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> Glasgow: Worst Schools In Britain?, City bottom of UK qualifications league
Dylan
post 16th Sep 2011, 03:12pm
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John aged 7 hits James age 7 in the playground.

Teacher hits James to teach him that hitting John was bad.

John now wonders why it was ok for Teacher to hit him, if it was wrong for him to hit James.

Teacher tells him that it is ok to hit someone who hits someone.

John is confused.!


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**Catherine**
post 16th Sep 2011, 04:15pm
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I went to one of the first comprehensive schools in the UK in the 1950's, ie Crookston Castle, which sadly no longer exists. We had some of the best teachers anywhere and although I was miffed at not going to Shawlands Academy like my older brother, looking back I don't think it did me any harm.
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wee davy
post 16th Sep 2011, 06:36pm
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QUOTE (Dylan @ 16th Sep 2011, 03:58pm) *
John aged 7 hits James age 7 in the playground.
Teacher hits James to teach him that hitting John was bad.
John now wonders why it was ok for Teacher to hit him, if it was wrong for him to hit James.

Teacher tells him that it is ok to hit someone who hits someone.

John is confused.!

2011

John aged 7 kicks James age 7 in the head, as a Teacher stands by, powerless.

James finishes up with brain damage.

John is sent for therapy.

Who's confused now?


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bilbo.s
post 16th Sep 2011, 06:58pm
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Well said, wee man ! smile.gif


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lord anthony
post 16th Sep 2011, 08:21pm
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QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 16th Sep 2011, 08:11am) *
Memory has just been refreshed. tongue.gif

From my Man Management course in the RAF ...



biggrin.gif

This is why women have ALL the power. Men are always trying to wrestle or bully each other with rules while women control and manipulate them. Look at the matriarchy of Roman empire, lasted centuries.

If things are getting better it's because we're slowly figuring out how to work together, not by men "enforcing" bloody rules.
My formative years were miserable because of rules.
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Dylan
post 16th Sep 2011, 08:46pm
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QUOTE (wee davy @ 16th Sep 2011, 07:22pm) *
2011

John aged 7 kicks James age 7 in the head, as a Teacher stands by, powerless.

James finishes up with brain damage.

John is sent for therapy.

Who's confused now?

John is, he did not kick James on the head.

You made that up in the opinion it would enhance your argument for violence towards children.

It did not.

Can you think of no alternative to violence on children ?

Do you have children ? Do you hit them and would you be happy if someone else had the right to hit them if they alone thought fit ?

John then went to Janice who suggested he sit on a mat.

John sat on the mat.

I know this is true because I read all the " John and Janet " books..


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glasgow lass
post 16th Sep 2011, 10:53pm
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See John run
See Janet run faster tongue.gif
Its never OK to strike a child or scream at a child for that matter.
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TeeHeeHee
post 16th Sep 2011, 11:04pm
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QUOTE (lord anthony @ 16th Sep 2011, 09:07pm) *
... not by men "enforcing" bloody rules.
My formative years were miserable because of rules.

If we didn't like the rules we could opt out of the forces; give the Queen her shilling back. wink.gif
In todays society, if they don't like the rules they torch the city.
My formative years were informative; including how to live with, or without, rules set by parents, church and school.
By the time I accepted the Queen's shilling I was a wee expert in bending rules. tongue.gif

nil illegitimus carborundum. biggrin.gif


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eidas
post 16th Sep 2011, 11:11pm
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QUOTE (Norman G @ 15th Sep 2011, 06:38pm) *
Another feather in the cap of the Labour administration.
But never mind, just vote them in again.

