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> New Sectarian Laws In Scotland, Laws to combat sectarianism
mitchell
post 17th Jun 2011, 10:13am
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Now this is interesting, imposing tough new prison terms.

Story from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13796044
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wee davy
post 17th Jun 2011, 10:56am
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GG I'm sure will take note!

Even MORE interesting when it is announced immediately the day after the UK Attorney General successfully prosecuted his first 'internet' offence. Have the floodgates opened, I wonder?


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TeeHeeHee
post 17th Jun 2011, 11:21am
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A lot of the murder that gets threatened on the Internet is just to reputations ... see you Davy, Am gonnae murder you. tongue.gif biggrin.gif


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Tommy Kennedy
post 17th Jun 2011, 02:58pm
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I think the simplest/easiest/cheapest way to handle sectarianism at Glasgow football matches is to issue each fanatic hooligan a weapon of their choice with their ticket; then at the end of the match let them on to the pitch to fight it out –, then sell the corpses for dog food to defray expenses - the numbers would soon decrease.
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bilbo.s
post 17th Jun 2011, 03:09pm
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A radical approach not without merit. I fear it might be vetoed by the human rights lobby. When will they realise that this legislation is only supposed to apply to bona fide HUMANS ?


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Jupiter
post 17th Jun 2011, 03:25pm
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I think this will be a red hot potato for appeals under Article 10 which provides for freedom of expression subject to certain restrictions.
I can just envisage a whole section of thousands of fans at a football club giving it chants and verbal and a handful of police officers watching on.On the face of it is it really practical to enforce such a law?
Concerning the internet are ISPs going to be rolling over and giving out customers particulars to police for expressing opinions,no matter how unacceptable, and risking losing business?
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Mathieson
post 17th Jun 2011, 08:37pm
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While applying the new law might prove impractical in every given scenario there may be enough threat implied in the measures to eliminate the worst of excesses. We shall see.


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Jupiter
post 17th Jun 2011, 09:03pm
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I cannot imagine the police getting too excited about this new law.In my view they have more than adequate power vested in the common law Breach of the Peace which in the most serious cases can be prosecuted by way of indictment."Any person who causes annoyance and or conducts himself/herself in a disorderly manner commits a Breach of the Peace."
I do not recall recently (although Im not saying it hasnt happened) seeing any police officer going into a seated area in any stadium and arresting anyone for shouting sectarian/obscene/abusive language,probably because the officers have been replaced by stewards.This proposal must mean the re introduction of Police officers in the stadia to act as a deterrant....;and who will pay? It has to be the clubs.
It will be interesting to see what transpires as this looks as though it is getting an express shoo-in through Parliament.
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Dunvegan
post 18th Jun 2011, 10:39am
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Soccer engenders sectarianism in Australia. Mainly between eastern European supporters of one denomination or another. However the division is not centered on religion, rather than ethnicity. The same soccer rioter shave managed to disrupt the tennis open in Melbourne. Action was taken in the tennis case to deny rioters access to the stadiums and ban all symbols of ethnicity, flags supporters banners etc. This behavior never ever occurs in Australian rule football where ethnic rivalries are subdued in the support of the clubs. As there is no ethnically or religious divisions inherent in the game there is never any violence. There have been several occasions when supporters of clubs have racially abused Aborigines; the clubs were given the responsibility of cleaning up their acts which they promptly did rather than face the ostracism resulting in such behavior. Put the onus on the clubs. If the abuse continues they play behind locked gates and forfeit the profits.
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GG
post 18th Jun 2011, 11:16am
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I read a very interesting comment article on this subject last month in the Scotsman. Written by Michael Fry, it raises a number of issues which suggest that the new laws are both inappropriate and superfluous.

QUOTE
A totally unnecessary crackdown
By Michael Fry

New legislation on sectarianism smacks of a knee-jerk reaction to a diminishing problem

In November 2009, Brian Blair from Maryhill drove to Perth intent on robbery. He broke into a house outside the town and terrorised the couple living there, Annabelle Hutchison, 59, and Gordon Barnes, 57.

