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> Catalonia
john.mcn
post 14th Oct 2017, 04:46pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 14th Oct 2017, 11:44am) *
Why shouldn't i quote Thatcher John?

Never said you couldn't but it's nice to know that 'The SNP' agrees with Thatcher...again laugh.gif
QUOTE
Of course we have voted to remain so far (i never said we hadn't) we never had a choice to join though, and your quote could equally be used for our right to remain in the EU.


Scotland did join though, although suffrage was not as available to the common masses as it is now the Scottish parliament did vote to dissolve itself and join in a Union with England. That is of course I assume that by using 'we' you are referring to Scotland and not commenting on people who were alive 300 odd years.
The quote cannot be used as you say as the last line states that the Scots cannot insist on their own terms for remaining in the Union, for that needs to majority of the voting public in the UK (as the UK is the member)which was achieved when most people voted to leave the EU just the same as voted to remain in the UK.


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JAGZ1876
post 14th Oct 2017, 05:45pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Oct 2017, 05:46pm) *
Never said you couldn't but it's nice to know that 'The SNP' agrees with Thatcher...again laugh.gif


Scotland did join though, although suffrage was not as available to the common masses as it is now the Scottish parliament did vote to dissolve itself and join in a Union with England. That is of course I assume that by using 'we' you are referring to Scotland and not commenting on people who were alive 300 odd years.



They don't John, i'm not a spokesperson for the SNP.

The "we" as i was referring to was the majority of the people of Scotland.

But you knew that. yes.gif
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john.mcn
post 14th Oct 2017, 05:49pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 14th Oct 2017, 05:45pm) *
They don't John, i'm not a spokesperson for the SNP.

The "we" as i was referring to was the majority of the people of Scotland.

But you knew that. yes.gif



Well over 300 years ago the majority of the people did not have the vote, the majority of those who did voted to dissolve the Scottish parliament though

But you knew that. yes.gif

cool.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 14th Oct 2017, 06:34pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Oct 2017, 06:49pm) *
Well over 300 years ago the majority of the people did not have the vote, the majority of those who did voted to dissolve the Scottish parliament though

But you knew that. yes.gif

cool.gif



The ones that did vote for a union were not doing it for the majority of the people of Scotland but for their own self interest and profit.

But you knew that as well. yes.gif
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wombat
post 14th Oct 2017, 06:59pm
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laugh.gif laugh.gif boom boom thumbup.gif


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because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

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wombat
post 14th Oct 2017, 07:09pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 14th Oct 2017, 06:34pm) *
The ones that did vote for a union were not doing it for the majority of the people of Scotland but for their own self interest and profit.


hey M8 same shit, different day yes.gif


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john.mcn
post 14th Oct 2017, 07:16pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 14th Oct 2017, 06:34pm) *
The ones that did vote for a union were not doing it for the majority of the people of Scotland but for their own self interest and profit.

But you knew that as well. yes.gif


Of course they weren't but thats neither here nor there, there was a vote in the Scottish parliament and that was to dissolve said parliament to form a political union with England. Dont try to quote history then twist it to suit your agenda. We, as in Scotland, did vote to join in a political union with England


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wombat
post 14th Oct 2017, 07:47pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Oct 2017, 08:16pm) *
.

Dont try to quote history then twist it to suit your agenda. We, as in Scotland, did vote to join in a political union with England


laugh.gif we watched from afar while every a..hole under the sun interfered in scotlands referendum (very democratic) laugh.gif



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john.mcn
post 14th Oct 2017, 08:08pm
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QUOTE (wombat @ 14th Oct 2017, 07:47pm) *
laugh.gif we watched from afar while every a..hole under the sun interfered in scotlands referendum (very democratic) laugh.gif


And Nicola Sturgeon gave her views on Trump and the Catalan referendum possibly peeing them off in the process.


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bilbo.s
post 14th Oct 2017, 09:49pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Oct 2017, 10:08pm) *
And Nicola Sturgeon gave her views on Trump and the Catalan referendum possibly peeing them off in the process.



Just as you do to us, giving your views on anything, ya wee Tory/Trump supporter!


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JAGZ1876
post 15th Oct 2017, 10:28am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 14th Oct 2017, 08:16pm) *
We, as in Scotland, did vote to join in a political union with England


No, my "we" is the majority of the people of Scotland who had no say whatsoever in the decision to join England in a union.

