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> The Poppy, Floors o the forest
Rab-oldname
post 12th Nov 2011, 08:49pm
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Aye, Gavrilo Princip had a lot to answer for.
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TeeHeeHee
post 13th Nov 2011, 12:44am
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His name was fate.


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"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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Tommy Kennedy
post 13th Nov 2011, 01:27am
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I have mixed feelings on 'Poppy day' - hesitated to post, not wishing to offend those who have lost family in conflicts.

The 'Establishment' does FORGET: In the present day we have an almost daily drip of our young men being killed in Afganistan - an obscene waste of life while the establishment tries to work out a 'face saving plan' to get the hell outa there.
Then we had the aggressive wars -post WW2 of our Establishment trying to hang on to it's remmants of Empire, particulary Cyprus/Malaya - telling us we were fighting commies or terrorists-LIES - many of our young conscripts killed.

Nor do I think the British Legion takes on the government enough on behalf of our service men, particulary the serious wounded.

My Father's best friend was an old soldier called 'Casey'-WW1
He lived in extreme poverty in a single end slum. He only had one arm and limped badly. Always had a terrible cough - Father said it was because he had been gassed WW1 - always wore a big overcoat summer/winter. He would come to our house often- was very clever at 'cartoon drawing'.
Using a clip board he would make drawings of cartoon charactors for us kids - always had a great sense of humour.
One day at school we had to make our own poppys - I came home wearing mine; Casey was in the house: 'Look' I said proudly,'This is for us to remember those that gave their lifes for us' - THe first time I saw Casey show anger:
'Don't wearr that poppy, son, it gloryfies war' Casey said.
'Aye, my Father said, 'it costs them nothing to remember the dead' but they forget the likes of you, you're too costly for them'
I have never worn a poppy, for when I see them I have a visoun of old Casey.
I also remember how Brit service men were treated in Korea, poor equipemt, lousy conditions, lousy food, tho I didn't suffer that as I was attached to the G.Is

Those of my generation will remember ex-wounded service men, of WW1 in Glasgow town centere selling matches or boot laces.
Aye, remember how those ex service men that survived WW1 were treated while General Haig was given a half million pounds by a grateful Brit Esatblishment - but of course the 'Dead' were rememberd!

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Isobel
post 13th Nov 2011, 03:00am
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I always wear the poppy. To remember those who served ,the ones who did not come home and also the ones who did.To me its like saying thank you for your courage and for serving your country.
The money from the sale of these poppies also helps young folks who need artificial limbs.


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angel
post 13th Nov 2011, 04:08am
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Why the Poppy?
Today, fields of brilliant poppies still grow in France.
A writer first made the connection between the poppy and battlefield deaths during the Napoleonic wars of the early 19th century, remarking that fields that were barren before battle exploded with the blood-red flowers after the fighting ended.

During the tremendous bombardments of the First World War the chalk soils became rich in lime from rubble, allowing 'popaver rhoeas' to thrive. When the war ended the lime was quickly absorbed, and the poppy began to disappear again.

After John McCrae's poem In Flanders Fields was published in 1915 the poppy became a popular symbol for soldiers who died in battle.

Three years later an American, Moina Michael, was working in a New York City YMCA canteen when she started wearing a poppy in memory of the millions who died on the battlefield.

During a 1920 visit to the United States a French woman, Madame Guerin, learned of the custom. On her return to France she decided to use handmade poppies to raise money for the destitute children in war-torn areas of the country. In November, 1921, the first poppies were distributed in Canada.

Thanks to the millions of Canadians who wear flowers each November, the little red plant has never died. And neither have Canadian's memories for 116,031 of their countrymen who died in battle.


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angel
post 13th Nov 2011, 05:03am
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QUOTE
In Flanders Fields
by John McCrae, May 1915

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


Birth: November 30, 1872 in Guelph, Ontario
Death: January 28, 1918 in Boulogne, France
Education:
• BA - University of Toronto 1894
• Bachelor of Medicine - University of Toronto 1898
•Interned at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, Maryland
Professions:
John McCrae was a doctor, soldier, poet and artist.


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jeep
post 13th Nov 2011, 09:06am
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Angel, Loved the poem and the information on the Poppy smile.gif

Jeep
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Tommy Kennedy
post 13th Nov 2011, 10:47am
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QUOTE (Isobel @ 13th Nov 2011, 03:26am) *
I always wear the poppy. To remember those who served ,the ones who did not come home and also the ones who did.To me its like saying thank you for your courage and for serving your country.
The money from the sale of these poppies also helps young folks who need artificial limbs.


I agree with your sentiments, Isobel.
But the seriously wounded should not have to rely on charity for help That is obscene.
Many of our service men are still treated in Army parlance 'For the use of' - the use of politicians plans/wishes.
We have parades for returning 'fit' soldiers; if we had parades of the seriouly maimed for life it would make us more anti- war as our fellow euro countries are.- they suffered much more WW1 & WW2 than U.K. did.
In no way are our young men 'serving our country' in Afghanistan but creating another generation of Afghanistan civilians hating us. Britain had colonial war experiance in the past in Afghanistan - and 'we' were the aggressors then and should know better now. If Russia could not 'conqeur' Afghanistan no one can. War is a way of life for Afghanistan and a country cannot change, be forced to change from 'outside'. As was said in Viet-nam; who will be the last squaddie to die while the politicains come up with a 'face saving plan' to get out of Afghanistan.

It could be said it's understandable the U.S., having no experience of 'colonia'l wars, other than dominating South pacific islands in the 19th- early 20th century, believing that with superior techonolgy/weapons they could defeat, bring about change in other countries, but the U.K did have experience, even post WW2 when they tried and failed, with superior techonlogy/waepons to hold on to remants of empire -even on our doorstep - N.Ireland,- the I.R.A. they learned the hard way the I.R.A. could not be militerary defeated.

