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> Council To Save Buchanan Galleries Plan, City to bail out flagging expansion proposal
post 24th Jan 2010, 04:13am
Post #16

City Key Holder
Posts: 735
Joined: 14th Jan 2006
From: glasgow
Member No.: 2,833
So let's see if I've got this right. In the middle of a recession, with unemployment climbing, our council throws 80 million of our money at a huge shopping centre? Let's not forget that there has been a recent raft of school closures, tensions between the council and its workforce over all manner of alterations to terms and conditions of employment, cuts in funding for the arts including museum/library provision and threats to withdraw funding from the Citizens Theatre as well as a lack of affordable social housing provision and a lack of amenities for the young.
Surely some of the above are more important than the frippery of a shopping centre?
I bet The St. Enoch Centre people who have not long completed their refurbishment will be fuming at this. Unless of course, it's the same people who are involved.
Let's not forget the inconvenience this will cause to us ordinary folk who have to use public transport or who have to drive to work through this part of town. If you think Bath Street is bottlenecked with traffic now, just wait until this building work starts.
One other thing, what happens to all of those family businesses in say, Argyle Street? They will, no doubt, go to the wall as so many others have done over the past couple of years.
Isn't this proposal going to dilute Glasgow, it's people and its environs rather than re-invigorate them?
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post 24th Jan 2010, 05:55am
Post #17

Mega City Key Holder
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Joined: 17th Jan 2004
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I needed a pair of shoes today urgently and went into the city centre............maybe I was looking in the wrong places but I could not find a decent shoe shop in either The Buchanan Galleries or St Enochs...spent hours in town.Sauchiehall St is really just a joke area now and the number of empty shops astounded me.I don't know what the answer was a cold damp day in town and I was fed up trudging around the town.....eventually bought a pair in Schuh on Argyle Street.Not a happy morning but at least the staff in Schuh were brilliant.....still no sure about the shoes though wink.gif Buchanan st is still tops but I did not have 90 to spend on the only shoes I really liked.Glasgow needs to sort its priorities...cos in future I will shop in Edinburgh.
Am on a rant about Glasgow this week.......fell on the pavement in the west end a couple a weeks broken bones but a badly bruised A***lol: snow vanishes and they grit the pavements.....why,when the snow is gone! and another rant....been out of Scotland twice this year already to Europe available flights from Glasgow ..had to use Edinburgh both great hassle for me because my folks are like a hop away from Edinburgh Airport but I should be able to go from Glasgow...ok rant over ...haha am sounding like Victor Meldrew...I doooo not believe this.Get your act together Glasgow...Edinburgh is getting so far ahead of you that its not funny....the new tram system will bring the capital in line with European cities and Glasgow does nothing.

Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e
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post 24th Jan 2010, 01:26pm
Post #18

Mega City Key Holder
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From: German/French/Swiss border town on the River Rhein
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Have to agree Ross, based of course only on the short time I was in Glasgow and Edinburgh during my birthday trip last summer. Glasgow just didn't seem to have that vibrant sensation that Edinburgh oozed around it's centre. OK. I know it's a tale of two cities but as visitors it was so obvious.
I remember in my youth coming from out of town into Brigton X and feeling it starts here
Hardly felt that at all in the city last year, although I was glad to be able to walk from the south side back into the centre and feel I was home again.

"Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.”
― Joseph Heller, God Knows
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post 24th Jan 2010, 03:38pm
Post #19

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Joined: 21st Oct 2005
From: belfast city
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This is one for Glaswegians living at home. would be rather presumptuous of an expat like me to have a yes or no vote. Having said that, I do go home as often as I can and my usual base is the Millennium Hotel. Buchanan bus station is very handy and I make good use of it.
A roof over the bus station to facilitate a carpark is by all accounts a brilliant idea for a couple of reasons. Usually carparks that rise, (multistorey) are well secured, albeit expensive to use.
Add to that the reason why it's being done, i.e. to double the shopping capacity of The Buchanan galleries.
Also, the fact that it's been achieved without taking up any more land is also a bonus.

As I said, it's one for the people at home. They are the ones who will have to endure around two years of considerable inconvenience and, as far as that goes, I'm not so sure the benefits override the drawbacks.

speed bonny boat
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Patter Merchant
post 24th Jan 2010, 04:44pm
Post #20

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Joined: 19th Jan 2009
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Having some experience of how Tax Increment Finance (TIF) funding works in theory, I thought I would do a bit of research into this proposal. What I have found is that the central premise upon which the council thinks it will pay back the debt is completely flawed, because there will be NO future net gains to repay the debt.

