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> Recognition For Wallace Monument, Site of Wallace's historic betrayal
Scotsman
post 2nd Mar 2012, 01:44pm
Post #16


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When I was at school.... cue violins.... we didnt get much at all about Scottish history like William Wallace, Robert Bruce and Rabbie Burns so I think anything that helps kids learn about the history of their country is a good thing. Who could disagree with that?? Its a great history and one that should make the kids proud of their country and its better than all that tartan and shortbread stuff they try to sell the tourists in Edinburgh.

Come tae Glasgae.... theres culture and history and the best of people!!
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**Jim of Maryhill**
post 2nd Mar 2012, 03:55pm
Post #17






And mind, Glasgow had a history of 1,000 years when snooty Edinburgh was but a wee fort at the foot of yon volcanic plug.

And, nae surprise, Glasgow folk are much more friendly. Glasgow was voted the tops for rest and recuperation by troops of all nations during WW2.

Perhaps the finest history of Wallace to date is James Mackay's WILLIAM WALLACE Braveheart © 1995 some 20 pages of which mention Glasgow in the hero's history.

Jim of Maryhill
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TeeHeeHee
post 2nd Mar 2012, 04:29pm
Post #18


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Great news Martin; including the "Safe Transit" letter.


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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okiegal
post 2nd Mar 2012, 04:35pm
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I love everything about GGB. I am so very proud to be SCOTTISH & especially that I was born & bred in GLESGA. I would not trade my raising with anyone in the world. I have been in the States since 1961 & I'm married to an American, my kids were born in America & grandkids also. People ask why don't you become a citizen & I always tell them, I'm GLASGOW born, GLASGOW bred & when I die "No matter where I'm at I'm gonna be GLASGOW dead" You do a great job for GLASGOW by sticking up for what politicians don't seem to care about. Thank you. Okiegal.
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The Callands Reb...
post 2nd Mar 2012, 04:38pm
Post #20

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Thanks GG for this update.

Our group here in Southern America enjoy our Scottish Heritage
as well as our own.

Not to repeat but our Camp in glasgow offered numerous times to fund the restoration and monthly maintenance but we got no replies.

I guess the Glasgow Fathers (Council) viewed us as a butt-n-ski
American Capitalist group, but your ancestors though not American are part of our "Civil War Confederate Veterans Organization" as our American ancestors, no more, no less.

It must be catching, that is, the laxidaisical governments attitudes, blights on societies, I say, towards their own historical foundings. No wonder
the world is in turmoil, especially given our "LEADERSHIPS"

SCOTLAND FOR THE SCOTS, AMERICA FOR AMERICANS

LEST WE FORGET

Jerry

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TeeHeeHee
post 2nd Mar 2012, 04:39pm
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Way to go Okiegal. biggrin.gif


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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frame
post 2nd Mar 2012, 05:01pm
Post #22


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That's good news, maybe this particular Braveheart can rest a little easier now.. Vive L'cosse


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speed bonny boat
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**myagnes**
post 2nd Mar 2012, 05:03pm
Post #23






QUOTE (Jim Wilson @ 2nd Mar 2012, 04:33am) *
Thanks for keeping me informed in New Zealand of William Wallace. Although we may be far away our Scottish Heritage is still important to me.

Yes William Wallace was a great leader, it's too bad we don't don't have his type today, he led us once, let's hope we can get someone like him to lead us for independence, Scotland Forever, Let Glasgow Florish!
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**Duncan**
post 2nd Mar 2012, 07:35pm
Post #24






QUOTE (*Jim of Maryhill* @ 2nd Mar 2012, 03:00pm) *
And mind, Glasgow had a history of 1,000 years when snooty Edinburgh was but a wee fort at the foot of yon volcanic plug.

And, nae surprise, Glasgow folk are much more friendly. Glasgow was voted the tops for rest and recuperation by troops of all nations during WW2.

Perhaps the finest history of Wallace to date is James Mackay's WILLIAM WALLACE Braveheart 1995 some 20 pages of which mention Glasgow in the hero's history.

Jim of Maryhill

Are you serious? Mackay was done twice for plagiarism of 2 Pulitzer Prize winning books. His book on Wallace is a travesty of what little we know of the man, full of erroneous information & fiction. He also had a dodgy background stealing priceless stamps from the British Museum & selling them to collectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Mackay
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Grampar
post 2nd Mar 2012, 08:39pm
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So much for peoples efforts over the centuries to maintain our Scots identity when you get so many so called Scots ranting about how unimportant the Wallace Well monument is. I for one believe it is important to maintain our connections with our past for the benefit of our children and grandchildren. I have stopped visiting the G.G. as I find so many of your regular contributors tend to trivialize every subject and use the discussion board as a place to score points of one and other. So farewell my fellow Glaswegians at home, in Scotland, and abroad. Sad to say I won't really miss you. Nor, I suspect, many of you; me.
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*bobbystevenson*
post 2nd Mar 2012, 11:50pm
Post #26






Delighted that something has at last been done to highlight Wallaces Well and Monument. I often cycled there from Auchinloch where I was brought up as a boy. I was apalled to see the poor state of the well, and the close proximity of the houses surrounding the monument on my last visit. I now live in Ayr where millions have been spent by The National Trust on a new museum to Rabbie Burns. A bit over the top, but what a contrast!

