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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow News Blog _ Should Begging Be Made Illegal?

Posted by: GG 21st Jan 2014, 09:45pm

Anyone shopping in Glasgow city centre over the last month may have witnessed an increase in the number of beggars soliciting money from passers-by walking along the city's pedestrianised thoroughfares. The situation has been aggravated by a new type of beggar who has introduced new high-profile begging techniques.

One of the most controversial of the new cadging techniques is the advent of 'barefoot begging', where a shoe-less – and often apparently distressed – beggar takes up a prominent position in a city centre street. Barefoot begging has been described as a "scam" by Chief Inspector Alan Porte, the police officer in charge of Glasgow's city centre policing.



Despite the controversy around the new begging techniques, the the city's police and community support officers remain unable to stop the contentious practice because, unlike in England, passive street begging is not illegal on Scottish streets. In response to the lack of effective police powers over street begging in Scotland, Tory MSP Bill Aitken has urged Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill to bring in legislation to "get a grip" of what he says is a growing in Glasgow. However, Mr MacAskill has responded by saying that the Scottish Government would continue to pursue a policy of "multi-agency engagement" rather than "criminalising individuals with complex social needs".


Stuart Patrick, chief executive of Glasgow Chamber of Commerce said:
QUOTE
"We welcome any proposals which recognise begging as a persistent problem within the city. It is a continuing nuisance and undermines confidence in the attractiveness of the city centre especially.

Whilst of course the root causes behind the issue need to be tackled, we support activities which seek to reduce the incidence of begging. Many businesses have expressed strong opinions at the damage it can do to trade with members of the public irritated and occasionally intimidated by beggars repeatedly asking them for money.

We have also been made aware of evidence which confirms the existence of ‘organised begging’ carried out by criminals for profit. This is entirely unacceptable and should be a major priority for any proposed legislation.

Overall, we need to continue the focus on ensuring the city centre is a welcoming destination which attracts people from all over the world."

Grant Campbell, the chief executive of the charity Glasgow City Mission, said councils should be looking at measures to reduce poverty if they wanted to reduce the number of street beggars. He added that "a ban on begging would do little to address the reasons people are begging in the first place – no one eagerly chooses to become a beggar".

GG.

Posted by: GEORGE MCGEACHIE 21st Jan 2014, 10:42pm

QUOTE
"Overall, we need to continue the focus on ensuring the city centre is a welcoming destination which attracts people from all over the world."

Begging should be made illegal throughout Scotland.

GMCGEACHIE.

Posted by: mlconnelly 21st Jan 2014, 10:45pm

A few years ago my cousin saw a guy begging on Sauchiehall St. Feeling sorry for him, she when to MacDonalds and bought him a meal which he thank her for. Still not happy, she went into Watt Brothers and bought him a fleece. When she went back to find him, she found him in the lane at Watt Bros. changing into his designer jacket and trainers. Needless to say she read him the riot act. I couldn't believe how gullible she'd been. Mary wacko.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: margie 21st Jan 2014, 10:58pm

Mlconnelly, My daughter did the same. Went into a store in Sauchiehall St purchased a jacket and gave it to a poor looking soul who was wearing a short sleeved tee shirt in the bitter cold. Needless to say next day there he was back on the street begging with no sign of the jacket. Who's kidding who?

Posted by: mlconnelly 21st Jan 2014, 11:05pm

I'd bet it was the same guy, Margie. laugh.gif Mary

Posted by: mlconnelly 21st Jan 2014, 11:10pm

The guy she tried to help was as Glaswegian as I am. I'm all for criminalising begging, regardless of nationality. Mary

Posted by: big les glasgow 21st Jan 2014, 11:13pm

Another thing that should be banned is selling "The BIG ISSUE" outside supermarkets in Clydebank we have a Romanian woman and her son doing Lidl's and Aldi's every week and IMMEDIATELY NEXT TO THE TROLLEYS, both well dressed and a car probably parked nearby.It is most annoying them looking for your pound from your trolley lets give ourselfs space let them sell by all means but not with in 25 metres of a store door, there preying on the OAP's and I find it to be honest A BLOODY PAIN IN THE ASS!!!

PS. ITS THE SAME IS SPAIN BUT LOCALLY THERE BEGGING HAS NOW BEEN STOPPED.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 21st Jan 2014, 11:15pm

What folks don't seem to realise is that street begging is an organised Business with the bosses creaming off a lucrative living. I have seen; in far eastern lands, mothers with crippled children begging and was saddened to learn that the childrens deformaties; twisted feet or legs, were induced by their own mothers.
Whether we'll eventually see that in GB or not at some time to come remains to be seen.
The end result for me was that I stopped carrying lots of loose Change for beggars when I came into town.
Here where I live the favoured spots are outside of the Banks or supermarkets like Lydl or Aldi.
Another scam is when you roll into the Aldi carpark and a woman waves you and Points out a free slot to you. When you get out the car she Hands you a note in German and French language explaining that her husband is too ill to work and she has 4 Young children to feed.
These scams are Europe wide now.

Posted by: DavidT 21st Jan 2014, 11:42pm

I feel for any person who has nothing. It's a shame that scammers take advantage of of this side of human nature. It does not alter the fact that some people have nothing. Jail the scammers not the destitute.

Posted by: Yogihughes 22nd Jan 2014, 12:10am

There is no reason for ANYONE to be "begging " on the streets of any city in the UK. The UK has one of the best welfare states anywhere in the world and the money AND support provided is enough for people to live without begging.
I know the incoming "flak" will be from those who say " there but for the grace of god" and all that but that is nonsense!
I took steps to ensure that I would NOT require any welfare handouts other than those that I had already paid into, eg. State pension.
I still pay tax on my annual income although retired and rely on no-one but myself and wife to manage our affairs.

Posted by: tarheels 22nd Jan 2014, 12:10am

people beg because there hungry or need a few dollars out of the cold , i am 76 years young, when i was a lad i was down an out an had to beg , then i went into the military an earned my engineers degree from 1954 thru 1962 , well not all that long , but 4 years it took me , you don't have to be-leave all beggars , some just do not have a choice , i have worked for the defense office at a military base , DOD for 20 years , an other fine jobs , i am proud of what i have accomplished, Clarence,. tarheels, Rielly !! thumbup.gif

Posted by: garthmacgirr 22nd Jan 2014, 01:15am

I live in Toronto, Canada. While we do have a few "street people" who wander around and sometimes sleep on the street (even in winter), their begging is very subtle. If they do anything, it is to hold out a hand or a cup but rarely to say anything.

It is widely believed that most of these people have mental problems. Accordingly, they are often shown sympathy in tangible form (money, clothes, blankets, etc.).

Most people would like to see the beggars off the streets but the beggars refuse food and shelter when offered. You get the impression that the beggars want to be on the streets.

Posted by: angel 22nd Jan 2014, 01:17am

The province of Ontario introduced its Safe Streets Act in 1999 to restrict specific kinds of begging, particularly certain narrowly-defined cases of "aggressive" or abusive begging.[9] In 2001 this law survived a court challenge under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.[10] The law was further upheld by the Court of Appeal for Ontario in January 2007.[11]

One response to the anti-panhandling laws which were passed was the creation of the Ottawa Panhandlers Union which fights for the political rights of panhandlers. The union is a shop of the Industrial Workers of the World.

Not sure if this applies to Scotland ..

United Kingdom ..... Begging is illegal under the Vagrancy Act of 1824. However it does not carry a jail sentence and is not well enforced in many cities,[15] although since the Act applies in all public places it is enforced more frequently on public transport.

Seen in Toronto ...... A man begging on the street , and on his card It says , " I need money for more weed " and his tray was pretty full with cash .. laugh.gif

Posted by: UPYKLT 22nd Jan 2014, 01:45am

The first thing that comes to my mind, is what about the people who really need help? But then it occurs to me, that Britain, has one of the most generous welfare/social systems in the world. It seems to me that nobody, but nobody in the UK needs go without help. Unless I'm missing something, begging in the UK is a scam.

Posted by: *Billy* 22nd Jan 2014, 01:54am

QUOTE (garthmacgirr @ 22nd Jan 2014, 01:32am) *
I live in Toronto, Canada. While we do have a few "street people" who wander around and sometimes sleep on the street (even in winter), their begging is very subtle. If they do anything, it is to hold out a hand or a cup but rarely to say anything.

It is widely believed that most of these people have mental problems. Accordingly, they are often shown sympathy in tangible form (money, clothes, blankets, etc.).

Most people would like to see the beggars off the streets but the beggars refuse food and shelter when offered. You get the impression that the beggars want to be on the streets.

I was house sitting in Sannich for a while and was amazed to see the amount off begging in the streets. This I was told was due to the fact that Victoria was the warmest city in Canada and most were itinerant beggars from other parts of Canada. I was also saddened to see the amount of "First Nation" beggars. I was also annoyed to note that a majority of beggars, far from being mentally challenged, were far fitter and much more robust than myself.

In Australia though begging does exist but not to a grand scale. There is also no need to beg in the streets. When it was allowed by a politically correct state government in Melbourne we had begging with menace. As in Scotland there are state and federal welfare conditions. In London at the turn of the century there were orginized beggar gangs recouping massive amounts of money to enable them middle class living. This would appear to be on the way to becoming the situation in Scotland. The Glasgow council would no doubt to be seen to be "bleeding hearted socialists" and retaining the status quo. Dont let them.

Posted by: Guvin Jimm 22nd Jan 2014, 02:02am

QUOTE (DavidT @ 21st Jan 2014, 11:59pm) *
I feel for any person who has nothing. It's a shame that scammers take advantage of of this side of human nature. It does not alter the fact that some people have nothing. Jail the scammers not the destitute.

The destitute can turn to the churches, welfare agencies and others ready to "save" people from the streets. This is not a country like many others that see destitution as a common factor in their version civilization. The scammers are what they are; criminals who should be treated as such.
Ban begging now before it becomes institutionalzed as part of the economy. The only beggars I remember in Govan were men who had their legs blown off in foreign wars. And even at that they would play the harmonica or do chalk drawings on the pavement to retain a semblance of pride.

Posted by: jcjamieson 22nd Jan 2014, 02:57am

Let's face facts. The whole of Britain has became a dumping ground for bums, terrorists and all the dross that the so called government has landed us with.
The longer we put up with it the worse it will get.
These people do not give a toss for us or our way of life or the standards we USED to live up to.
If we complain we are racist and when we don't they slowly, but surely, take over bit by bit.
At first I felt sorry for them but found out,like many others, I was being conned.
The city center looks like a third world country some days with beggars on most corners.
The tourist buses at George Square are a favorite place for these people.
God knows what our visitors think of the place !

Posted by: ARu-999 22nd Jan 2014, 03:06am

I think I am with the majority of people here in feeling that it should be illegal, I have witnessed a few of these 'poor souls' in Glasgow centre on their mobile phones.
My thinking is that if you can afford a phone, you can afford a pair of shoes.

I now never give money to beggars, and my opinion has changed over the years on the validity of the boy or girl down on their luck, to the feeling that it is more of an organised scam.

I feel it is a pathetic situation that we have allowed beggars from overseas to come here, we have as a country enough beggars / spongers, we really cannot absorb any more.

Posted by: Ossie 22nd Jan 2014, 03:14am

QUOTE (DavidT @ 21st Jan 2014, 11:59pm) *
I feel for any person who has nothing. It's a shame that scammers take advantage of of this side of human nature. It does not alter the fact that some people have nothing. Jail the scammers not the destitute.

My feelings exactly . Must be a Govan thing !

Ossie.