Basically, the council intends to go to the bank and say 'Lend us some money and we will use the money to generate NEW income for the city and -- from that new income -- we will pay back the money to the bank, plus interest'. BUT, in this situation, there will be no NEW income, because the council will NOT create any new opportunities for municipal wealth generation in the city. Instead, due to the already huge over-provision of shopping units throughout the city centre, the council is only going to facilitate the movement of shops from Sauchiehall Street into the Buchanan Galleries.

Marks and Spencers is already on record as saying that it will move from Sauchiehall Street to the Buchanan Galleries upon completion of the extension. Therefore the city will LOSE the business rates M&S paid while outside the BG, and once inside the BG the city will not receive the rates, as they will go to paying off the debt.

So, in reality, Glasgow (and the Scotland) will lose out on much-needed funds, as the (future) money will be siphoned away from real business infrastructure development to pay for a vanity commercial venture which the council will have zero ownership or control of.

But it gets worse.... as Sauchiehall Street will enter a period of even more rapid decline after M&S moves out, along with the remaining stores, and business rate income will sink even further. And that isn't even considering the two-year closure of the bus station which will drive yet more businesses out of the north of the city centre.

Maybe when Glasgow City Council is indulging in "cutting-edge" thinking, it should actually get some people on board who can think strategically, rather than becoming obsessed with a fundmentally flawed venture that is well-past its sell-by date.
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post 24th Jan 2010, 09:49pm
Post #21

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Joined: 25th Feb 2009
Member No.: 6,587
A minor point perhaps, but they'll need to ensure proper ventilation for all those buses which sit running for ages.. At least just now they're venting into the sky, with a roof everyone will need a facemask!

In general this sounds like a very poor idea, but then the council are good at things like that. Just look at the mess they made of George Square - 'dear green place' indeed..
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j.irvine bell
post 25th Jan 2010, 10:58pm
Post #22

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From: Springboig, Glasgow
Member No.: 7,615
What can anyone expect from George Square's spendthifts. They have got away with wasting our money for years - witness their pathetic abuse of THEIR front garden! Some of the cooncil think their like Gordie's lot baling out the banks but they are just little people hellbent on being liked by everybody and as always happens pleasing none, except off course they who don't have to dip into their own pockets to finance a purely commercial venture! If it was not so serious it would be an especially poor joke. sad.gif rolleyes.gif
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post 7th Feb 2010, 12:47pm
Post #23

Lord Provost
Posts: 314
Joined: 29th Jul 2003
From: Whiteinch
Member No.: 128
I see another problem here. Apart from the Bus Station closing for 2 years (Where will the alternative Bus Station be for those 2 years, and when have you ever seen the council manage to finnish a building on time?) what about the exhaust fumes from all those busses being under a building? Seems like massive health and Safety problem.
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post 26th Mar 2010, 04:01pm
Post #24

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Joined: 20th Oct 2008
Member No.: 6,150
Like Fronswa I would like to see some links & further information. Buchanan Galleries is one of Britain's most succesful & shouldn't need a hand out. Is the money because they have asked for it or because the Council are already involved (possibly owning the ground) & would rather stay involved? Is the bus station to be closed or will it remain as the ground floor of a car park. My guess is that the Council are trying to stay involved & that it would all work much better & cheaper if they would just sell the developers the site & keep out of the way.
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post 27th Mar 2010, 09:46am
Post #25

Lord Provost
Posts: 314
Joined: 29th Jul 2003
From: Whiteinch
Member No.: 128
QUOTE (boots @ 24th Jan 2010, 01:16am) *
The BBC news item indicates that the citizens of Glasgow approve of these plans and I can't help but wonder who conducted the survey but then neither can I understand how council could approve these plans as they stand. Surely there needs to be further thought given to the closing of the bus depot for two years. What, if any, provision been made for the bus companies and their passengers during that time? Were the affected people among those included in the survey? Right now I think Glasgow has an excellent bus depot and the shopping centre is very attractive, unfortunately shopping centres keep people indoors, and the streets surrounding them tend to become wastelands. Right now Buchanan Street is holding its own but the once proud and beautiful Sauchiehall Street appears to be dying. What is going to happen when there's twice the indoor shopping space?

Just who did the BBC ask about this? Not me I didn't hear anythiong about this Fiasco till this thread started up.
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