The object of going in to Afghanistan was 'Right' - by U.S. - to destroy terrorist training camps; that was accomplished by 'Air power' and can be continued to be accomplished air power.
The 'boots on ground' only gives the well experienced Afghanistans 'targets of hit and run'

I would have more respect for the 'British Legion' if they called for an end to the obscene waste of life of our young men in Afghanistan.
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Tommy Kennedy
post 13th Nov 2011, 11:15am
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P.S. - I would add, as we are seeing in the Arab world, that it is education, modern technology, communications that free people from oppresive regimes - not interferance by other nations. As I've posted before, it is more difficult now for 'States' to have complete control over 'propoganda' as they had in yester year. Even the mobile phone with a camera and the internet gets news out of the Syrian uprising -that could all be 'hidden' to the world in yesteryear!!!
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angel
post 13th Nov 2011, 05:02pm
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Royal Canadian Legion
CANADA’S LARGEST VETERANS ORGANIZATION

There are many veterans’ organizations in Canada but the largest by far is The Royal Canadian Legion with over 358,000 members and affiliates. The members belong to the following membership categories:

Ordinary (serving and retired military, RCMP personnel, provincial and municipal police forces);
Associate (direct relative of an ordinary member, cadet instructors, cadets, Navy League officers, firefighters); and
Affiliates (voting and non-voting friends of the Legion).
In addition, there are approximately 40,000 registered members of the Ladies Auxiliary who provide invaluable support to the Branches of the Legion and their fundraising activities. Serving members of the Canadian Forces may also join the “Military Member-At-Large” branch or a regular active branch.

The Legion is a non-profit, dues-supported, fraternal organization with approximately 1,500 branches in Canada, the United States, Germany and The Netherlands. The Legion receives no financial assistance from any outside agency and membership is open to all Canadian citizens and Commonwealth subjects who subscribe to the purposes and objects of the organization.

From the time of its formation in 1926, the Legion has focused its efforts on the fight to secure adequate pensions and other well-earned benefits for veterans and their dependants. Acting as an advocacy agency on veterans’ behalf, the Legion deals directly with the Federal Government to ensure ex-military personnel and their dependants are treated fairly.
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The Royal Canadian Legion has also assumed a major responsibility for perpetuating the tradition of Remembrance in Canada. Each year the Legion organizes and runs the National Poppy Campaign to remind Canadians of the tremendous debt we owe to the 117,000 men and women who have given their lives in the defence of Canada during two world wars, the Korean War and other military missions around the world. Contributions made during the campaign are used to assist needy veterans, ex-service members and their families.

The Legion also supports programs for seniors, particularly through direct community-level activities, the Legion Long term care Surveyor Program and a Housing Program. The Legion’s Youth program provides scholarships and bursaries, sports programs and support to activities such as cadets, scouts and guides.


This aint too shabby ...




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angel
post 13th Nov 2011, 05:05pm
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Angel, Loved the poem and the information on the Poppy

Jeep
You are welcome , Jeep smile.gif


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Jim D
post 13th Nov 2011, 11:58pm
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Although I always wear the poppy, I remember that my father refused to wear one. NOT for the cause but in protest of the person the fund was named after - Earl Haig. Probably the biggest contributor to the deaths of the 1 world war.
It did not help things that he lost a brother on the 1st day of WW2. He had 2 brothers who were merchant seamen. On worked as a steward on the "rent run" Scotland to America. The other was on a ship on South America. The last of his "rent runs" was a sailing to Canada in the Athenia, the last ship to leave GB before war was declared. It was sank by a U-boat in the atlantic off the coast of Ireland 9 hrs after war was declared.
He opened the door when the dreaded telegram was delivered. My dad was 11yrs old at the time. The other brother heard of the sinking on the world news and heard that it had been a miraculous rescue with less than 200 deaths. A year later, he is returning from South America and is on the tram heading back to Govan when the clippy offered him her condolences. It was only then that he realised his young brother never made it. Mt father opened the door to his eldest brother, who was crying like a baby.


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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit - NO man is at all hours wise.
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angel
post 14th Nov 2011, 01:31am
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Hi Jim D. I did'nt know that the Earl Haig fund was the same as the British Legion , I thought two seperate funds/organisations.
Also Jim ,there are I'm sure , many who can relate so many stories such as your own . sad.gif
Regarding Field Marshall Haig , it is just beyond comprehension , that he was allowed to continue with his madness and be the cause of hundreds of thousands of deaths all because he was on the biggest Ego trip ever in military history , " he and his horses ".


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Jim D
post 14th Nov 2011, 02:37pm
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I remember years ago watching the film "Oh What A lovely War". It depicted the deaths on a cricket score board but the numbers were spinning like a stop watch. Earl Haig was on a wooden platform praying ..."god give me victory..........before the americans come!".


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Jim D

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit - NO man is at all hours wise.
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Jim D
post 14th Nov 2011, 02:40pm
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QUOTE (angel @ 14th Nov 2011, 01:57am) *
Hi Jim D. I did'nt know that the Earl Haig fund was the same as the British Legion , I thought two seperate funds/organisations.
Also Jim ,there are I'm sure , many who can relate so many stories such as your own . sad.gif
Regarding Field Marshall Haig , it is just beyond comprehension , that he was allowed to continue with his madness and be the cause of hundreds of thousands of deaths all because he was on the biggest Ego trip ever in military history , " he and his horses ".


Angel, I believe there was a merger and name change about 5 years ago and it is now called poppyscotland (in Scotland of course).


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Jim D

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit - NO man is at all hours wise.
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