Posted by: Old Sailor 22nd Jan 2014, 03:22am

Begging is the product of a disrupted society so before "punishing" beggars we should "punish" the society which engenders begging. To quote Anatole France, "The rich ad the poor alike should be free to beg in the streets and sleep under bridges". I live in West Vancouver, an affluent area, where begging is virtually unseen, however across the bridge in the City of Vancouver a nimber of homeless persons share the streets.

Posted by: Freda 22nd Jan 2014, 03:26am

Todays begging should be illegal, it is a scam. I live in San Jose, California and people stand at the shopping centers, entrances to the freeways and anywhere else a group of people would assemble, whether it be in cars or on foot. There are many agencies that are equipped to assist those who a less fortunate than you and I and for those of us who want to help, make a donation to the Agency. I have offered to buy food but they refuse because of one thing of another, not all can be allergic, they don't want food, they want money so that they can select what they buy.

Posted by: gordonmarr 22nd Jan 2014, 04:48am

I am subjected to aggressive begging by Roma people on a regular basis but when I complained to the police they accused me of being racist, so much for the protection of the law.

Posted by: ARu-999 22nd Jan 2014, 05:27am

Gordon,

If your policeman thinks being hacked off at the beggars you describe is being racist, then I would estimate 99% of the population are racist.

ARU

Posted by: Dave Grieve 22nd Jan 2014, 05:39am

My son in-law has a 100 percent cure for begging, whenever he is stopped by a beggar he tells them to "wait right there I will be back in five minutes I have a job for you" works like a charm they are never there when he returns laugh.gif

Posted by: gardenqueen 22nd Jan 2014, 07:26am

Apart from the occasional Big Issue seller, we don't really have many people begging here, in this part of Hertfordshire. I don't really consider Big Issue selling to be begging, not it its original way anyway. Things do seem to have changed but who am I to judge? I don't know what the criteria is to get hold of them.

In London, of course, they are everywhere and Londoners just tend to ignore them. It is the tourists who seem to give to them.

I have been known to give but usually to Big Issue sellers although I recognise that some may not be as needy as they seem. Obviously there are lots of tales of posh cars parked round the corner but I am not too sure about the truth in that.

When in Glasgow recently, early one Sunday morning we were walking down Buchanan St on our way to have breakfast at Cafe Gandolfi and there was a young man selling the Big Issue. He was being "got at" by a group of youths who appeared drunk to me. They moved on when they saw us. A lovely young girl went over and gave him a fiver as we also did. I asked him about the youths (who were not Glaswegian) and he said that he gets a lot of that but just ignores them as it will get him into bother. The lad had what I would describe as moderate learning difficulties and I thought it was enterprising of him to be out there so early on a Sunday morning. I don't always give to Big Issue sellers, I am quite selective but like to think I am a good judge of character.

As long as the beggers don't harass me, I ignore them. Last time I was in Rome, they were much more worrying and (I think) a lot more cunning.


Posted by: Ancara 22nd Jan 2014, 07:46am

I don't give money to beggars with cups held out in their hands I have in the past bought gloves for beggars but no more after the comments I have read here. I do sometimes give money to people who are busking as at least they are trying to entertain but mostly nowadays I give to the Salvation Army as they are the people who mostly look after street people and god bless every on of them as they are out in all weathers truly helping the unfortunate. Ann

Posted by: Jupiter 22nd Jan 2014, 08:01am

My words to describe them? Skanky Chancers who sit there putting on the poor mouth in the hope that gullibles give them money for nothing. And that is the big issue,MONEY FOR NOTHING.
Tug at the heart strings of the many who feel guilt at the sight of a barefoot person.
If there were acting awards for beggars Im sure many of Glasgows finest would be up for The Beggars Oscar.
They say its illegal and I know it is but I recall a time when no self respecting beat patrol officer would suffer these chancers on his beat.He would resort to the old Glasgow Ways and Means Act.
"Your no begging here son! Know what I mean?/ now on your way"
If the chancer failed to desist and be on his way a Breach of the Peace would ensue.Clearly the police are now so PC that the old act has been repealed.

Posted by: Dylan 22nd Jan 2014, 08:24am

Begging in Scotland is not illegal.

We have no Vagrancy Act.

Posted by: George Brown 22nd Jan 2014, 09:06am

At the risk of ''sweeping a short fall of care in our in society under the carpet'' it should be made illegal. But then again by observation of the individuals and music some opt to play and in some cases try to play they are not of this country, and whether by accident or design they chose to come here
I would also like to see in general all begging stopped , by this I refer to many that I would be of professional ability who impose over amplified raucous woodwinds audible from streets away virtually seven days a week, I for one do not like this sort of music or its imposition on me, I stopped visiting the city centre just for this reason but now I find that the group have fragmented and are now playing in various locations that I tend to visit

Posted by: Karidian 22nd Jan 2014, 09:18am

I think a lot of folk here are unaware of how little support there is for the homeless in the short term. A friend of ours ended up homeless last year after a disagreement with his wife. He was flung out with no money, no bank cards and just the clothes he was wearing which were totally unsuitable even for light rain. There are homeless shelters available in Glasgow but they have limited capacity and come on a first come first served basis. He struggled just to get by in those two weeks while trying to get into the benefits system. Luckily he reconciled with his wife and even more luckily his job was still available when he got back although he did have to accept a final warning.
That said i would be firmly behind any effort to send foreign beggars back to whatever country they originated from. Let them beg there. My wife and mother in law have spoken to Scottish big issue sellers and they have been told that a lot of Scottish vendors are being forced off their patches by foreign gangs who use the big issue as a money making scam. As such i would never buy one from a foreigner.
So, there are two sided to the story. Yes there are a lot of scammers there but there are also those who are genuinely needy. Can you tell the difference Just by looking at them? I had no idea what a poor state of affairs existed for the homeless in this modern Britain with its benefits system until i had to confront it while trying to find and help my pal. I just hadnt thought about it and assumed all those on the streets were alkies or junkies or some such.
Making begging illegal may get them off the streets but wont help those that need it.

Posted by: ARu-999 22nd Jan 2014, 09:42am

Yes the 'music' dimension!!

There is a Roma (I'm guessing she is, I don't know for sure that she is) woman who hammers away on a guitar on Rosemount in Aberdeen most days, simply awful noise. I asked the adjacent shopkeeper (a Curry's electrical shop) if they didn't find the noise a bit tiresome. Seems they had asked repeatedly for the woman to be moved on, but nothing was done as the authorities did not want to appear to be vindictive or non PC.

If this attitude does not change, it will I feel get worse in years to come, so I think there should be an action on the government to curtail these activities.

Introduce ID cards for everyone, and if you are a foreign vagrant you are escorted to the border. Why?, we cant afford them

Immigration from other parts of Europe is to be welcomed if the immigrants come and work and pay tax, if you are here to be a vagrant you should not be made welcome, we have enough indigenous vagrants to support, we shouldn't be supporting anyone else's underclass.

On a lighter note (pun), there was a bus parked outside the Buchanan St shopping mall during the days leading up to Xmas playing the most appalling Cliff Richard dirge, I think it was a Catholic hospice??, that noise was equally as bad as the Roma woman with the guitar!

Posted by: amclpreston 22nd Jan 2014, 09:51am

If someone begs in bare feet on a freezing cold day, then rather them than me.

I do give to people who beg.

Not every time.

And do you know, I generally feel quite good about it.

I don't take my attitudes from this or that businessman who doesn't want some scruffy person sullying his lovely doorstep. Nor from some Tory MP.


Posted by: *droschke7* 22nd Jan 2014, 10:50am

QUOTE (Yogihughes @ 22nd Jan 2014, 12:27am) *
There is no reason for ANYONE to be "begging " on the streets of any city in the UK. The UK has one of the best welfare states anywhere in the world and the money AND support provided is enough for people to live without begging.
I know the incoming "flak" will be from those who say " there but for the grace of god" and all that but that is nonsense!
I took steps to ensure that I would NOT require any welfare handouts other than those that I had already paid into, eg. State pension.
I still pay tax on my annual income although retired and rely on no-one but myself and wife to manage our affairs.

All due respect but you obviously haven't seen some of the latest news from Ian Duncan Smith, he wants to send terminally ill people on "work experience" or he will stop their benefits, we may soon be seeing them on the streets as well, so the "Welfare System" so here in the UK isn't as good as it used to be or as people believe it to be. That being said begging in the streets should be banned especially those that follow you down the street asking for change. I once saw a bloke outside Greggs in Partick, holding a sign saying "Haven't eaten in 4 days" as I was going into Greggs for a Chicken and Mushroom slice I thought I'd get 2 and give the guy one of them. Luckily they were doing 2 for the price of 1, I took 1 out of the bag and handed the bag, with the other chicken and mushroom slice, to the beggar and walked away. The next thing I know I got hit on the back of the head by the chicken and mushroom slice and heard the beggar cursing at me, as I'm disabled there wasn't much I could do about it, but since then I have ignored all beggars and big issue sellers.

Posted by: Guest 22nd Jan 2014, 11:07am

I'm a bit disappointed to read some of the less charitable opinions expressed by some posters in this topic. To my mind, all of the beggars that I encounter (on a daily basis) fall into 1 of 3 categories, and my thoughts on each are quite different.

1. Obviously immigrant origin, usually regular as clockwork, and have no place begging on the streets of Glasgow. Whether they are attached to organised "gangs" I have no idea, but there will have been at least a minimum of Social Work input in order to house them etc., and to provide a channel for them to express their needs and rights. To be begging on a daily basis is just ripping the pish. angry.gif

2. Non-immigrant regulars, who don't appear to be distressed, other than the fact that they'd like a hand out from anybody who is intimidated or stupid enough to put their hand in their pocket. Chancers and wasters angry.gif

3. Anybody who appears to be genuinely distressed, whether immigrant or not, who look as if they really have no other choice (at that point) than to be hoping for spare change from people who wouldn't miss it in a month of Sundays. I have no issues with this "category" of people. And let's remember, they are people, however low they appear to have sunk, not necessarily through their own actions. I would include Big Issue sellers and buskers in this category, as they are at least trying to do something to help themselves, rather than just sticking a hand out and asking strangers for money.

The government led media in this country would like all unemployed and disabled people lumped under the one heading of scroungers, which makes their benefits easier to attack. Don't be fooled, there are a lot of people now suffering genuine hardship because the fat cats screwed up and ordinary tax payers had to bail them out.

All I'm saying is try to look at the whole subject, and not just whether begging should be legal or illegal - it's just not that simple.

Posted by: peterdroper 22nd Jan 2014, 11:16am

This is something I do feel strongly about. I believe we should help those who cannot help themselves but do nothing for those who will not help themselves, the problem is differentiating between those individuals. For anyone who is truly homeless or hungry there is a welfare system and safety nets in place. Of course there will always be those who fall through the cracks of these systems (mental health, alcoholism, drug addiction etc) but we have to attack this by working with, supporting and improving the agencies and charities that try to manage poverty. If we continue to give money to beggars, then we are sending a message that it is acceptable to sit barefoot in the street and expect strangers to pass their wages and benefits over to you.

Do not give to beggars. If you are tempted then put some money in a charity box instead. Even better, set up a standing order to Shelter, Crisis or the Salvation Army who are better placed to ensure that your contribution makes a difference.

Posted by: mustard 22nd Jan 2014, 11:36am

Personally I find beggards in any City pretty intimidating. I was in New York when they banned (pan handling) and I for one was glad. You would come out of a bank and they would (courteously) hold open the door and most people would then tip them. I never I could not get past them quick enough smile.gif - Sam

Posted by: Doug1 22nd Jan 2014, 12:17pm

Aggressive, annoying, pestering or gangs of beggars should be knocked on the head but as for the odd character with his cloth cap I'm not so bothered about!

