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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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JAGZ1876
post 5th Jun 2017, 10:47am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 5th Jun 2017, 11:17am) *
OK, great mathematician,you tell us what percentage to the nearest whole number it is.



Johns tumbleweed would come in handy for DJ's reply. laugh.gif
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john.mcn
post 5th Jun 2017, 08:07pm
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No can do Jagz, it's still in use waiting for you to post the wording of the Vow you claim hasn't been fulfilled. It's been two weeks since I asked and if I knew it would have been that hard I might not have asked.


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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JAGZ1876
post 7th Jun 2017, 10:23am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 5th Jun 2017, 09:07pm) *
No can do Jagz, it's still in use waiting for you to post the wording of the Vow you claim hasn't been fulfilled. It's been two weeks since I asked and if I knew it would have been that hard I might not have asked.



If you don't know the wording of the vow then why should i waste my time giving you it when it clearly went over your head the first time.

If you do look it up yourself you can come back and answer my question to you about which parts of the vow were actually delivered?
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john.mcn
post 7th Jun 2017, 08:39pm
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I do know the wording of the Vow, it is not me who is saying that it has not been upheld.
strange that you took the time to google Broons response in 2015 yet didn't just post the vow so that others can make up their own mind. That you once again refuse to post it and now say you wont waste your time basically screams that yer talking mince . If the Vow had not been fulfilled you would be posting it in large bold print, both as proof and as that rod you so wish to beat my back with.

Funny that after the vow was revealed just before the referendum I argued that is was just a promise to hold a talking shop to agree power transfer which would then have to be ratified by Westminster, which is exactly what happened. The SNP were involved in the talks, they voted for it in Holyrood and every single one of those 56 SNP MPs in Westminster also voted for the legislation... So what part of the Vow was not fulfilled, and why did the SNP vote for the legislation following the talks?

To answer your question you have now thrown back at me to avoid answering, the part of the Vow that was not fulfilled was that Holyrood is permanent. That cannot happen as parliament is sovereign (see the Brexit argument for clarification laugh.gif) and the people can always reject it, even democracy in those regards cannot be permanent.

So now that I've answered yours you should really answer mines as its been over two weeks


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JAGZ1876
post 8th Jun 2017, 12:37am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 7th Jun 2017, 09:39pm) *
I do know the wording of the Vow, it is not me who is saying that it has not been upheld.


So i don't need to explain it to you then, so you can tell me the parts that have been upheld then?


Come on now John, you've had over a fortnight tick tock, your precious Ruth No Surrender party is going to be in for a big disappointment in 24 hours.
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john.mcn
post 8th Jun 2017, 07:39am
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Just say that you wont post the vow because it shoots down your argument, anyone can see your diversion tactics to avoid posting it.
I see you've reverted to your wee childish digs, if yer no wae us yer agin us so you must be a tory loving Orangeman, yet you deny that you partake in sectarian politics.
The Tories know they wont win the most seats from Scotland, they dont have to. If the SNPs support shrinks then that makes their desire to win a referendum just a dream, job done in Davidsons book.


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JAGZ1876
post 8th Jun 2017, 12:40pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 8th Jun 2017, 08:39am) *
I see you've reverted to your wee childish digs, if yer no wae us yer agin us so you must be a tory loving Orangeman, yet you deny that you partake in sectarian politics.

If the SNPs support shrinks then that makes their desire to win a referendum just a dream, job done in Davidsons book.


Can you give an example of me accusing you of being "a tory loving Orangeman", or is it true to say that you've just made that smear against me up?

Win a referendum?

You do know this is a General election?

And if the Tory or Labour UK % of the vote is lower in the UK than the SNP's % of the vote in Scotland, is that game over for them too, or does a lower % of the vote only apply to the SNP?
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john.mcn
post 8th Jun 2017, 07:37pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 8th Jun 2017, 12:40pm) *
Can you give an example of me accusing you of being "a tory loving Orangeman", or is it true to say that you've just made that smear against me up?


