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> Glasgow: Worst Schools In Britain?, City bottom of UK qualifications league
Dave Grieve
post 17th Sep 2011, 12:59pm
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Hi GG it’s all very well saying that education needs have changed over the last forty years and that corporal punishment is not the answer.
It’s probably true that we need better educated school leavers than before and for some reason Britain as a whole seems to be falling down on this critical part of the countries development.

What I know of kids through observation of my own, and other kids is it doesn’t matter what age they are if they can take a chance and get away with it, they will.
If schools are not allowed to use corporal punishment what alternative do you have for them?

In the past forty years the liberal do-gooders and PC brigade have done immense damage to British society by giving people (school kids) who are not mature enough yet to make reasoned decisions on a daily basis carte blange to cause havoc in classes with out fear of any type of retribution.

When I was going to school at St Rochs the belt was dished out willy-nilly every day sometimes it seemed for no good reason and sometimes sadistically.
But it kept every one on their toes and it seems as if my generation was better educated than the present one.
What’s the difference, between then and now?
The pupils today have more advantages than my generation.
They don’t go to bed hungry. My generation did.
They all seem to be well dressed. My generation went to school with thin jerseys and holes in the soles of their shoes.
Transport to and from schools doesn’t seem to be a problem with the number of cars on the road. We walked everywhere.
So with all the modern advantages why have standards dropped??

The old style belt may not have been the answer but the alternative of taking away the fear of punishment has failed, so until another method of keeping kids focused on their lessons can be thought up I say go back to it.
This could be coupled with a supervised approach, meaning the teacher cant just hand out punishment in the class like before, I have seen teachers overreact when losing their temper.
The pupil could go to some sort of area where the school nurse is present and punishment recorded, that way the transgressors as well as the teacher administering punishment could be kept track of.

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mlconnelly
post 17th Sep 2011, 05:12pm
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The belt may or may not be the answer but it should never have been banned until something effective was put in place to replace it. Part of the problem in schools these day is that no one is taught disipline or respect, yet the youth of today demand respect as if its a god given right and not something that has to be earned. Mary
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Heather
post 17th Sep 2011, 05:57pm
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Quite right Mary.

I am horrified when I hear the way the young of today speak to Teachers. In my day we would not have dared and if we had been cheeky to Teachers and our parents found out, they have given us a clip on the ear.

I rarely ever got the belt at School, it was mostly lines. We even got them for not wearing our School Uniform.
I defied a Teacher once and was sent to the Head and got the belt even though the Teacher was in the wrong.


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Heather.......I'm tartan. Alba gu Brath. Saor Alba
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glasgow lass
post 17th Sep 2011, 08:00pm
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QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 17th Sep 2011, 01:45pm) *
Hi GG it’s all very well saying that education needs have changed over the last forty years and that corporal punishment is not the answer.
It’s probably true that we need better educated school leavers than before and for some reason Britain as a whole seems to be falling down on this critical part of the countries development. ...

Interesting prospective Dave but what about giving the kids encouragement instead belting them with a strap.There is no such thing as a happy child who has to study under the threat of being hit if they do not understand what is going on in the class room.
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murphy
post 18th Sep 2011, 05:33am
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This has been an amazing thread. Here in the States I have noticed if children do not put in any effort they are pretty much ignored, that is why parents have to regularly check on their childrens grades and citizenship. I remember the belt in school it was demeaning and abuse, I never got it for not doing work but I talked a lot and was always belted for my mouth flapping. This punishment did not work and I still flap my mouth off when I think it is neccessary. We need to support the teachers, do you remember going home and telling your Mother the teacher was mean to you for whatever reason, then we would be punished by our Mother who always took the teacher's side. I think the best form of disipline would be consequences I use this with my grandkids, and it sure works, that and consistency, and the children knowing what their consequence will be if they do not follow through and follow rules.
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ashfield
post 18th Sep 2011, 08:02am
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I am not sure why the issue of the belt (or any other form of corporal punishment) is being discussed in this thread. The outcome of the study is about how Glasgow schools appear to be the worst in Britain. If you check you will find that the belt is banned across the whole of the Country, but some schools still seem to encourage children to perform well.