Posted by: Scotsman 22nd Jan 2014, 03:06pm

There have been a few stories about this in the Evening Times over the last few weeks and I was thinking it was to do with the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games because no doubt the cooncil is going to want to get rid of the beggars in time for that.... did they not do something like that in the last games in India when they rounded up the street beggars and put them in jail during the games?? Delhi I think it was.

Posted by: Heather 22nd Jan 2014, 05:01pm

I used to give to those begging in the street, but now I rarely do except for the Nun who usually stands near M&S or Debenhams with a tin to drop the money in and I always get a smile and a thank you.

I stopped buying the Big Issue as it usually Immigrants who sell it now, plus it has become a load of rubbish.

Posted by: Jimmuck 22nd Jan 2014, 07:18pm

Having been a 'beggar' on the streets of Toronto, back in the late '70's, I have compassion for some and none for others. The pissed up drunk gets nothing, unless he's a better fighter than me and the ones who 'do that little extra? are rewarded for their ingenuity!
When I was down on Skid Row in T.O. I would buy a bag of 'Coloured Combs' from "Honest Ed's" and when I saw a young 'lovey couple' coming towards me? I'd select a comb as near to the colour of her coat as possible and 'give it to his lovely sweetheart' I was usually rewarded with a Dollar, on the girls bidding.
I also sang in the doorways of Burger King/The Book Store at Yonge and Dundas where I earned a few bucks for singing "Me and Bobby McGee" 8-9 times over .. I'd make enough for a packet of Rothman's a Hamburger and Fries and HOT Coffee.
So, "There But For The Grace of God" can apply closer than you might think.
I celebrated my 34th year of continious sobriety last August 22nd. and expect to reach 35 this August "One Day at a Time"

Donna and I went on a trip to Halifax, Nova Scotia, last week (we moved to her home province in November last year) and while walking down Spring Garden Rd? I met a young fella about 23-25 with a cardboard sign on his chest which said "HUGS are FREE!" well, imagine Donna's face when I grabbed that youing fella and gave him a BIG Hug (along with a $5.00 bill) and further down, outside Tim Horton's, a rip roaring drunk, waving a stale Glazed Donut, telling the world he was 'hungry' not starving ... so! I took him into Timmy's and bought him a roast beef sandwich, along with my own cheese. He ate it with gratitude, commented on Donna's 'beauty' and went on his merry way ... so, my fellow Glaswegians, use your discretion and you might just make a difference and 'my gestures' did more for MY SOBRIETY than they did for those two 'fallen brothers' just as it was for my fellow poster, amclpreston

Posted by: john donaldson 22nd Jan 2014, 07:25pm

I live in Toronto Canada there are many people begging on the streets here, this is because of the unemployment situation and the lack of decent welfare rates why would we make this a criminal act when it is the authorities who have caused the problem.

Posted by: Jimmuck 22nd Jan 2014, 08:18pm

I noticed someone mentiones "The Big Issue" sellors?? well, I have a story to share with you all and if it doesn't tug at your heart strings, "Yurr noa fae Glesga' for we never looked doon oor noses at emday in Springburn!

"Stuart" the "Big Issue" sellor ....

I saw him nearly every week
He had no claim to fame
I spoke with him and I laughed with him
But I never knew his name

He thanked me for the pound I gave
For I always gave the same
And I said you're very welcome son
For I didn't know his name

He shared with me his housing plights
And I thought it was a shame
And he said how bad he felt sometimes
Though he told me not his name

His legs were bad for many weeks
He hobbled and was lame
And he had to sit for it hurt to stand
This young man with no name

At Christmas time he wore a hat
Likr Santa when he came
And I wondered if he would come to him
The guy without a name

And I never heard him curse or swear
His words were always tame
I respected him; he respected me
So did I really need his name?

He was part of life, and now he's dead
And I know I'm not to blame
But I kinda wish when I had the chance
That I'd asked that boy his name

But there's one who sits in the Holy place
The eternal Holy flame
And he's greeted him and he's welcomed him
And it matters not his name

For the Bible says at the foot of Christ
Is the victory we can claim
And the first and last, and the last and first
Shall be called by a NEW name

When I see him next, in that lovely place
And that surely is my aim
Then I''ll say; hey lad, remember me?
And at last I'll know his name

Posted by: wombat 22nd Jan 2014, 08:50pm

QUOTE (Jimmuck @ 22nd Jan 2014, 07:35pm) *
Having been a 'beggar' on the streets of Toronto, back in the late '70's, I have compassion for some and none for others.
I also sang in the doorways of Burger King/The Book Store at Yonge and Dundas where I earned a few bucks for singing "Me and Bobby McGee" 8-9 times over ..

laugh.gif jimmuck laugh.gif

 

Posted by: Jimmuck 22nd Jan 2014, 10:41pm

And your point is??? ya scabby wee vermin ye tongue.gif

Posted by: Mac Yavelli 22nd Jan 2014, 11:52pm

QUOTE (Scotsman @ 22nd Jan 2014, 03:23pm) *
There have been a few stories about this in the Evening Times over the last few weeks and I was thinking it was to do with the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games because no doubt the cooncil is going to want to get rid of the beggars in time for that.... did they not do something like that in the last games in India when they rounded up the street beggars and put them in jail during the games?? Delhi I think it was.

Take the Sydney Olympics; all the nongs and dysfunctionals were offered moves to the costal holiday areas to keep them quiet about P.C. Wrights interference. Some of these once pristine areas became crime and violence ridden, the schools filled with profesional morons and bikies moved en masse in just a few years after. Send the problem away! What about the good people they are foisted on?

Posted by: carmella 23rd Jan 2014, 12:08am

Am I missing something here?

Heather I'm intrigued as to why a Nun would be begging in Glasgow City Centre?

Is she really a Nun, or is she pretending to be one to get the money?

I've never heard of this before or seen it.

Posted by: gardenqueen 23rd Jan 2014, 07:42am

If I remember correctly, when I was in Glasgow in November, there was a nun sitting just inside Dunnes store in Sauchihall Street. She was collecting for something, possibly the hospice. She looked like a genuine nun to me and was very friendly.

No different to the local hospice here in Hertfordshire having a charity shop really. In an ideal world these wonderful places would be get more funding as they do a fantastic job in times of need.

When I was young and living in Glasgow, I would regularly be seen selling flags for the St Vincent de Paul. That couldn't be seen as begging. These days maybe not so many people volunteer to collect donations so the nuns themselves get out there and do it.

Posted by: ashfield 23rd Jan 2014, 09:31am

QUOTE (carmella @ 23rd Jan 2014, 12:25am) *
Am I missing something here?

Heather I'm intrigued as to why a Nun would be begging in Glasgow City Centre?

Is she really a Nun, or is she pretending to be one to get the money?

I've never heard of this before or seen it.

Carmella, there have been Nuns collecting, for their order, outside M&S in Argyll St for as long as I can remember. In fact they would often be collecting along side someone doing the same on behalf of the Salvation Army. Funnily enough, on my last few visits into town (including yesterday) there was nobody there except the big issue seller.

Posted by: Heather 23rd Jan 2014, 10:29am

Carmella, If I remember correctly, the Nun's are from the ' Little Sisters of the Poor'.

Gardenqueen, I also sold flags for the St. Vincent De Paul.
We usually ended up in St. Aloysius Garnethill Hall where they gave the Collectors tea and scones for free.

Posted by: gardenqueen 23rd Jan 2014, 10:46am

That's right, Heather, I remember now. Not the hospice this time.

Posted by: Robert Mullen 23rd Jan 2014, 11:31am

Hi all

Here in Germiston. South Africa we don't have much of a problem with beggars except the occasional few that stand outside supermarkets asking for money for food and and when you offer to buy them food they ask for the money to buy their own food when they actually want the money to buy alcohol. If that happen then I refuse to part with money. The other thing is if you give them once they expect you to give them again and therefor become a pain in the neck.

The big problem we have is people selling every kind of thing at the traffic lights on busy roads which has become a real pain in the neck for motorists.

Posted by: Jupiter 23rd Jan 2014, 11:43am

I read with interest of the nun at M&S.She and others like her are not begging but doing a charitable collection and I surmise any money collected by her would go to good causes.I have absolutely no problem with this admirable activity.
One of the orders(Little Sisters?) has the authority to do these collections at any time as opposed to other charities who require permission/permits when they wish to collect on designated days.

Posted by: dugald 23rd Jan 2014, 12:50pm

Guvin jimm tells us:

"The only beggars I remember in Govan were men who had their legs blown off in foreign wars. And even at that they would play the harmonica or do chalk drawings on the pavement to retain a semblance of pride.
"

The beggars I have seen in Govan were not only the one's to which Guvin jimm refers, but I recall clearly the ones he mentions. I recall in particular one who use to play the "moothie" at the queue on a Saturday night at the Lyseum. Not only was he minus a leg, but he did wear the two General Service gongs from the Great War, and for some reason or other I never questioned his right to wear them. I might mention too, that at this time I knew three men who had lost a limb in the war, maybe this contributes to my never questioning his right to wear the medals. If I had any money I'd put a penny or maybe a half-penny in his hat. I remember he was quite a good singer, and in my way of thinking, he had every right to entertain the Govan folk.

Surely Guvin jimm, you also remember the occasional singer that would come around and sing in the back yard for a penny or two? I recall them too; in fact, I still recall one who was a regular every once in a while, and she'd sing that Aussie song that goes something like, "In an old Australia homstead wi' the rosies round the door....."--- a song i believe, about the Suvla Bay disaster.

Posted by: carmella 23rd Jan 2014, 03:36pm

Ashfield and Heather

Thank you both for explaining it to me. In all these years, I've never seen this. I was putting it in the context of begging, but I think when we talk about begging in Glasgow or any other city in the UK, we and certainly I, am not thinking of people who are collecting for local charities, or the Nuns collecting for their orders - now that it's been pointed out to me, I can certainly understand it, and I would certainly contribute. Like others, I did this when I was a teenager collecting for various things, usually organized by the Church.

The type of begging I think the topic is about are the street beggars who are also most probably, homeless.

I do give to them, although with some hesitance, simply because I tend to look at people sometimes as victims, and there but for the grace of God go I attitude. I had a friend who was the hardest working family man, with six kids, who through no fault of his own, he lost everything, he and his wife had their home re-possessed and they lived in one room of a hotel for 3 years. I felt so sorry for them, they did nothing of their own volition to deserve this.

Some of the people we see on our streets these days, would have had jobs and homes at one time (I'm sure) but perhaps got caught up in drink and drugs to end up where they are - there will equally be others who have not become involved in taking drugs or alcohol, so I simply put a 1 coin in when they collect. I don't give to everyone, just the ones I 'feel' are genuine - but who knows.

Posted by: Rob Schellinger 23rd Jan 2014, 03:58pm

Here in Polk County (central) Florida, there's an ordinance that outlaws solicitation of money, business and jobs in public roadways.

http://tinyurl.com/pu4js3v

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 23rd Jan 2014, 05:08pm

QUOTE (Jimmuck @ 22nd Jan 2014, 11:58pm) *
And your point is??? ya scabby wee vermin ye tongue.gif

laugh.gif Git tore right intae 'im Big Yin. See that Wombat, he's beggin' fur a skelp roon the lugs laugh.gif

Posted by: wombat 23rd Jan 2014, 06:25pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 23rd Jan 2014, 06:25pm) *
Git tore right intae 'im Big Yin. See that Wombat, he's beggin' fur a skelp roon the lugs


tongue.gif i'm outta here,hee hee. laugh.gif


 

Posted by: Blackie- Springburn 23rd Jan 2014, 08:31pm

Not everyone has cash and begging cannot be helped. There is a lot of money in Glasgow and money is made round to go around.