Blair threatened them with a hammer, tied them up and dragged them around their home. Annabelle was so distressed she thought she was going to have a heart attack, and Blair at least relented enough to give her some medication. To her partner he showed no such mercy: he tied a plastic bag over Gordon's head and dumped him in the River Almond. Lucky for him, Gordon did not drown but lived to see Blair tried, convicted and sent to prison for five years.

Five years may seem rather a lenient sentence for such horrific violence, but the sheriff took into account the "spark of humanity" that Blair had shown. These are matters on which reasonable men can differ and there is always a lively enough debate in Scotland on the severity of sentencing, with the just desire for retribution needing on sheer practical grounds to be balanced against the overstrained capacity of our prisons, the most crowded in western Europe.

So I wonder how, into that situation, we are to fit the decision by the Scottish cabinet yesterday to bring in legislation that would raise the maximum sentence for sectarian hate crime from six months to five years. ...

Read the full article here:
http://news.scotsman.com/religiousissuesin...sary.6774395.jp

GG.


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Heather
post 18th Jun 2011, 11:17am
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I wonder how this new Law will work out if and when it's passed.

The five years in Prison is the maximum term and most offenders will probably get Community Service or six months in Prison, walking out after two months.

What annoys me about it is, we have thugs walking about armed with knives and nothing done about it until they stab someone to death.
When and what will our Government do to put a stop to these knife thugs.


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bilbo.s
post 18th Jun 2011, 11:31am
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Another interesting point of view:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/be...m-research-data


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fourbytwo
post 18th Jun 2011, 02:32pm
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cool.gif Sorry to be a moaner, but, seems to me that such 'rushed legislation' is doomed from day one, as it has, and will not define what is and is not deemed 'sectarian'.
What we might deem sectarian, as reported outside Ibrox too frequently, is, I would suggest unfair at labelling Ibrox as in any way, the forerunner in this National problem.
The last Celtic match v Hearts and it was easy to hear some very 'biased and sectarian' songs from BOTH sets of fans, many, many of these chants are levelling bile and hatred against the British Government and the Queen, as well as the Pope and others......
So, what is sectarian....?
Is it only sectarian when the subject is religious, or should the label be also put against ancient and outdated songs from Eire, where the lyrics are against GB and the Queen.....?
To step back and smell what most of the politicians are shovelling, it becomes clearer that the Police will once again be given even more powers to determine what THEY THINK is criminal, and NOT actually providing Scotland with a clear picture of what is needed.....!
I realise that small steps to begin with are the way ahead....but I genuinely feel that no sooner has this new law been passed, then its many, many flaws will be exposed in test cases.....
Such a pity when Messrs Salmond and croanies are so desparate to prove that Scots Justice is as good, if not better than that available elsewhere......! wub.gif
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Heather
post 18th Jun 2011, 02:50pm
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I don't know if Religios bigotry still exists in some Companies but I know for a fact it did exist as I was turned down for a job in an office in the 1970s because of my Religion.

When I phoned the Job Centre and told the woman who sent me for the interview what had been said to me she was embarrassed and said I had all the Accounts experience the Company was looking for and she was sure I would get the job and apologised for what must have been a very upsetting experience.

Then she said there was a lot of questions she could ask me, but would be sacked if she asked my Religion.
Then in the background I heard another voice call out, " what were you thinking about sending someone with a name like hers to that place ". ohmy.gif

One of my brothers had a similar experience, but he had been warned about the Company before going for the interview. He was in his 20s at the time and when asked straight out what school he went to and what his Religion was he lied about his school and his Religion and got the job.
In a short time he was found out and the boss did everything to get try and get rid of him but as my brother said, he kept his head down and worked hard until he got another job else where.


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angel
post 18th Jun 2011, 03:36pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 18th Jun 2011, 10:39am) *

Bill,it would seem to me that , Steve Bruce obviously has'nt read the posts on the " Old Firm Thread " smile.gif


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