Inappropriate comment!
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tamhickey
post 17th Sep 2011, 04:09am
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I was brought up and educated in what is now regarded as the worst performing area of educational attainment in the U.K.
It seems almost inconceivable that educational standards have been allowed to fall as far as they have. When I was a child, my parents taught me to read prior to going to school, and my dad was in the TGWU who laid on education classes which helped with this. This meant I had a head start compared to some others when I went to St. Marthas, though not all; it seemed that some other parents had the same idea and we were asked to help the other children improve. This was a great way to bond young people together and forge friendships. The same applied where maths was a difficulty and had us thinking about and discussing the lessons afterwards.
This was a program of learning where no child was deemed more worthy than another and improvements, however slight were lauded. This gave confidence and allowed a lot of children a breathing space.
I went on to All Saints secondary and in first year, we were taught the Greek Classics, though quite why we were only taught in first year is a mystery. We also had drama classes and as part of our English classes we would occasionally be allowed to watch these new fangled videos which were pertinent to our understanding. Little did I know that in later years I would go on to help make and produce films.
I left school with three O grades, bitterly disappointed that it wasn't the five I had hoped for.
Years later, I went back to college and got a few Highers, realising that I was by now a much wiser person who had experienced so much more of life and read so much more during the intervening years and loved every second of it, including the homework!
It's always good to challenge yourself; I do hope that the teachers in Glasgow are up to the coming challenge.
Sadly though, I doubt if are able to. They don't have the finances we did in the 70's, they are given much more beaureacracy and form filling, they aren't funded to teach the Greek classics anymore, PE as a discipline seems to be on the decline, the students see no future for them as more and more people lose their jobs and the jobs in this area are miniscule.
It's my view that there ought to be more vocational qualifications available so that everybody, of whatever skills is able to use them.
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bilbo.s
post 17th Sep 2011, 07:54am
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QUOTE (eidas @ 17th Sep 2011, 12:57am) *
Inappropriate comment!

Inappropriate comment !!


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Dave Grieve
post 17th Sep 2011, 08:06am
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John must be really thick if he doesn't realise he is being punished for doing something he is not suposed to do.
First thing anybody learns at school is to follow the rules, big No No when I was at school
NO FIGHTING!!! or you will suffer the consequence.

Perhaps in todays namby pamby society kids are encouraged to be lawyers instead of law abiding citizens who learn to live with one another.
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GG
post 17th Sep 2011, 09:42am
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QUOTE (eidas @ 16th Sep 2011, 11:57pm) *
Inappropriate comment!

Hi eidas, and welcome to the boards.

Could you please explain why the comment regarding the poor levels of qualifications in Glasgow as being "another feather in the cap of the Labour administration" is inappropriate? I would remind you that the Labour admistration has overseen a truly shocking decline in standards in qualifications in Glasgow schools over the last 40 years. In addition, and contrary to what the education spokesperson for Glasgow City Council tells us, the attainment gap between Glasgow and neighbouring council areas is actually rising, i.e. inequality in education is worsening... and still we see no solutions offered by councillors of the dominant Labour administration.

That said, I was somewhat encouraged to read the following comments by Glasgow North East Labour MP, Willie Bain, who shows a welcome grasp of both the complexity and the importance of the issue. Of course, all we need now is action... not just impassioned words, no matter how wise!

QUOTE
The recent University and College Union analysis of the number of adults without any educational qualifications across Britain has provoked genuine concern and debate about inequality and social mobility in our country. Over 12% of Scots lack any formal qualifications, but in seats such as Glasgow North East with high levels of inter-generational poverty and unemployment, some 35% of adults are without any qualifications at all. Local schoolchildren in Dennistoun and Robroyston recently lobbied me to ensure that their classmates in Africa have the right to an empowering education. The tragedy is that through a combination of social breakdown, lack of work, the absence of aspiration among the young, and expensive childcare, it has almost become acceptable to consider such inequality as inevitable in Glasgow.

In an economy where the shift from unskilled and semi-skilled labour to knowledge-based and high skill jobs is continuing apace, ending this situation is vital if we are to avoid not just a lost generation of young people without the skills or chance for work as in the 1980s and 1990s, but entire communities becoming dislocated from society, and locked into a downwards spiral of despair, poverty, ill-health, and apathy. ...