Posted by: jakka13 24th Jan 2014, 03:05am

We had a fairly young man who begged outside my local grocery store .He sat on a sort of home made cart ,seemed a bit simple and could hardly speak .I gave him money on many occasions ,feeling sorry for him.
One day the man who collects the buggies saw me give him money and told me not to give him anymore !! .He said it was a scam and I should wait in my car a little while and watch him .Well a short time later ,up gets the beggar .Picks up his cart puts it behind a mail box and walks into the store .
I got out of the car and followed him in and here he is laughing and joking with the girl on the service desk while he was putting on his Pro-line bet . ohmy.gif
That was the last time I gave to anyone begging outside the stores .I give to the Salvation Army ,I buy Poppies and I give to real causes when they sell their flags etc .

Posted by: boots 24th Jan 2014, 10:02am

I guess I'm somewhat like Carmella in that I generally go by my gut-feeling when deciding whether or not to give to those who simply ask for money and I definitely do not consider buskers or street artists to be begging, in my opinion they are working.
I too remember the back court singers from when I lived in "the holy city" in Clydebank before the
blitz. One young man came every Sunday morning and was very popular, people would make requests and "Danny Boy" would be heard several times before he was out of earshot. Coins wrapped in newspaper would be thrown down to him from kitchen windows and all the adults seemed to feel he would have a good future as a professional singer.














I


Posted by: Guvin Jimm 24th Jan 2014, 11:05am

QUOTE (dugald @ 23rd Jan 2014, 01:07pm) *
Guvin jimm tells us:

"The only beggars I remember in Govan were men who had their legs blown off in foreign wars. And even at that they would play the harmonica or do chalk drawings on the pavement to retain a semblance of pride.
"

The beggars I have seen in Govan were not only the one's to which Guvin jimm refers, but I recall clearly the ones he mentions. I recall in particular one who use to play the "moothie" at the queue on a Saturday night at the Lyseum. Not only was he minus a leg, but he did wear the two General Service gongs from the Great War, and for some reason or other I never questioned his right to wear them. I might mention too, that at this time I knew three men who had lost a limb in the war, maybe this contributes to my never questioning his right to wear the medals. If I had any money I'd put a penny or maybe a half-penny in his hat. I remember he was quite a good singer, and in my way of thinking, he had every right to entertain the Govan folk.

Surely Guvin jimm, you also remember the occasional singer that would come around and sing in the back yard for a penny or two? I recall them too; in fact, I still recall one who was a regular every once in a while, and she'd sing that Aussie song that goes something like, "In an old Australia homstead wi' the rosies round the door....."--- a song i believe, about the Suvla Bay disaster.

I well remember the men who sang around the backs. And the Lyceum buskers. There was one who sat outside St.Anthony on Govan rd. and drew chalk pictures with a religious theme. People were pretty deprived in Govan just after the war and even parting with pennies and ha'pennies was a sacrifice, but Govan people were very aware that if you were seeking money on the street (I wont use the term begging as they tried their best to give something in return), you were really desparate, and generally gave a few coins. When I was an apprentice in Fairfields I worked with a guy who trained as a fighter pilot, but the war ended before he was operational, who was a very good trumpet player and used to go busking out side the cinemas. He made no pretence at being disabled but he dressed in his old work clothes to look the part. There were others like him who were acomplished musicians and did the rounds of cinema Qs. If you do remember you could wait for hours to get into a new Cinemascope movie in the 50s.

Posted by: Guest 24th Jan 2014, 12:28pm

Nobody should need to beg for money.

Posted by: gardenqueen 24th Jan 2014, 01:35pm

QUOTE (Guest @ 24th Jan 2014, 12:45pm) *
Nobody should need to beg for money.

No, nobody should have to beg in an ideal world but, sadly, we don't live in one.

Posted by: rossmckenzie 24th Jan 2014, 05:45pm

A year ago at home in Scotland I would never have condoned begging in the street...am working in Poland just now with a cold factor we could never experience at home....every day I pass old grans out in the street with a cup begging...whatever change I have is given to them....might well be a con I don't know or care....I am nearly weeping with the cold at times but know at the end of my day I go home to to a comfortable flat...with great food and a good life....in Warsaw I food shop at M&S...cheaper than at home so how could I compare my life to people who have either nothing or very little....I can't do that.

Posted by: weebee 24th Jan 2014, 07:49pm

I can only see it getting worse


Posted by: wombat 24th Jan 2014, 08:34pm

thumbup.gif GREED should be made illegal,even a wee scabby vermin like me has shelter ,

a feed, and a drink laugh.gif


 

Posted by: carmella 24th Jan 2014, 09:53pm

Hi Ross - nice to see you posting from a very cold Poland, and you can see first hand what absolute poverty is like, once again you are putting your young wise head on your shoulders, this will be a lesson in life which you will always carry with you.

I liked your observation that you could come back to Scotland to comfort - whereas these people you are seeing, have no chance of that.

Hope you are well.

Posted by: Jimmuck 25th Jan 2014, 11:38am

I jist love the 'There shouldn't be the need for begging on our streets' brigade's comments, BUT THERE IS! this is the contuance of my posts earlier, afore a wee 'dingbat wombat' ate the paper ........

Fiona is/was a memeber on this board too .... and she posted this wee message about a wee fella she knew in Glenrothes, Fife .......

QUOTE
his name was Stuart...... he sold his Issues outside Lydles in glenrothers......... he was found dead last week .... he had tried really hard , on and off , to come off the drink/drugs......... he was on a methodone programme and was detoxing ....... looked well and really clean ........some folk would have called him "Scum" ... "a druggie" ....... he was someone`s son , he had a name ... do you know the name of your Big Issue vendor ???... do you even care ??? ....... Fi .....XXXX

Chinas, sometimes in your life it seems that 'all' is against you and you can't 'win one' try a wee Prayer. GO tae a quiet place an' talk tae whoever ye believe in an' 'turn your troubles over to ???'
We had a 'story' on the Board aboot a wee fella, " Stuart " who selt the "Big Issue" on the streets of Glenrothes, Fife. This young fella wiss only 26, homeless and fightin' a drug habit when he 'lost the big wan' an' froze tae death, alone and forsaken.
Well this big eejit identified wae 'Stuart' a'cause o' ma ain fight wae addictions an' suicidal mentality, tryin' tae freeze tae death on the Lake Erie ice in a futile attempt tae 'end it'!
I'm Still Here an' Clean an Sober, 31 years later. T.B.T.G.
Fiona told us about the wee fella an' how he'd be put tae rest in a coupla days an' being a big saftie, ah thought ah'd get a Scottish Dooman tae release some Wee White Doos in a symbol o' unity.
Ah called a pal, Joe Murphy of Thornton, oot Kirkcaldy way, who writes for the "Racing & Homing Pigeon Magazines" in the U.K. if he knew anybody who could get tae the wee fellas funeral an' dae me this wee favour. Well, it wisnae much time an' although Joe an' me talked a few times oan the phone, ah still wisnae sure if it wiss gonnie happen.
Here's the wee message we got on the day o' wee Stuart's funeral pals an' by God! ma prayers wiss answered an'na Scotsman wizzatt the ither end.

Here's Fiona's wee message fae The Kingdom o' Fife chinas ...........

QUOTE
fionam, Guest

Re: (No Subject)
Message sent on Feb 3, 2009, 11:29am [Reply]
[Delete]
Awwwwwe Jimmuck ... it happened , it really , really did ... a man and woman came just before the Service and asked for someone called Fiona ......... they had two beautiful white birds.... in a heart shaped white wicker basket with white roses on it .... it was just awesome !!!.... I told , in the eulogy , of this big man friend I had up in the great lakes of Canada , who was so touched by Stuarts poem , that he sent these two white doves to symbolize Stuart`s wee soul soaring up the Heaven.....

I asked Stuart`s Mum to open the basket at the end of the Service and there was a big round of applause and hardly a dry eye in the hoose........ You are simply the BEST !!!........ ILUVSYA !!!!! Fi ....xxxx

P.S .... I dont know the couple`s name , but I know where they live , so will take a wee bunch of flowers round... they live in a place called CADHAM , which is just outside Glenrothes and a few minutes from my own village of Markinch..... my Pastor took their details as , they had never done anything like this before , and he said there may be a wee business venture here as often , at funerals , people do mention white doves and he never knew where to direct them .......... God works in wonderful , mysterious ways .......xxxxx

Posted by: Heather 25th Jan 2014, 02:31pm

Jimmuck, that story about Stuart really touched my heart, and it will make me look closer at those who sell The Big Issue, and some other's.

Thank you for telling us about Stuart.

RIP Stuart.

Posted by: dugald 25th Jan 2014, 09:45pm

Guvin Jimm, the kind of "begger" who seems to incur the wrath on this thread, was not the kind one saw around my Govan. As you suggest, the Govan ones tried their best to give something in return. Sometimes the kind we have here in Kingston, Ontario, will stand and play a fiddle or even sing in the summer time, but there is a hard core who simply sit all wrapped up puffing away on their expensive cigarettes, with their 'bunnet' sitting in front of them.

In other parts of Scotland outside the cities I recall many times coming across a lone piper blowing away on his pipes with the hope no doubt that some misty-eyed tourist will stop and listen to the piping and leave a donation to the piper's cause. I have seen this a couple of times on the Duke's Pass climb out of Aberfoyle for example, and I view this as an attraction.... adds a wee touch of Scottish music to the very Scottish scene. I've also witnessed a tinker in the bar of the Tarbert , Loch Fyne, Hotel, playing his pipes. Next morning at breakfast, the proprietor complained to us about the tinker's behavior in his bar, but it did not go to unnoticed that he hadn't stopped the piper playing, and this in turn did not stop drinks being bought for the tinker! I enjoyed the tinker's piping, and I bought him a drink, because I felt he had earned it..

Posted by: Guvin Jimm 26th Jan 2014, 08:47am

QUOTE (dugald @ 25th Jan 2014, 10:02pm) *
Guvin Jimm, the kind of "begger" who seems to incur the wrath on this thread, was not the kind one saw around my Govan. As you suggest, the Govan ones tried their best to give something in return. Sometimes the kind we have here in Kingston, Ontario, will stand and play a fiddle or even sing in the summer time, but there is a hard core who simply sit all wrapped up puffing away on their expensive cigarettes, with their 'bunnet' sitting in front of them.

In other parts of Scotland outside the cities I recall many times coming across a lone piper blowing away on his pipes with the hope no doubt that some misty-eyed tourist will stop and listen to the piping and leave a donation to the piper's cause. I have seen this a couple of times on the Duke's Pass climb out of Aberfoyle for example, and I view this as an attraction.... adds a wee touch of Scottish music to the very Scottish scene. I've also witnessed a tinker in the bar of the Tarbert , Loch Fyne, Hotel, playing his pipes. Next morning at breakfast, the proprietor complained to us about the tinker's behavior in his bar, but it did not go to unnoticed that he hadn't stopped the piper playing, and this in turn did not stop drinks being bought for the tinker! I enjoyed the tinker's piping, and I bought him a drink, because I felt he had earned it..

I am a great believer in "dont work you dont eat" my faither's words (and he did throw me oot for not working: I got a job the next day) might seem harsh but I have never since then gone without a job. When I was wee in Guvin we chopped up old wood of any kind, tied it in bundles and sold it "roon the backs". Other times we would hunt for bottles and take them back to the pubs that carried their label, the sweetie shops that sold ginger, and if we had no label bottles we could take them to a french polishers shop somewhere in Shaw st. and get a penny for them. This was all in aid of going to the movies mid week during the holidays as we had spent our 9d. pocket money at the Plaza Minors on saturday. If somebody is begging and smoking, where does the money come from? Here in OZ two packs a day can cost you $200 and more per week. There are those who fall between the cracks in the pavement but as I have stated before there are plenty out there who see it as their duty to care and assist them. Our ex prime minister lived in a car with his mother and siblings when he was young due to desertion and poverty. All aid should be given to homeless families with children. In this day and age discrimination is essential in differentiating between those whose lifestyle choices have led them to destitution and those who by no fault or choice of their own found themselves destitute. I might seem judgemental but I came from a town and generation that saw real raw poverty and for the most part rose above it.