For what it's worth, my experience of the belt is that good teachers never (or rarely) had to use it.

I posted these links over a month ago in the "Glasgow schools falling further behind" thread, I think the second one offers some other possibilities about the cause of the problem.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/educati...1.1113401?62319

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...h-poverty-chasm


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eidas
post 18th Sep 2011, 09:04am
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QUOTE (GG @ 17th Sep 2011, 08:28pm) *
Hi eidas, and welcome to the boards.

Could you please explain why the comment regarding the poor levels of qualifications in Glasgow as being "another feather in the cap of the Labour administration" is inappropriate? I would remind you that the Labour admistration has overseen a truly shocking decline in standards in qualifications in Glasgow schools over the last 40 years. In addition, and contrary to what the education spokesperson for Glasgow City Council tells us, the attainment gap between Glasgow and neighbouring council areas is actually rising, i.e. inequality in education is worsening... and still we see no solutions offered by councillors of the dominant Labour administration.

That said, I was somewhat encouraged to read the following comments by Glasgow North East Labour MP, Willie Bain, who shows a welcome grasp of both the complexity and the importance of the issue. Of course, all we need now is action... not just impassioned words, no matter how wise!


Full article on Labour List:
http://www.labourlist.org/multiple-depriva...sgow-north-east

GG.

Inappropriate comment in this forum. Regardless of which political party has been in power for whatever number of years, in my opinion, would have made no difference to the situation. As I see it, discipline is the answer and this goes back a few generations, if parents and teachers did not experience discipline, how can they pass it on to their children and students? Perhaps a campaign across all forms of media with a slogan such as 'Please and Thank You' would be a good place to start.
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TeeHeeHee
post 18th Sep 2011, 10:42am
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QUOTE (eidas @ 18th Sep 2011, 09:50am) *
... Regardless of which political party has been in power for whatever number of years, in my opinion, would have made no difference to the situation. As I see it, discipline is the answer and this goes back a few generations ...

Surely if a Labour administration has, over several generations, removed the power from schools to administer disipline to pupils, then that Labour adminidstration must carry the can for the poor educational standards seen in schools all these generations later?
The old adage, spare the rod... springs to mind.


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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benny
post 18th Sep 2011, 11:58am
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Reintroducing the belt would do no good whatsoever. Hiv any of you actually looked at the size of some "weans" nooadays? Teachers hiv got merr tae fear frae gettin a duffin up frae the pupils than vice versa.


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bilbo.s
post 18th Sep 2011, 12:07pm
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Kalashnikovs it is then ! unsure.gif


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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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TeeHeeHee
post 18th Sep 2011, 02:08pm
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QUOTE (benny @ 18th Sep 2011, 12:44pm) *
... Hiv any of you actually looked at the size of some "weans" nooadays? Teachers hiv got merr tae fear frae gettin a duffin up frae the pupils than vice versa.

Nooadays? laugh.gif
I (neary 20 yrs old then) went up to Dollar wi' a mate of mine ... on the night the news of JFK's assasination came over ma tranny on the bus.
The Dollar schoolboys in short trousers who were givin' us outsiders from Glasgow a bit of hassle gave me the impression we were being faced by The All Blacks in blazers. laugh.gif


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glasgow lass
post 18th Sep 2011, 03:44pm
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a duffin !,,, laugh.gif laugh.gif
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ashfield
post 18th Sep 2011, 04:29pm
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Still going on about the belt rolleyes.gif

Again, the belt is banned across the country so why are the results elsewhere still high?

I get the feeling that everybody is looking for simple solutions to what is a complex problem.


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glasgow lass
post 18th Sep 2011, 04:52pm
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If I ruled the world every teacher would be given an assistant to help pick up the slack, slow learners are in every class and can really hold others back.I do not believe that kids have no interest in their studies so when a child is falling through the cracks a teacher should look much closer at the problem. I know that having an assistant in a class is really beneficial to teacher and students as I have seen it work wonders for the kids who could be left behind regardin grades.
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wee davy
post 18th Sep 2011, 05:22pm
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Good God, Lass,... I do hope your not suggesting people actually put their hands in their pockets and invest in children's futures?
You revolutionary, you laugh.gif


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