Bobby Stevenson
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GG
post 3rd Mar 2012, 02:27pm
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QUOTE (Guest @ 2nd Mar 2012, 11:06am) *
Historic Scotland is correct in its assertion that the Wallace Monument at Robroyston is of little historic significance.

No-one, not even Historic Scotland, disputes the historical significance of the Robroyston Wallace Monument as marking the site of the barn where Wallace lost his freedom. In this country though, such significance does not guarantee either protection or respect.

Where myself and historial experts (I am not an expert) disagree with Historic Scotland is in the historical significance of Wallace's Well.

From the Robroyston site:
QUOTE
In a very worrying revelation, The Sunday Herald reveals that Wallace's Well, which has been "quietly stripped of its protected status six years ago, could be faced with destruction". The article continues: "The Scottish William Wallace Society has claimed that the removal of the well's listed status was never properly publicised, and that as a result the site may be erased by housing development without the chance for anyone to protest". The decision that the 'B'-listed well site, just half a mile from the Robroyston Wallace Monument that signifies the place where Wallace was captured in 1305, was deemed "of little historical interest" was taken in 1993 by Historic Scotland and supported by Glasgow City Council.

A spokesman for Historic Scotland confirmed that Wallace's Well was no longer B-listed as a site of 'regional or more than local importance' under new guidelines. According to the HS spokesman, the swell site could not be "substantiated with any evidence". Responding, Dr Gilbert Bell, the curator at Springburn Museum and a local Robroyston historian, was contemptuous of the reasons for dropping the well's listed status when he says: "If Wallace stayed in the house, that's where he would drink from. All over Scotland there are Wallace wells and Wallace leaps, but this site is not disputed as he was captured there. The site is every bit as important as Bannockburn and is part of Scotland's high road to independence". (Source: The Sunday Herald, August 29, 1999)

I think if we look at what has happened at both sites in the last twenty years (and what is planned for the near future), we will be able to be able to deduce another scenario for the removal of the 'protected status' from Wallace's Well.

GG.


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GG
post 4th Mar 2012, 12:52pm
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QUOTE (andyguinness @ 2nd Mar 2012, 09:35am) *
I have been told many years past that the name Robroyston is actually the name given to the area, after the person who betrayed Wallace, his first name was Rau ra, if this is the right way to spell his name.

Therefore the area given to him by the English was called Rauratoun, again, i do not know if this is the correct spelling and over the course of the years it became known as it is now called.

Can anyone verify this or rubbish it?

Andy, regarding the origin of the name of Robroyston, I have also read/heard that it is a linguistic corruption of the original name for the area: Rab Rae's Toon. Apparently, Rab Rae being a prominent landowner at one time.

Some sources say that Wallace was staying on a farm belonging to Rab Rae when he was captured, and that Rae betrayed Wallace to Sir John de Menteith, a Scottish nobleman who had pledged to serve Edward Longshanks. Personally, I don't think that a farmer could have so quickly informed Menteith of Wallace's location. Remember that Wallace had been on the run from the most powerful man in Europe for many years, so it is highly unlikely that he would have announced his arrival at the farm in advance. After he arrived, he would have made sure that the farmer would have had little or no opportunity to communicate Wallace's whereabouts. In addition, although Wallace travelled relatively lightly, such was Wallace's reputation that Menteith would have had to have prepared a mobile and heavily-armed force to capture Wallace at short notice.

My thoughts are that Wallace was betrayed by either (i) Bishop Wishart of Glasgow (the Robroyston farmland belonged to the clergy), or (ii) Robert Bruce, the future king of Scotland, who was later to give substantial land to Menteith. Quite possibly, he was betrayed by both these very powerful men who would have believed that Wallace was both an obstacle to their own ambitions and to the best interests of Scotland at that time.

GG.


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GG
post 4th Mar 2012, 07:34pm
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... seen from the geopolitical perspective of the Middle Ages, of course, if Wishart or Bruce had 'betrayed' Wallace, they would not have see it as a betrayal. Rather, they would have viewed it as a sacrifice worth making to give the Scottish prelates and magnates time to further the strategic cause of independence given that Edward I would not bargain while Wallace still a free man.

Some authors have postulated that Wallace's refusal to compromise and negotiate on the central issues associated with Scottish independence made the commoner a less effective political leader. Not surprisingly, it is Wallace's refusal to compromise and bargain that have made him such an outstanding national hero.

GG.


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wee davy
post 4th Mar 2012, 08:28pm
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Bishop Wishart has long been my own 'favourite' with respect to Willie's subsequent demise - although I certainly agree with you regards the political expediency, GG.

Whoever did it, was sure to have been paid handsomely.

What IS for sure monument or no. Wallace will forever be synonymous with Scotland. Personally, having read extensively on various pontifications
- my firm view is,

1) He was always going to come to a bad end
2) He lives on in the beating heart of every true Scot
3) His legend is much MUCH better than King Arthur's lol


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