Posted by: Robert Mullen 26th Jan 2014, 01:15pm

Sometimes I think beggars are not to blame for the situations that they are in. It mostly comes down to fatcat company owners wanting to get richer at the expense of the working class. Most of the time it is do the same amount of work with less people. That is where the saying comes from "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

Posted by: Jupiter 26th Jan 2014, 02:24pm

The so called beggars are all tarred with the money for nothing stick.Ive seen the same guys,all fit looking,sitting on their asses with the poor mouth.One thing is for certain,why should people be expected to help them when they are content to sit there and make no effort to improve their situation?
In my view they are lazy,conniving degenerates.

Posted by: angel 26th Jan 2014, 05:35pm

As I mentioned in an earlier post , here in Toronto begging is illegal but it is not enforced in public places but I believe it is on public transport .

I think that if the public stopped subscribing to these " maybe unfortunates ? on the streets " ! and donated those monies to legitimate charitable organizations , " ... in my opinion the Salvation Army, your local food banks and such like , this would at the very least ,cut down on the street begging .

However , I must say that when I hear entertaining music on the street coming from a busker , I do donate . biggrin.gif

Posted by: GG 26th Jan 2014, 06:54pm

The barefoot begging man was back on a wet and freezing Wednesday at his usual spot. He wasn't there after that, at that pitch anyway, because they are digging up the pavement now!

GG.


 

Posted by: GG 26th Jan 2014, 07:36pm

QUOTE (Guvin Jimm @ 26th Jan 2014, 09:04am) *
[...] I might seem judgemental but I came from a town and generation that saw real raw poverty and for the most part rose above it.

It's an interesting observation, Guvin Jimm. My own thinking is that today's (and tomorrow's) generations will see poverty that is even more damaging to the individual than the poverty of a generation ago, not in terms of material poverty but in terms of emotional and aspirational poverty. I watched many members of my own generation – 'educated' in the eighties – utterly destroyed by a poverty of hope, brought on by the widespread, systematic and almost complete destruction of industry in Glasgow. Before my generation, working-class kids could complete a fairly rudimentary education, and these same kids could still expect to leave school and walk into a decent job or apprenticeship. By the mid- to late-eighties, however, the overwhelming majority of working-class kids leaving education system had virtually no chance of securing decent, sustainable employment. The situation now is much more harsh even than in the eighties; this makes the role of education of pivotal importance to a child's future. The big problem with working-class kids in Glasgow now is that they have to attend awful schools, where they are streamed and garaged through the system, and only a very, very small percentage of the kids have any real hope left by the time they leave school. Once these kids realise the reality of their predicament, then the real problems start, and often there is very little help for them. In the forties and fifties, many children went hungry and cold, but this did not necessarily destroy them, as these were short-term privations, and while not wishing to belittle the hardship of kids growing up in my parents' generation, often this deprivation served to fuel ambition and aspiration. Today, though, I believe, there is now a much harsher reality that is even more destructive, and one that will force ever-increasing numbers of people into desperation and hopelessness – sadly sometimes, just a step away from destitution and homelessness.

GG.

Posted by: Guvin Billy 27th Jan 2014, 01:59am

GG, I take on board what you are saying. (akchewalley my real name is Billy) about the conditions being more acute than in my day 50s / 60s. Generational unemployment did not exist. In my teens and twenties there were few jobs around for people of my persuasion but I could still find them, although these were the jobs for the "Also rans". The unemployment rate overall in the 60s in Scotland was around 8.5%. In the country to the south and this is the South of England the rate was around 4%. Generational unemployment did not then exist except for small pockets of choice. However following reports in the press here, inequality of wealth distribution has risen to unprecedented degrees in the U.K. It was never very equitable to begin with and Scotland was, especially, after the Thatcher " revenge of the lower middle class" placed in a position less than tolerable on this downward sliding scale. I can well sympathise with destitute families and know that there are depredations on a vast scale but begging is no solution and carries with it not only the detrimental effects of generational welfare (now in many cases in the U.K. entering third generation) but if this decline leads to institutioalised begging the effects will be drastic for all levels of society.

Posted by: carmella 27th Jan 2014, 09:30am

I think we all know that there are beggars in every town in the UK big and small alike, I doubt there are many beggars in wee villages though, it seems to me to be a city or large town where you are most likely to see them.

Begging in the UK seems (just an observation) to be an entirely different thing from the kind of begging we see abroad. I visited Egypt many years ago and saw what I can only describe as a form of institutional begging. I questioned what I was seeing and was told it was quite normal, for a woman who lost her husband, or a woman who lost the main man in her family who was the breadwinner, to then leave her home and go to the streets to beg for both food and money.

I saw women, sitting cross legged on the ground with babies less than a year old in their arms - these young women looked so pitiful. I saw older women in their 60s and 70s too.

I could not get my head round this. A very well educated Egyptian man said to me when quizzed, in excellent Englkish "oh but this is normal, it is honourable!"

I think they are used to this - same in India and Pakistan, but we are not used to this. We never used to see people in our streets here in the UK begging until the past 20 years or so.

I know that when I was young, you always knew there were tramps around who probably slept in the countryside, or maybe even in graveyards - to this day I don't know where they slept, all I know is that generally we didn't see them, except once in a while.

I didn't grow up in a city, so I may not be right in what I'm saying, but these days you don't have to grow up in a city to see this - it's everywhere.

Posted by: Scotsman 27th Jan 2014, 09:33am

Its in the ET today that the cooncils homeless unit is at breaking point because of the cuts and the shortage of places for homeless people to stay after they shut down a load of places. The staff are saying that they have never seen it this bad.... once people are made homeless then they end up on the streets and begging.... looks like the council is trying to paper over a problem that their cuts to services are causing in the first place.

Posted by: Heather 27th Jan 2014, 03:10pm

Somehow I don't see Busking as begging as it entertains us when in the town and I have heard some really good singers singing in the streets.
I remember the buskers who entertained us while waiting in a queue to get into the Cinema, especially the Odeon as there was always queue's there.

I have heard the Bagpipes played in the street's in many Countries, even in Salzburg which surprised.

Posted by: Dylan 27th Jan 2014, 07:00pm

Heather,

Mrs. Dylan thinks Buskers are Begging.

However I agree with you, they are street Entertainers/Theater and if I enjoy, I put in a 1.

I wont be divulging the contents of this Post to her you understand. ?

Posted by: Guvin Billy 28th Jan 2014, 01:02am

QUOTE (Heather @ 27th Jan 2014, 03:27pm) *
Somehow I don't see Busking as begging as it entertains us when in the town and I have heard some really good singers singing in the streets.
I remember the buskers who entertained us while waiting in a queue to get into the Cinema, especially the Odeon as there was always queue's there.

I have heard the Bagpipes played in the street's in many Countries, even in Salzburg which surprised.

Had one outside Flinders Street Station in Melbourne. He was a good piper and made it into press and television news. He was young and Scottish. In Melbourne you had to audition before you got a licence to busk in public places. Some went on to be stars. Even had a piper busking in Brisbane.

Posted by: Ken 28th Jan 2014, 03:41pm

From my experience, some of those begging are reasonably well off. We're a 'shot touch' here in the UK.

Posted by: DavidT 28th Jan 2014, 07:58pm

True Ken. "some" are at it. The rest are dirt poor. Make poverty illegal. I'd back that law.

Posted by: angel 28th Jan 2014, 10:22pm

QUOTE (DavidT @ 28th Jan 2014, 07:15pm) *
True Ken. "some" are at it. The rest are dirt poor. Make poverty illegal. I'd back that law.

David , poverty has been around since time began through good periods and bad , no matter the country , and no matter their wefare systems , they have never solved this problem , there are just simply those who would rather sit on the street with no shoes and let the gullible public donate their hard earned monies to these leechers which keeps them in the lifestyle that they prefer .
As I have said previosly , donate to legitimate charitable organisations ..... and if nothing else , it will make those beggars do something for their dollars .

Posted by: GG 28th Jan 2014, 10:33pm

Does anyone remember the industrious beggar in the late seventies/early eighties who used to clean the the ornamentation on the Cathedral Street bridge with a shoe brush. He used to clean the metalwork and then walk along the queues waiting at bus stops on the bridge asking people for a 'donation to keep up his good work'.

Here's a photo of the refurbished ornamentation on the bridge, which is yet to open to traffic, but is already proving a popular pitch for beggars.




GG.

Posted by: wombat 28th Jan 2014, 10:53pm

rolleyes.gif wis wan in the 60s used tae cruise up and doon dalmarnock road,14 overcoats oan bent ower double,always lookin in the shoap windies,heid pressed up against the glass ,manky auld fart,we gave him some sliced meat fae oor shopping,he went ballistic when he opened it up,years later I realised he musta been a jew,(the meat wis gammon laugh.gif )he wis found deid on the riverbank,loadsa moolah sewn inside the lining of his "many"coats yes.gif

Posted by: DavidT 29th Jan 2014, 08:59pm

Already mentioned on here that charity collections does not equal begging. That's of no interest to the organisers of the Commonwealth Games as they will have the streets cleared of 'unauthorised' charities along with the 'beggars'. That's according to The Glasgow Commonwealth Games (Trading and Advertising) (Scotland) Regulations 2013. New restrictions, for the period of the games, exclude any body who has not registered (applied) to be acceptable (approved). Put all this together with the new rules for large gatherings (20 or more) in Glasgow parks and half the city is being legislated out of existence. You wouldnae recognise the place.

Posted by: GG 29th Jan 2014, 09:31pm

Great – and very colourful – recollection, Wombat. smile.gif

I'd forgot about that legislation, David, will need to read up on it. From what I gather, the council are trying to use the opportunity of the Commonwealth Games to get what they see as a more lasting solution to the 'problem' of beggars.

Just remembered this video of begging in Glasgow:


GG.

Posted by: Dylan 29th Jan 2014, 09:38pm

No 5 year old, running about the playground wanted to be a Beggar when they grew up. !

Some have addictions, some are Ex Servicemen who just cannot cope and some have mental problems.

These people are not begging as a career choice.

I do think, there but for fortune and I donate on a random basis.

I do not moralise or judge.

The professional beggers ?. I see them on a Saturday, dropping Mrs. Dylan in Town, at Gorbals. About 20 of them walking into " Work ".

I feel sorry for the woman as they are the ones who sit in the streets on cold days. Was not their dreams either.??

I would not make it illegal, for some this is their only source of income and some are terrified of authority, so do not claim benefits, some do not know how.

We are all Jock Tamson's bairns. !

Posted by: DavidT 29th Jan 2014, 09:56pm

GG, that was a great video. I hadn't seen that before.

Dylan my brother. We are indeed all Jock Tamson's bairns.

Posted by: Heather 29th Jan 2014, 10:43pm

I thought it was a sad video, but very thoughtful of the young woman.

Posted by: dizzybint 30th Jan 2014, 07:12pm

Whit annoys me is the auld wimmin put oot tae beg in the cauld wae a banjo or accordian.. they sit there fur hours while the men who forced them will be comfy at hame..

Posted by: wombat 31st Jan 2014, 09:06pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 23rd Jan 2014, 06:25pm) *
laugh.gif Git tore right intae 'im Big Yin. See that Wombat, he's beggin' fur a skelp roon the lugs


wink.gif take on wombat ,you take on me yes.gif


 

Posted by: *james1947* 1st Feb 2014, 09:16pm

Yes Yes Yes...sick and fed up with so called beggars shoving forward their wee polystyrene cups into my face then wishing me a good day.

