schools when all those Brits turn up with kids who don't speak Spanish.

Not just stamps on you passport. I miss the foreign currency too. The Euro is boring.


Hello Betsy

I wonder if the Spanish schools bother whether or not British kids turning up at their schools can speak Spanish. I don't know, so I am hoping some ex-pat living in Spain could enlighten us on this.

Regards

Danny Harris
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ktv
post 7th Nov 2014, 12:20am
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QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 6th Nov 2014, 03:40pm) *
Your theory and fears are all conjecture ktv, I don't know where you get the 6mill figure from? whether it includes people who have retired say to Spain or like myself having left the country voluntarily, but in the two scenarios i detailed that type of person can support themselves without using up valuable resources from the country they have chosen to live in, there's a big, nay a huge difference from going to live somewhere where through your SKILLS or FINANCIAL means you are able to support yourself and your family and the economic immigrant you see swamping the UK with neither Job prospects or financial means to support themselves and their dependents.

And if your worried about having to show a passport when you travel, I can remember the time when people would boast about the number of foreign stamps in their passport laugh.gif


I got the 6 million number from the bbc ...(it actually says 5.5 million)
I don't see how you can say theres a difference between brits going to work abroad and some one coming here to find work.
and I really don't see how anyone can live in any country without using its infrastructure and services either.
the myth that we are swamped with people leeching of our resources had been disproven time and time again...the latest ucl figures show this too.

of the 5.5 million worldwide there are 1.8 million brits living in the Europe.....and take a guess how many Europeans are living in the UK?

QUOTE
The number of European migrants in the UK is almost exactly balanced by the number of Britons living elsewhere in the EU, according to official figures.
About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, with Spain boasting an expat population of just over 1m UK citizens, according to government estimates. Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK. That compares with an estimate of 2.34m EU citizens living in the UK, according to the latest official figures from Nomis – the National Online Manpower Information System, a service provided by the Office for National Statistics – based on passport records.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9025-11...l#axzz3IKzPHAkY
so what way do you want it exactly...people allowed to move about or not?...we'll still have the same amount of people using our resources
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DannyH
post 7th Nov 2014, 12:26am
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QUOTE (Alex MacPhee @ 6th Nov 2014, 06:42pm) *
On average, European area immigrants put more into the public purse than they take out, and they pay approximately 35% more in taxes than they receive in benefits, compared to British natives who pay around 11% less in tax than they receive. Moreover, immigrants are around 45% less likely to receive state benefits or tax credits than native UK residents. European area immigrants therefore represent a net fiscal benefit to the UK economy.

[Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK, 2013]

Hello Alex

The problem I have with these Analysis type documents is that they are statistics, compiled by people who can't possible know how many people have migrated to the UK. The UK Government doesn't know how many people have migrated here, so this analysis must be based on migrants who have made tax returns?

How can they possibly know the net financial effect of immigration to the UK when they don't know the whole story. It is all very well for them to just neglect the immigrants unaccounted for. The authors of these types of studies don't live in the communities that have been 'invaded' by many of these immigrants.

The recent study carried out by the University of London came to a similar conclusion. It was only ater the results of the study were released that we were informed the study was carried out a ferw years ago. How many immigraqnts have poured in since the study was carried out.

All the discussions we have on this topic will not make any difference. The politicians are the one who have the responsibilty for taking action. They are all getting worried because of UKIP. Many people make jibes about UKIP. However, many, many more see them as the only hope of stopping the us from becoming a minority in our own country.

The people who are voting for UKIP are not stupid. They realise that if UKIP became the Government of this country it would be a disaster. However, if it is the only way to get the main political parties to start listening to our concerns about immigration, then so be it.

It will be interesting to see the results of the forthcoming General Election. It seems likely that the SNP have a good chance of wiping out Labour in Scotland. If they do, they better put immigration on the top of their list. Why, because the immigrants just keep coming here on a daily basis. Somethings got to happen before it is too late for all of us.

There are rumblings amongst Labour MP's regarding ED Milliband. I wonder if one of the reasons is they are frightened they will lose their seats unless immigration is put to the top of the agenda?

Regards

Danny Harris
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Scotsman
post 18th Nov 2014, 11:26am
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Some immigration worries are right for sure....

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/mothers...88815n.25877435

QUOTE
THE mother of a Glasgow man brutally murdered by an eastern European with a violent past has called for tougher criminal checks on immigrants.
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Alex MacPhee
post 18th Nov 2014, 11:35am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 7th Nov 2014, 12:43am) *
Hello Alex

The problem I have with these Analysis type documents is that they are statistics, compiled by people who can't possible know how many people have migrated to the UK.


How do you know that? When you come to the UK, you don't just walk through immigration control.


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Alex Saville
post 18th Nov 2014, 01:43pm
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Some don't walk through immigration, some break into lorries, hide under lorries and some (Recently) tried sailing in!
When those who have entered the UK hiding in lorries are found away from the ports, they get turned loose with a card 'Directing' them to the nearest immigration Centre.
Meanwhile, the Lorry Driver, unlike Ferry Captains or Train Drivers, gets fined up to 2000 for every illegal aboard.
How many of these illegals get charged with Criminal Damage to the vehicle or load? NONE!
How many illegals, who have entered without passing immigration are in the UK? The Government doesn't know so I have no idea!
How many illegals are there who have failed to get asylum status are still in the UK?
Again, the Government doesn't know.
The whole system is a shambles! No wonder UKIP is flourishing.
Alex
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