We must be creative in our thinking on skills and the education system. There are too few incentives for people to study or improve their skills after their mid-twenties, not only to improve their job prospects or to enhance their earning power, but to improve their wellbeing and quality of life. In north and east Glasgow, schoolteachers tell me the biggest enemy in pupil attainment is apathy in the home and a lack of aspiration. There are too few role models to draw upon in local communities, and links between schools, colleges and universities must improve. We must break down the barriers which insulate the talented in poor communities from taking life-changing opportunities. As a university lecturer, I found one of the best ways to show pupils that they were talented enough to go to University was to visit schools and offer mini-classes. Schools in poorer communities need the most passionate, cleverest and committed people to teach in them. The job of helping turn around the prospects of disempowered young people through education must count for more than a trader involved in commodity speculation. We need our best graduates for this task, and we need to reward them accordingly, following initiatives elsewhere such as Teach First. We need bolder leadership in our schools to refuse to tolerate a culture of underachievement and apathy towards children's education, through introducing education contracts between schools, pupils, and their parents.

A transformation in education, skills, and the way we look at work and welfare are required to tackle these inequalities. The education and social mobility conference I am hosting at North Glasgow College on August 26th will be the start of that process. It may take a generation, but politicians and civic society must begin the task now to save thousands of Glaswegians from a future unworthy of their great talents and abilities.

Full article on Labour List:
http://www.labourlist.org/multiple-depriva...sgow-north-east

GG.


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GG
post 17th Sep 2011, 10:04am
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Regarding Mr Bain's concern:
QUOTE
... Local schoolchildren in Dennistoun and Robroyston recently lobbied me to ensure that their classmates in Africa have the right to an empowering education. The tragedy is that through a combination of social breakdown, lack of work, the absence of aspiration among the young, and expensive childcare, it has almost become acceptable to consider such inequality as inevitable in Glasgow. ...

I think he would find that the local schoolchildren who lobbied him did so as a direct result of the 'lobbying' of their teachers, who themselves were 'lobbied' by education officials who appear to concentrate way too much on what is happening in Africa, and not enough on what is happening in the schools to which they have a civic and professional responsibility... not to mention a moral one!

QUOTE
Improving education in Malawi
Friday 09 September 2011

The council announces an exciting new partnership to improve learning and teaching in Malawi.

Malawi Leaders of Learning (MLOL) is a unique opportunity set-up by Glasgow City Council and a new Scottish partnership being forged between the council’s education services and Malawi’s South West Division.

A new website for the project has just been launched with details of what is planned for this long-term project.

MLOL is a two-way charity and development scheme aimed at sharing resources and expertise between the two countries and ultimately improve the quality of learning and teaching in a challenging environment.

The council is working closing with two well-known charities on this exciting project, Link Community Development and Mary’s Meals, both already committed to changing the life chances of Malawi’s children. ...

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/News/Malawi+l...of+learning.htm

GG.


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GG
post 17th Sep 2011, 10:40am
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SCHOOLS TOLD TO BRING BACK CANING?

I think it's a valid point to raise, after all the decline in education standards did seem to time nicely with the removal of corporal punishment in schools. However, it also coincided with the brutal rise of neo-liberal policies which subverted the needs of community to the avarice of the 'free market' system.

While not wanting to go off-topic to a subject we have already discussed at great length, my own personal opinion regarding whether we should bring back corporal punishment to 21st Century schools is no. Here's my reasoning:

The goal of schools today is completely different to what it was when the belt was effective. In the past, schools – especially working-class ones – were designed to produce obedient workers for mundane, repetitive manual jobs. Thinking for yourself was largely not required, whereas discipline was very important, as was knowing 'your place' in the bigger scheme of things. Thus, belting kids was in fact beneficial to producing effective workers for the industrial economy: kids who, as future workers, would do what they were told, unquestioningly, and who knew the consequences of not paying attention to the task given to them. Today, the situation is vastly different. Our economy needs innovative, creative and adaptable workers for knowledge industries. Thinking for yourself is a fundamental prerequisite for developing these attributes, as is individuality, and even – to an extent – challenging convention and authority (teachers don't always know best). Therefore, I think re-introducing the belt would be counter-productive to the goal of modern schools.

That said – and here's the rub for us all to think about – if the goal of our schools in Glasgow is merely to produce children who are feeders of the middle-class poverty industry, then perhaps the Daily Express/Mail is right... and maybe we should all just shut up, do what we are told and trust that our 'betters' know better than us!

GG.


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