Recently I have seen a particular woman with the the same po face in Byres Rd, Buchanan St, Princes St! and Falkirk. (Must be begging to get train fares!)

Then to cap it all, the idiot who sits freezing his......off with no shoes, gets himself photographed by a daily paper walking away with his shoes on.. come on McAskill, sort it out or get lost.

Posted by: big tommy 2nd Feb 2014, 03:07pm

Please come on! Some of the beggars might be genuine, and after all it is not compulsory to give.

Live and let live. Beggars do no harm to anyone.

Posted by: carmella 2nd Feb 2014, 05:40pm

I think most of them are truly genuine. If anyone knows Ayr, and in particular where the Thorntons shop is in the High Street, opposite the Wallace Tower - well, there were beggars there for a long time, at least two of them under the Tower.

It so happened that I felt like a wee sweetie, so went into the Thornton's shop - this was a couple of years ago. Once inside and having made my sweetie choice, I went to the cash desk and the woman said to me "see they two ower there at the tower?" to which I replied, "yes", she said "well they nay mare need to beg than I dae - they get dropped off every morning in a 4x4 at 7.30 afore the shopes open, and get set up for the day's takins!"

Well you can imagine how my flabber was gasted, because never in my life up until that time, did I ever think some beggars were fake. Of course, I don't know the full story and neither does the lady in the sweetie shop, but if she was right, and it could be proved they should have been arrested.

I'm fairly willing to bet the sweetie shop lady didn't tell the police though.

hmmm - makes one think.

Posted by: carmella 2nd Feb 2014, 05:41pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 31st Jan 2014, 09:23pm) *
wink.gif take on wombat ,you take on me yes.gif

oooooh am shakin so amur!!!!

Posted by: GG 2nd Feb 2014, 09:27pm

QUOTE (big tommy @ 2nd Feb 2014, 03:24pm) *
Please come on! Some of the beggars might be genuine, and after all it is not compulsory to give.

Live and let live. Beggars do no harm to anyone.

I think you are right, Tommy. However, it looks like http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23681301 (the genuine ones who have fallen on hard times and have nowhere else to turn) will probably be affected by forthcoming legislation, aimed to curtail the apparently large-scale organised begging which appears to be afflicting many parts of the country just now. I think it is unlikely that legislation will discriminate against 'home-grown' beggars and 'migrant' beggars, as it may be construed as some form of racial discrimination.

GG.

Posted by: GG 2nd Feb 2014, 09:34pm

QUOTE (DavidT @ 29th Jan 2014, 09:16pm) *
Already mentioned on here that charity collections does not equal begging. That's of no interest to the organisers of the Commonwealth Games as they will have the streets cleared of 'unauthorised' charities along with the 'beggars'. That's according to The Glasgow Commonwealth Games (Trading and Advertising) (Scotland) Regulations 2013. New restrictions, for the period of the games, exclude any body who has not registered (applied) to be acceptable (approved). Put all this together with the new rules for large gatherings (20 or more) in Glasgow parks and half the city is being legislated out of existence. You wouldnae recognise the place.

David, here's what Patrick Harvie, Green MSP for Glasgow, had to say about begging and the Commonwealth Games:

QUOTE
Games can't be allowed to sweep beggars under the carpet

"Our task is to deliver an outstanding Games, to showcase Glasgow and Scotland on the world stage, and to bring about genuine and lasting positive change benefits for the people of this great city and the wider Scottish community."

So reads the blurb on the Glasgow 2014 website, in which the organisers of next year's Commonwealth Games set out their role. Aside from the slightly 'public relations' nature of the language, it sounds good.

But what exactly will be done to "showcase" Glasgow, and will the lasting benefits be enjoyed by all the people of the city?

If the City Council has its way, the answers to those questions might be rather worrying. It has been reported that the Council wants new powers to effectively ban begging on the streets, and one business spokesperson has backed them, saying "If people's perceptions of Glasgow are that there are people who are so down on their luck that they can't afford shoes, sitting outside shops, that doesn't do their mindset any good."

It's breathtaking that for some people, the issue of people begging is simply one of image or reinforcing a consumerist mindset for the benefit of retailers. Surely we must accept that this issue is principally about poverty and the needs of people who find themselves reduced to acts of desperation.

Nobody should pretend that begging isn't a problem. But it's first and foremost a problem for the people who find themselves in this dire situation. Any response by local government or the police must be geared toward supporting those people to find a way out of poverty and to resolve the underlying problems in their lives. An authoritarian response like simply moving people on or arresting them will only stigmatise and humiliate them further, making it even harder for them to get their lives back on track.

There are already laws to deal with aggressive or antisocial behaviour on the streets, whether from people begging or by anyone else. Actually people who beg can be far more likely to be the victims of violence and harassment on the streets than to be the perpetrators.

There's also a problem of people being exploited by organised criminals, being trafficked and effectively forced to beg. This is serious cross-border crime, and it should be taken seriously as such. But just like other forms of criminal exploitation when people are trafficked for casual labour, the sex industry or domestic work, it's the organisers who are the criminals, not the people they're exploiting.

Many cities which prepare for big international sporting events try - understandably - to look their best when the world's eyes are upon them. But that must not come at the expense of the most vulnerable people in our community. Our city's response to begging should be to restate our intolerance of economic injustice and poverty, and to redouble our efforts to build a more equal society. A genuine and lasting benefit for Glasgow would be to ensure that people are protected from exploitation and supported when they fall on hard times, not swept under the carpet to avoid offending the eyes of our visitors.

GG.

Posted by: Nlestagr Semina 3rd Feb 2014, 04:30pm

When i was a beggar at London kings cross in the mid 1980's. I begged to feed a habit (drink). There is NO need to give people money. I know in Glasgow there are at least 5 different charities who go out with soup kitchens in the mornings, evenings and in George square at 11pm.

The people who are down and out, get well looked after; the only people who live out on the streets are people who either:

A. chose to live that way
B. or are banned from Hostels.
C. have mental health problems.

I now work for a charity trying to get people off the streets and believe me the people who beg either do it for crack cocaine; heroin, or drink. There are people (wont mention them) that go round beggars and take the money off them. One guy in Glasgow walks round the tron gate collecting money off the Big issue sellers there.

These people are NOT genuine beggars. Please don't give to them. It would be much better if you gave to a charity such as the salvation army or center point.

Begging will always be a problem. In kings cross I used to make at least 30.00 a night. That was in the 1980's. At the soup kitchens back then it was almost middle aged drunks. Now I am afraid to say it is youngsters who have drug addictions who line up each night.

Why not go down to George square at 11pm and you will see mostly addicts having soup now.

Interesting thread.

Posted by: Guvin Billy 6th Feb 2014, 12:49am

"We are not patrons for stubborn and idle beggars, who running from place to place.......make a craft of their begging.....but for the sick, the widow the fatherless and the aged, impotent or lamed' and for your poor brethren, the labourers and manuners of the ground......that they may feel the benifit of Christ Jesus now preached to them."

"Book of Discipline" John Knox: et al.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 6th Feb 2014, 11:13am

QUOTE (wombat @ 31st Jan 2014, 10:23pm) *
wink.gif take on wombat ,you take on me yes.gif

Ba-beee A'm beggin' you-oo
Put your little land in my ha-and ... tongue.gif

Posted by: wombat 6th Feb 2014, 05:08pm

tongue.gif tongue.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjzCDNOBicw&feature=kp

Posted by: GG 6th Feb 2014, 06:43pm

Please stay on-topic here.

And please only post photos here that are relevant to the topic.

GG.

Posted by: big tommy 7th Feb 2014, 09:08am

What in the name of God was that all about?

Posted by: wombat 7th Feb 2014, 07:53pm

laugh.gif a bitta music for tee hee hee. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: rush 7th Feb 2014, 09:06pm

And what has that got to do with the subject in hand? In my opinion, once again another thread ruined by pointless posts.

I for one think begging is a subject that requires serious debate. As usual a really good discussion has descended into stupidity by the usual suspects.

angry.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 7th Feb 2014, 10:05pm

QUOTE (big tommy @ 7th Feb 2014, 10:25am) *
What in the name of God was that all about?


Please refrain from religious comments, which some may find offensive. cool.gif

Posted by: Heather 7th Feb 2014, 11:24pm

laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: rush 8th Feb 2014, 02:46pm

I hate going down the town on a Saturday morning. I don't know whats worse, beggars or charity muggers. You know them people who ask you for your credit card details!

Problem is begging will always happen cause people will give. It will get worse during the Commonwealth Games I think the police will have to get tough and move people on.

Posted by: Heather 8th Feb 2014, 07:19pm

I have never had any Charity ask for my Debit Card details, they would get a big NO from me.

Posted by: DavidT 8th Feb 2014, 07:41pm

I have been (many times) and no doubt will be again what you describe as a charity mugger. I have never been asked to get credit card details from anybody. I have collected cash from the very generous Glasgow public. I have also collected names and addresses from people who said they would like more details about the charity concerned. Their details are never shared with anyone else. None of outer collectors are paid/employed by the charity. There may well be some 'professional' collectors out there, but there are also some genuine old style volunteer charity collectors. Donate or don't donate. The choice is yours. If charity collectors are all you have to complain about then you live in a wonderful place.

There's no need for me to name or promote the charity here. Street collections don't only raise cash. They raise awareness too. Many of the city centre businesses support the various charities present at their doorways. Thank you Glasgow.

Posted by: rush 8th Feb 2014, 08:19pm

Charity muggers are not all I have to complain about about, I am merely expressing my feeling on the subject. I just find it irritating when going up the town. And some young person with a clipboard approaches you wanting to donate money.

Yes Glasgow people are very generous. But my point is a valid one. Up Trongate last Saturday, there were at least 6 of these people out. One stands right in the center of the island when you are trying to cross the road. These people work for the charity and get paid for by the number of details they get. Mainly young students. I'm surprised you have not seen them.

As I said during the Commonwealth Games the problem will get worse. I have no doubt they work for a genuine charity but I would find it less intimidating if I was allowed to walk up and see what the charity is about.

Like most Glaswegians I do donate to a charity (of my choice). But I never ever give to beggars as I think it is just feeding an addiction. If someone wants food, they I will buy them something. But they all want cash. I wonder why?

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 10th Feb 2014, 12:06pm


Daily Mail today.

QUOTE
A beggar in Nottingham who was arresred on an unrelated matter was found to be carrying 800 Pounds which he'd collected in only three days.
Police said the man wasn't even homeless.
Since there was no evidence that he had obtained the Money illegally.
Nottinghamshire Police now fears the man could be one of 10 'hardcore' beggars operating in the city

Posted by: wombat 10th Feb 2014, 08:23pm

thumbup.gif robin hood tongue.gif

Posted by: ktv 11th Feb 2014, 01:01pm

i know some beggars are in "criminal gangs" because the paper said so...bet theyve got bmw's parked round the corner yes.gif laugh.gif

anyway loads of them will be genuine people on hard times.....even some working people have had to resort to foodbanks so what chance does some one with no home and next to no benefits have?

they can be annoying yes but where would we be if we banned everything that annoyed anyone?

"got any change pal"......"no pal".....annoyance over.
"wanna buy a bis issue" ..."no pal"......annoyance over
"got a fiver for my tram to auchinsoogle"...."no pal"...annoyance over.

Posted by: PatBreslin 11th Feb 2014, 03:25pm

Here in southeast London it's the usual sympathy inducing techniques and feigned politeness.

However, lone females experience threats and verbal abuse from these lowlife.