Dont pull the wee victim act, you have called the Tory leader my hero more than once and your previous post referred to the Tories as MY precious Ruth No Surrender party, the phrase 'no surrender' is well known and attributed to one type of person, you know fine well what you were doing as anyone from the West of Scotland can see.
QUOTE
Win a referendum?

You do know this is a General election?

well the EU referendum had nothing to do with an Indy referendum but you and the 'aye or die' mob argued otherwise. The SNP also seem to be campaigning on devolved issues, why is that, cant be because they've not done very much for the last 2 years can it. I dont blame them, they have to follow the orders sent down from Bute house.

QUOTE
And if the Tory or Labour UK % of the vote is lower in the UK than the SNP's % of the vote in Scotland, is that game over for them too, or does a lower % of the vote only apply to the SNP?

Only one major party is insisting that we rerun the 2014 referendum. Most YESers flocked to the SNP after the referendum, a drop in support for them is a shift in opinion away from any referendum in the near future. Independence might transcend everything else to wee Nic but there are far more important things to the average person on the street.


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bilbo.s
post 8th Jun 2017, 09:10pm
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Are you now portraying yourself as an average person on the street? How depressing! sad.gif


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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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john.mcn
post 9th Jun 2017, 07:32am
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Only fanatics think everything else is second place to independence, it's not depressing that most people think there are far more important things to address in politics.


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Kemedian
post 9th Jun 2017, 08:04am
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QUOTE
With all 59 seats declared, the SNP won 36.9% of the votes, a drop of 13.1 percentage points since 2015.
The Scottish Tories doubled their share of the vote to 28.6%, with Labour up by 2.8 points at 27.1% and the Lib Dems down slightly to 6.8%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland

With the silly wee marches and campaign gaffes out of the way, the SNP is "reflecting" on its big policy at long last.

Could this cost Sturgeon her leadership if her Party's radicals revolt, or could the FM push on with that policy and risk losing more public support?

Let's hope she puts the people before the politicians for once. yes.gif
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bilbo.s
post 9th Jun 2017, 08:45am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Jun 2017, 10:04am) *
With the silly wee marches and campaign gaffes out of the way, the SNP is "reflecting" on its big policy at long last.

Could this cost Sturgeon her leadership if her Party's radicals revolt, or could the FM push on with that policy and risk losing more public support?

Let's hope she puts the people before the politicians for once. yes.gif


Typo? Did you not mean to refer to May? rolleyes.gif


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Kemedian
post 9th Jun 2017, 08:53am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 9th Jun 2017, 09:45am) *
Typo? Did you not mean to refer to May? rolleyes.gif

May doesn't want Indyref2, hence many voters have returned to the Tories from the SNP, which is obviously due to Brexit. Both Westminster and Holyrood now have hung Parliaments. I'll be surprised if May departs this close to Brexit negotiations, but her Party does owe its Scottish surge in support to its leader in Scotland, Ruth Davidson.
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Kemedian
post 9th Jun 2017, 10:48am
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QUOTE (John Swinney, MSP)
As the first minister has said in the early hours of this morning, we will take time and care to reflect on the outcome of this result, but we have to acknowledge that the question of a second independence referendum was a significant motivator of votes against the SNP in this election and we have to be attentive to that point.

We're in the early moments of the aftermath of this election, we've got a lot to digest, a lot to think about.

The SNP has emerged as the leading party in Scottish politics once again at Westminster. It's a significant feat for us to have achieved for the second election in succession, but there are clearly issues we have to address as a consequence.

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JAGZ1876
post 9th Jun 2017, 11:23am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Jun 2017, 09:53am) *
May doesn't want Indyref2, hence many voters have returned to the Tories from the SNP



I doubt if many (if any) voters have went from SNP to the Tories, most will have gone to Labour due to Corbyn, though the irony is the Labour MP's they voted for will be sharpening their knives to stab Corbyn in the back.

Never mind, the three British Nationalist parties based their entire campaigns on one issue, "No to Indyref2" and the were soundly defeated.

The voters of Scotland have spoken. yes.gif
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