Your "we" is the "such a parcel of rogues in a nation" (we're bought and sold for English gold) did, no twist in history at all, it's a fact.
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john.mcn
post 15th Oct 2017, 01:41pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 15th Oct 2017, 10:28am) *
No, my "we" is the majority of the people of Scotland who had no say whatsoever in the decision to join England in a union.

Your "we" is the "such a parcel of rogues in a nation" (we're bought and sold for English gold) did, no twist in history at all, it's a fact.



Jagz the 'we' as in the people you refer to died hundreds of years ago, they did not have the vote then nor anywhere else in Europe. There was no widespread democracy prior to that either, all our famous kings did not ask the wider public if they wanted to be ruled over but they did rule whether the lowly man or woman wanted them or not. For you ignore what happened in Parliaments simply because there wasn't 'one adult one vote' is laughable. Scotland had a parliament who sat in chambers and passed laws.
Going by your logic then 'we' did not go to war in 1914 because women couldn't vote or in 1939 because adults under 21 were not allowed to vote until 1970. Hell, it was only recently that 16 and 17 year olds were given the right to vote in Scotland so does that mean everything prior to that does not count. rolleyes.gif


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bilbo.s
post 15th Oct 2017, 03:53pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 15th Oct 2017, 03:41pm) *
Jagz the 'we' as in the people you refer to died hundreds of years ago, they did not have the vote then nor anywhere else in Europe. There was no widespread democracy prior to that either, all our famous kings did not ask the wider public if they wanted to be ruled over but they did rule whether the lowly man or woman wanted them or not. For you ignore what happened in Parliaments simply because there wasn't 'one adult one vote' is laughable. Scotland had a parliament who sat in chambers and passed laws.
Going by your logic then 'we' did not go to war in 1914 because women couldn't vote or in 1939 because adults under 21 were not allowed to vote until 1970. Hell, it was only recently that 16 and 17 year olds were given the right to vote in Scotland so does that mean everything prior to that does not count. rolleyes.gif



wacko.gif


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JAGZ1876
post 15th Oct 2017, 04:28pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 15th Oct 2017, 02:41pm) *
Jagz the 'we' as in the people you refer to died hundreds of years ago, they did not have the vote then nor anywhere else in Europe. There was no widespread democracy prior to that either, all our famous kings did not ask the wider public if they wanted to be ruled over but they did rule whether the lowly man or woman wanted them or not. For you ignore what happened in Parliaments simply because there wasn't 'one adult one vote' is laughable. Scotland had a parliament who sat in chambers and passed laws.
Going by your logic then 'we' did not go to war in 1914 because women couldn't vote or in 1939 because adults under 21 were not allowed to vote until 1970. Hell, it was only recently that 16 and 17 year olds were given the right to vote in Scotland so does that mean everything prior to that does not count. rolleyes.gif



I know they are dead now John, no one is arguing that, the point i made was the people of Scotland never voted for a union with England, the rest of your post is moot points.
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john.mcn
post 15th Oct 2017, 08:44pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 15th Oct 2017, 04:28pm) *
I know they are dead now John, no one is arguing that, the point i made was the people of Scotland never voted for a union with England, the rest of your post is moot points.



The 'people of Scotland' did not have the right to vote in the first place. Your use of the word 'we' is the problem due to the aforementioned fact and that every person around then is long dead. This leaves the ones that could vote and most did back the formation of the Union.
Ohh and 'we' did not vote for another referendum, like back then it was the politicians.

Anyway i started this so as not to be off topic in the Indy thread but this is now turned into a Scotland thread so I wont entertain any more rubbish about twisting historical facts to suit an agenda

QUOTE
Catalonia: No sign of movement as Spanish deadline looms



The leader of Spain's Catalonia region has attended a commemoration less than 24 hours before a Spanish deadline to give his final say on independence.
Carles Puigdemont and other senior politicians paid tribute in Barcelona to a Catalan leader who was executed under Franco in the Civil War.
He said his government was "against aggression and against imposed rule".
Spain has given him until 10:00 (08:00 GMT) on Monday to clarify whether he has or has not declared independence.
If he confirms that he has, he will have until Thursday to withdraw the declaration or Catalonia, which has substantial autonomy, faces the prospect of direct rule from Madrid.

On Sunday, Mr Puigdemont and others including the Mayoress of Barcelona, Ada Colau, visited the grave of Lluis Companys near Montjuīc Castle on the 77th anniversary of his execution by firing squad.
The spokesman for Spain's ruling Popular Party, Pablo Casada, warned this week that Mr Puigdemont might end up like Companys, clarifying later that he had only meant he might end up in prison.


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