Posted by: Guvin Jimm 12th Feb 2014, 01:33am

QUOTE (PatBreslin @ 11th Feb 2014, 03:42pm) *
Here in southeast London it's the usual sympathy inducing techniques and feigned politeness.

However, lone females experience threats and verbal abuse from these lowlife.

And older, vulnerable citizens whom in the past I have seen "Begged" with menace.

Posted by: Mathieson 13th Feb 2014, 10:49am

Why doesn't the city start a beggars fund with direct debit facilities and a series of collection points so that all our more benevolent citizens and visitors can contribute with beggars being paid daily/weekly from the fund?

That way the city is able to regulate begging, the beggars get a regular payment, the benevolent citizens (and visitors) still get their feel-good fix, and the rest of us don't have to put up with being accosted in our streets by beggars - genuine or otherwise.

As Del Boy himself would say "Everyone's a winner, mange tout?"

Posted by: wombat 13th Feb 2014, 05:35pm

smile.gif I feel privileged to help another being in need. yes.gif

Posted by: carmella 15th Feb 2014, 02:56pm

There are beggars the world over, and there always will be.

Posted by: rush 15th Feb 2014, 05:35pm

Of course there are beggar's the world over. That should NOT stop us talking about it. I still say that it is going to get a lot worse. I went to the cash machine today and was tapped on the back by a young boy of about 10 or 11 years old. I managed to keep my wits about me, but if I had turned round Then his accomplice; whom I did not notice, would have grabbed my money. He was of Eastern European extraction. You need your wits about you now days.

Posted by: Heather 16th Feb 2014, 12:41am

Rush, thanks for the warning. That certainly is a fly trick I was not aware of.

Now I know if I get tapped on the shoulder at the Cash Machine, to put my money in my bag and zip it up before turning round.

Posted by: GG 16th Feb 2014, 07:22pm

QUOTE (rush @ 15th Feb 2014, 05:52pm) *
Of course there are beggar's the world over. That should NOT stop us talking about it. I still say that it is going to get a lot worse. I went to the cash machine today and was tapped on the back by a young boy of about 10 or 11 years old. I managed to keep my wits about me, but if I had turned round Then his accomplice; whom I did not notice, would have grabbed my money. He was of Eastern European extraction. You need your wits about you now days.

If what you say is true, Rush, perhaps public money would be better spent redirecting the city centre's paramilitary-styled 'community support' wardens from handing out 50 fines to lone women for dropping a cigarette butt where there are no bins? Instead, these wardens could target those individuals with more serious intent, i.e. those intent committing the type of alleged criminal activity you mention?

GG.


 

Posted by: GG 16th Feb 2014, 07:42pm

A not uncommon sight in Glasgow city centre now, where unfortunate beggars congregate around the best pitches; in this case, Argyle Street between TK-Maxx and Marks and Spencers.

GG.


 

Posted by: DavidT 16th Feb 2014, 08:05pm

As buskers have been discussed on here I thought this might be of interest..

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/revealed-racist-thugs-sickening-attack-3150707

Posted by: Dylan 16th Feb 2014, 09:36pm

I seen and listened to Melo regularly in Sauchiehall Street, DT.

He was good and did a fine Bob Marley and earned the few pound I gave him.

This was shocking, will watch it on the TV show Street.

I understand he has now left Glasgow which is very sad.

Posted by: DavidT 16th Feb 2014, 10:48pm

Yes Dylan he's gone. I remember him doing s mad version of Redemption Song. These thugs will use any excuse to attack someone. Race is as good as any excuse. Shame.

Posted by: rush 17th Feb 2014, 08:40am

QUOTE (GG @ 16th Feb 2014, 07:39pm) *
If what you say is true, Rush, perhaps public money would be better spent redirecting the city centre's paramilitary-styled 'community support' wardens from handing out 50 fines to lone women for dropping a cigarette butt where there are no bins? Instead, these wardens could target those individuals with more serious intent, i.e. those intent committing the type of alleged criminal activity you mention?

GG.

Very good point GG. The problem there is of course these people would just move on. How are you going to endorse a fine on someone if you don't know their address? I have a feeling (I could be wrong) But these people would just move on to another city or give a false name and address.

When I was on Holiday last year in Spain. The local authorities would just pick up these beggars and put them in jail till they discovered their identity. In Italy they had a huge clear out and deported them back to Romania (I believe).

The cops in Spain just would not leave them alone. They would hassle them to move on all the time.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 17th Feb 2014, 10:24am

QUOTE (Heather @ 16th Feb 2014, 02:58am) *
Rush, thanks for the warning. That certainly is a fly trick I was not aware of.

Now I know if I get tapped on the shoulder at the Cash Machine, to put my money in my bag and zip it up before turning round.

Also if somebody tries to talk to you immediately put your hand over the card slot to stop them getting the card.

My wife lost R1000 on Christmas eve when they swiped her card after watching her put in the pin number.

Posted by: GG 18th Feb 2014, 11:03pm

Beggars in Buchanan Street last week.

GG.




 

Posted by: GG 18th Feb 2014, 11:11pm

QUOTE (rush @ 17th Feb 2014, 08:57am) *
Very good point GG. The problem there is of course these people would just move on. How are you going to endorse a fine on someone if you don't know their address? I have a feeling (I could be wrong) But these people would just move on to another city or give a false name and address.

When I was on Holiday last year in Spain. The local authorities would just pick up these beggars and put them in jail till they discovered their identity. In Italy they had a huge clear out and deported them back to Romania (I believe).

The cops in Spain just would not leave them alone. They would hassle them to move on all the time.

Forgot about this photo from last summer, where community support wardens tried to move on several religious enthusiasts who were trying to preach the Lord's word in Argyle Street. They didn't have much success.

GG.


 

Posted by: rush 19th Feb 2014, 09:58am

I wonder if it would be a good idea for the council to step in and if you want to busk or preach in the city then you have to apply for a permit. Then the community police officers can wander round and make checks. If you don't have your permit then your moved on.

It would be nice if just one Saturday I can walk round the shops without having my ears bombarded with these people and being hassled by canvassers and beggars.

Do these people who preach just turn up? do the ask permission to stand outside the shop, and although I can pass by, the poor shop workers have to put up with it for hours on end. The shoppers don't seem to have a choice in the matter.

Posted by: Billy Boil 21st Feb 2014, 10:11pm

QUOTE (rush @ 19th Feb 2014, 10:15am) *
I wonder if it would be a good idea for the council to step in and if you want to busk or preach in the city then you have to apply for a permit. Then the community police officers can wander round and make checks. If you don't have your permit then your moved on.

It would be nice if just one Saturday I can walk round the shops without having my ears bombarded with these people and being hassled by canvassers and beggars.

Do these people who preach just turn up? do the ask permission to stand outside the shop, and although I can pass by, the poor shop workers have to put up with it for hours on end. The shoppers don't seem to have a choice in the matter.

As is the case in Australia, most councils require a permit to busk or carry out activities at street level. Melbourne requires an audition before a buskers permit is granted. The local government in the largest town next to ours has started issuing permits due to the preponderance of "Buskbeggars" bashing two stringed guitars in time to their mournfull meaningless moaning being passed off as entertainment.

Posted by: GG 22nd Feb 2014, 01:13pm

A timely and worrying reminder – in a letter to the Evening Times yesterday – that begging is not limited to the Glasgow city centre, but is also on the rise in some communities in the city:

QUOTE
Time to fix Govanhill

I'm a Glasgow expat now living in Australia. I lived in Govanhill from 1967 until 1986 and two years ago I went back and was completely appalled at how much the area has changed.

Walking around, at the lights between Allison Street and Victoria Road, I was approached by two young children who asked me for money.

The atmosphere of the area had changed dramatically and for the worse.

I have been looking at photos online of the fly-tipping that is currently going on in the area and reading what locals there have to say.

It is clear that the current situation in Govanhill is causing mental health issues, a risk of disease, accidents and a devaluation of surrounding properties.

I hope to visit Govanhill again at the end of the year, I would love to feel safe to show my children and husband the area where I grew up.

Mrs Browne

GG.

Posted by: Heather 22nd Feb 2014, 02:13pm

I have a friend who has lived in Govanhill all her life and she told me a while ago how bad the area has gone down.

She said the Immigrants were the worse at dumping rubbish anywhere and the Council have done nothing to put a stop to it.

Shopkeepers put boxes of their goods outside their shop, and anything fallen out especially fruit & veg, are left on the pavements to rot and not cleaned up when the shop is closing.

Posted by: DavidT 22nd Feb 2014, 02:37pm

There may well be some truth in that Heather. Did your Govanhill pal ever tell you about the people who volunteer to clean up the city streets?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/real-life/roma-community-clean-up-city-1116369

Posted by: ginaburton 22nd Feb 2014, 11:44pm

QUOTE (GG @ 18th Feb 2014, 11:28pm) *
Forgot about this photo from last summer, where community support wardens tried to move on several religious enthusiasts who were trying to preach the Lord's word in Argyle Street. They didn't have much success.

GG.

The police should just charge those religious nut jobs with disturbing the peace.

Posted by: Mathieson 24th Feb 2014, 10:48pm

QUOTE (ginaburton @ 23rd Feb 2014, 12:01am) *
The police should just charge those religious nut jobs with disturbing the peace.


laugh.gif

Posted by: DavidT 25th Feb 2014, 11:36pm

This is how London's caring mayor helps the homeless. Is this the future for our destitute?

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/homes-not-jails-sleeping-rough-is-not-a-crime-protest-tomorrow-26th-february/

Posted by: GG 25th Feb 2014, 11:49pm

A very disturbing story, David.

I have absolutely no doubt that we will see initiatives like this in Glasgow very soon: firstly, prior to the Commonwealth Games, and then as a routine, ongoing action by police and/or 'community support' wardens. The privileged classes in Glasgow want as much distance between themselves and the poor as possible. As large parts of city centre are now being redesignated upmarket residential areas (see http://www.buchananquarter.co.uk/living and possibly in time the former Goldbergs site), then these classes will exert pressure on legislators to ensure that the latter do as they are told.

Very sad times ahead.

GG.

Posted by: Tally Rand 26th Feb 2014, 12:16am

QUOTE (GG @ 26th Feb 2014, 12:06am) *
A very disturbing story, David.

I have absolutely no doubt that we will see initiatives like this in Glasgow very soon: firstly, prior to the Commonwealth Games, and then as a routine, ongoing action by police and/or 'community support' wardens. The privileged classes in Glasgow want as much distance between themselves and the poor as possible. As large parts of city centre are now being redesignated upmarket residential areas (see http://www.buchananquarter.co.uk/living and possibly in time the former Goldbergs site), then these classes are going to exert pressure on legislators to ensure that the latter do as they are told.

Very sad times ahead.

GG.

Community support wardens!!!! No doubt they are given training to be a service to humanity and I trust that training would have them sing the "Horst Wessel Lied" in resounding chorus. Still as they say "it keeps them aff the streets"!

Posted by: Dylan 26th Feb 2014, 08:22am

Two weeks ago Mrs.Dylan and I had a " Hotel Break " in Ayr.

We were crossing the footbridge from High Street to where TK Maxx is.

An elderly man was begging and being spoken to by a 2 Police Constables, one male ,one female.

As I approached I heard the male ask where he came from and mocking him as he could not pronounce Paisley properly.

I stopped and he then asked how he got to Ayr. He was again mocked for Pronouncing Bus as Boos.!

The male PC noticed and asked aggressively what I wanted. I asked why he was harassing the man as begging was not illegal .

He then asked in a very aggressive tone " Who are you ".

I replied " I'll tell you who I am, I am a witness ".!

The female PC then intervened as she knew the male had crossed the line. She was polite and said they were " Just checking "???

