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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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JAGZ1876
post Y'day, 11:17am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 20th Jun 2017, 07:53pm) *
Well it looks like he's saying that as a minority party the SNP cant get a coalition because they oppose everyone.

if it is as you say though then why is bilbo such a fan of the EU where an Indy Scotland will have 12 at most MEPs in a parliament of almost 700 (post Brexit) an Indy Scotland will have even less say there than we do at present in Westminster, at least here they can propose all those stupid motions.


Now i don't think that's what he's saying at all.

Even having 12 MSP's is double what we have at the moment, and we would be partners with 26 other independent states, but my main concern is independence first then worry about whether the EU is good or bad for Scotland.

Why do you not want Scotland to have a voice?
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john.mcn
post Y'day, 06:54pm
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Well as bilbo has posted and didn't go into what he actually meant I'll just go with what it looks like other than what you think he means. Either way it comes down to voting for the SNP in a Westminster election is a waste of time, if you want a Labour government then vote Labour. If they waste their time in office calling for motions to recognise Star treck or oor wullie then vore for another party, which the majority of the public actually did.


Your wee plan of indy first then an EU referendum worked in 2014, since then we have seen that the SNP was totally against giving the public a vote on the EU when they ironically demand another vote on Indy. This not only goes against the agreement they signed but also the dozens of times the FM an successor stated it would be once in a generation/lifetime.

If Scotland becomes independent in the future then we can have our own referendum to join the United States of Federal Europe, by then we will know exactly the terms of Brexit and what it will mean to trade across the Tweed.


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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Kemedian
post Y'day, 08:53pm
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QUOTE (wombat @ 20th Jun 2017, 10:13pm) *
laugh.gif to be sure, to be sure, to be sure, yes.gif

That's what I thought, Wombat, when I began reading Jagz asking us not to discuss Indyref2.

I doubted his resolve, and was right. See above.

His Party hates anyone but them talking about another referendum because, as was seen at the election, the SNP loses control of the overall message. This so-called Government is now twisted into a corner where it is desparately rebuilding its case for Indyref2, to put to the public who are voting increasingly against it.

Jagz and his Party will never stop to listen to Scotland, but they will try to stop the UK from not only voting on independence but from implementing the result too.

The SNP is against anything that's against independence, except if its British. Jagz may try to claim that if he doesn't mention Indyref2 then he isn't discussing it. What is he doing then, rabble rousing? He and his Party are geared for one thing and one thing only, this FM and her most faithful follower have taught us that.

The only end in sight is that of her job.
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bilbo.s
post Y'day, 10:16pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 21st Jun 2017, 10:53pm) *
That's what I thought, Wombat, when I began reading Jagz asking us not to discuss Indyref2.

I doubted his resolve, and was right. See above.

His Party hates anyone but them talking about another referendum because, as was seen at the election, the SNP loses control of the overall message. This so-called Government is now twisted into a corner where it is desparately rebuilding its case for Indyref2, to put to the public who are voting increasingly against it.

Jagz and his Party will never stop to listen to Scotland, but they will try to stop the UK from not only voting on independence but from implementing the result too.

The SNP is against anything that's against independence, except if its British. Jagz may try to claim that if he doesn't mention Indyref2 then he isn't discussing it. What is he doing then, rabble rousing? He and his Party are geared for one thing and one thing only, this FM has taught us that.

The only end in sight is that of her job.





Why do you feel obliged to write such drivel. The SNP was founded to fight for independence and that is, and will be forever, its raison d'Ítre. Why are you so surprised at a party which sticks to its principles. Oh, I know- you have never known one before!

Your assumed reference to Brexit is a completely different constitutional matter. UK, as other EU members, is independent but part of a democratic alliance. Try telling the French or the Germans that they have lost their sovereignty. They will laugh in your face, as they now laugh at May and her supporters. The whole world is bemused at the Scots' lack of complete support for removal from WM's shackles, and the UK's suicidal rush for Brexit.

Nicola Sturgeon will still be here, long after Theresa May's demise, as the Tory sharks go into a feeding frenzy. Gawd knows how her successor will be an improvement, though, from a lineup of cretins and scoundrels.



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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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JAGZ1876
post Y'day, 10:51pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 21st Jun 2017, 07:54pm) *
Well as bilbo has posted and didn't go into what he actually meant I'll just go with what it looks like other than what you think he means. Either way it comes down to voting for the SNP in a Westminster election is a waste of time, if you want a Labour government then vote Labour.


Yet in the 2010 Westminster election the results were.

Labour 41
Libdem 11
SNP 6
Tories 1

Yet we still had a Tory government, and i know you'll say that 1 is greater than 41 but without using insulting language how do you explain this discrepancy in your logic John?
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JAGZ1876
post Y'day, 10:53pm
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[quote name='john.mcn' post='3731582' date='21st Jun 2017, 07:54pm']

Is Brexit working out the way you hoped when you voted Leave John?
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john.mcn
post Y'day, 11:13pm
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Y


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john.mcn
post Y'day, 11:16pm
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You seem to be a bit short on the numbers there Jagz, the Westminster election is for 650 seats. If you cant work it out from that then i cant answer without being insulting in my reply.


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JAGZ1876
post Y'day, 11:30pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 22nd Jun 2017, 12:16am) *
You seem to be a bit short on the numbers there Jagz, the Westminster election is for 650 seats. If you cant work it out from that then i cant answer without being insulting in my reply.


"if you want a Labour government then vote Labour"

Scotland voted Labour in 2010 and yet we still got a Tory government we never voted for, there are 59 seats in Scotland John, i think you'll find they are all there in the numbers i gave.
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john.mcn
post Y'day, 11:45pm
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Duh!! (told you)


WESTMINSTER election, you yourself said it then did not count 591 of the seats being contested


Most of Scotland did not vote for the SNP yet we got an SNP government in Holyrood

How many people in Scotland voted for the EU president?


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JAGZ1876
post Y'day, 11:48pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 22nd Jun 2017, 12:45am) *
Duh!! (told you)


WESTMINSTER election, you yourself said it then did not count 591 of the seats being contested


Most of Scotland did not vote for the SNP yet we got an SNP government in Holyrood

How many people in Scotland voted for the EU president?


So the other members of the EU should have had a vote on whether the UK should or shouldn't have separated from the union then?
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john.mcn
post Y'day, 11:56pm
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you keep saying not to use insulting language but come out with this crap.


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JAGZ1876
post Today, 12:22am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 22nd Jun 2017, 12:56am) *
you keep saying not to use insulting language but come out with this crap.



I'll take that as a NO then. unsure.gif
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