She assured me he would not be moved on.

All this time Mrs,Dylan was pulling me away.

We went to TK Maxx and on leaving the old man was not there.

I do not think this was an isolated case and perhaps a strategy by Ayr Police.?

Posted by: DavidT 3rd Mar 2014, 11:57am

In this report from the Daily Record I couldn't help wondering if they had genuine concern for the welfare of the residents of the Bellgrove Hotel. I got the feeling that they were more concerned with housing benefit savings. Either way this is quite disturbing.

QUOTE
One thing was for sure – they deserved better than the hopeless life on offer in that oppressive building where their chances of beating drink and drugs were virtually zero.

We also deserve better for the 1.5million of our hard-earned cash being pumped into the Bellgrove every year.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/video-daily-record-man-tells-3178222

Posted by: GG 4th Mar 2014, 11:49pm

A Hawick resident recounting a recent visit to Glasgow:

QUOTE
[...] The scene [from http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=27058&view=findpost&p=3656682] was similar to a situation I found myself in only weeks previously. After leaving Central Station, I saw a man spitting on a woman begging in the street. It astounded me that a person could stoop so low.

It was a humiliating experience for a lady already at rock bottom. Whether it was stupidity or bravery that made me voice my disgust at the guy, I don't know. In all honesty, he was wearing headphones and I didn't expect him to hear me. It led to an uncomfortable walk towards St Enoch's tube station, as the man asked if I had a problem and we walked in tandem for a few hundred yards, until the site of two uniformed police officers made him tail off in another direction. Just in the nick of time, for him of course, I'd purposely been letting a stream of reality TV programmes reverberate around in my head and I was turning green. I have to admit, though, I've never been so pleased to see the police.

The similarity in the two cases isn't just that both victims were begging on the streets. It's that the perpetrators of both these vile acts thought it perfectly acceptable to vent their twisted spleens in the full glare of the general public.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if there was no-one around. We are all entitled to our views, but publicly humiliating or attacking people goes far beyond the restraints of an opinion.

The worrying thing for me is that these sort of offences will happen on a daily basis, going unnoticed and unpunished. No-one should be subjected to such things, regardless of the situation. There are many things in life I don't like, but to make one's displeasure known by spitting on someone is just appalling, and shouldn't happen in our allegedly civilised society.

GG.

Posted by: GG 5th Mar 2014, 12:01am

QUOTE (DavidT @ 3rd Mar 2014, 12:14pm) *
In this report from the Daily Record I couldn't help wondering if they had genuine concern for the welfare of the residents of the Bellgrove Hotel. I got the feeling that they were more concerned with housing benefit savings. Either way this is quite disturbing.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/video-daily-record-man-tells-3178222

Thanks for this, David. As you say, truly disturbing. Like something out of Victorian times and happening not far from where the Glasgow 2014 Games will be held this year. You may be interested in reading Kevin McKenna's opinion on this in the Observer this weekend:

QUOTE
Glasgow's homeless hostel scandal trumps independence debate

The appalling conditions in the Bellgrove hotel are a horrifying reminder of how we treat our poorest and most defeated citizens

The most important news story of the year so far has not been George Osborne's ill-considered portrayal of an absentee landlord in Edinburgh the other week. The Tories, ever wedded to metaphors about killing foreigners, have called this the "Dambuster" moment. In fact, the entire debate on Scottish independence is simply not as important as the sharp reminder we got last week about how we permit the poorest and most defeated in our society to be treated.

The Bellgrove hotel on Glasgow's Gallowgate, in the east end of the city, must have been something to behold once. If it's not art deco then the original constructor was probably trying to create a close facsimile of it. Now, you walk past it on the way to Celtic Park on a match day, barely noticing it but knowing that it exists in the city's folklore as a last-chance saloon. That though, doesn't even begin to describe the reality of it. The Daily Record, doing what it has always done best, sent their man in for an overnight stay and then splashed his report across its front page. The squalor and deprivation that he witnessed in this place made me ashamed to be Glaswegian.

Full story here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/01/scotland-poverty-homeless-bellgrove-glasgow

GG.

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 5th Mar 2014, 07:42am

GG, that was a terrible account to read. As a young man I once spent the night trying to sleep in a cardboard box tucked away at the back of a London railway station. I was skint; down but not out and technically just avoiding detection by the railway Police, you might say.
Next day I was back home counting my mistakes before having another go at standing on my own two feet.
Where might I have landed had I not been Young enough to take the knocks and get back up?
Remember Rowan & Martin's Fickle Finger of Fate?

Posted by: gardenqueen 5th Mar 2014, 09:43pm

I was in London today and, not for the first time, saw an old lady who sits outside the station, begging, I presume. She doesn't look well. Today a young girl brought her a cup of coffee and made sure she was comfortable. I felt sorry for her but I can't believe she hasn't been offered somewhere to stay. Maybe she just likes being there but, as I said, she looks unwell.

Along the road, I had to smile (well, a bit anyway) when I saw a young lad begging whilst chatting on his mobile phone. Maybe it is just me but that doesn't seem right somehow. Are some phones free?

As we were leaving London, we could see lots of beggars settling into their spots for the evening. The tourist season is starting up (does it ever stop in London?) so maybe that brings more beggars into the area.

Posted by: Tally Rand 5th Mar 2014, 11:54pm

QUOTE (gardenqueen @ 5th Mar 2014, 10:00pm) *
I was in London today and, not for the first time, saw an old lady who sits outside the station, begging, I presume. She doesn't look well. Today a young girl brought her a cup of coffee and made sure she was comfortable. I felt sorry for her but I can't believe she hasn't been offered somewhere to stay. Maybe she just likes being there but, as I said, she looks unwell.

Along the road, I had to smile (well, a bit anyway) when I saw a young lad begging whilst chatting on his mobile phone. Maybe it is just me but that doesn't seem right somehow. Are some phones free?

As we were leaving London, we could see lots of beggars settling into their spots for the evening. The tourist season is starting up (does it ever stop in London?) so maybe that brings more beggars into the area.

For every "genuine" beggar, how many professionals are there. This has been going on in London since Victorian times, professional begging that is. I have been and seen aggressive begging in Vancouver and Melbourne, two of the richest cities in the world. London is no slouch either in the affluent stakes. That it does occur at this level then I am still of the opinion for the most part of begging, it is a criminal activity.

Posted by: MichaelPron 13th Mar 2014, 09:27am

I for one have noticed recently an increase in begging in Glasgow city centre - there seems to be two seperate groups consisting of (1) the Scottish poor and (2) the foreign lifestyle choice beggars. If there is a ban on beggars should it apply to both groups exactly the same?

Posted by: Tally Rand 14th Mar 2014, 05:19am

QUOTE (MichaelPron @ 13th Mar 2014, 09:44am) *
I for one have noticed recently an increase in begging in Glasgow city centre - there seems to be two seperate groups consisting of (1) the Scottish poor and (2) the foreign lifestyle choice beggars. If there is a ban on beggars should it apply to both groups exactly the same?

You have nailed it with foreign lifestyle choice beggars and I would go further with orginized gangs of beggars who are in Glasgow because it is illegal for them to operate this contrived and thieving industry in other countries, Europe or U.K.

Posted by: *Dee* 3rd Apr 2014, 11:31pm

Beggars in Australia frequently stop people near bus stops and train stations claiming they have lost or do not have enough money for their fare to some suburb or other. But if you offer to buy them a ticket to travel they say their bus or train isn't due or they're not ready to leave yet or some other excuse. A friend of mine from India has a brutal opinion of Australian beggars and street people. He says he's seen people who really are in desperate need but those here - in a country that spends a quarter of taxes on welfare, where there are plenty of emergency shelter beds and emergency financial aid - have no excuses.

Posted by: Billy Boil 4th Apr 2014, 11:29pm

QUOTE (*Dee* @ 3rd Apr 2014, 11:48pm) *
Beggars in Australia frequently stop people near bus stops and train stations claiming they have lost or do not have enough money for their fare to some suburb or other. But if you offer to buy them a ticket to travel they say their bus or train isn't due or they're not ready to leave yet or some other excuse. A friend of mine from India has a brutal opinion of Australian beggars and street people. He says he's seen people who really are in desperate need but those here - in a country that spends a quarter of taxes on welfare, where there are plenty of emergency shelter beds and emergency financial aid - have no excuses.

Back in the 80s in melbourne the "socially aware" politically correct and totaly inept pseudo socialist, or make that socialite government leagalized begging. This led to a plethora of dangerous street aggresive beggars preying on pensioners older, ladies and young mothers. Would they withdraw this insane imposition on a City that has won at least 12 awards as the most liveable city in the world, and certainly one of the most affluent. No way. They were content to see the infestation of the streets of "Marvelous Melbourne" innundated with violent druggies sleeping rough and menacing all they could to feed their addiction. The area around Swanston st and Flinders st station became a 'No Go" area and this condidition was alieviated only by the "clean up" initiated by the advent of the Commonwealth Games.

Posted by: GG 24th Jul 2014, 10:41pm

Organised beggars continue to beg during the Commonwealth Games.

No sign of indigenous beggars, though!

GG.


 

Posted by: Jupiter 25th Jul 2014, 08:27am

Ive read that begging is not illegal well can I pull on my old Polis hat, hung up in 2000 ad and say that this would not have been happening on my or any of my colleagues beats.There was what was called, The Ways and Means Act, in effect the beggar would be on their way by any means.The old Breach of the Peace worked as well.Cops today are a bit namby pamby when it comes to an issue like this.

Posted by: GG 27th Jul 2014, 11:43pm

QUOTE
Charity's fear as beggars vanish from city streets

Charities working with the homeless are broadening their outreach work in Glasgow amid concerns beggars and rough sleepers have fled to outlying areas because of the huge security clampdown in the city centre for the Commonwealth Games.

Charity workers say there are concerns those in need of help could now be overlooked, with many opting to move elsewhere to avoid the high police presence.

Despite a visible drop in the number of beggars in Glasgow city centre, both the council and the police have insisted they have not introduced any new approach to beggars during the Games. ...

Full story here:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/charitys-fear-as-beggars-vanish-from-city-streets.24865105

GG.

Posted by: Jupiter 28th Jul 2014, 12:54pm

I was in Edinburgh on Saturday and the Lothian Road seemed to have a beggar every 30 yards.All of them looked as if they were immigrants.One guy was sitting barefoot but his trainers were jutting out from under a blanket.Fly boy!

Posted by: MacPean 28th Jul 2014, 01:30pm

I find those clip board carrying charity muggers more offensive than beggars, at least beggars don't dance in front of you waving their arms singing 'Hi Guys'

Posted by: Heather 28th Jul 2014, 07:17pm

I wonder how many of the beggars are Illegal Immigrants.

Posted by: MacPean 28th Jul 2014, 07:36pm

Heather there was one that I used to pass everyday on the way to college, he would sit with bare feet. A girl in my class bought him shoes and socks and when she gave him them he swore at her and hid the bag behind his back ohmy.gif total wee con man. He appeared in the newspapers a few weeks later, exposed as an illegal immigrant kidding on to be homeless when he was far from it.

Posted by: john.mcn 28th Jul 2014, 07:55pm

QUOTE (Heather @ 28th Jul 2014, 07:34pm) *
I wonder how many of the beggars are Illegal Immigrants.

Very few i would assume, i passed by 3 the other week in a 5 minute walk and they resembled the Romany type that came over from East Europe and sell big issues.

Posted by: ARu-999 29th Jul 2014, 03:02am

I wonder if there is something the police could do about this in a more planned way?

The purge of the beggars for the CG's is a relief for the majority of people, but once the games finish the jakies will be back on their patches with the same sad story (lie) to tell.

Could we not take our traffic police who, with great enthusiasm, patrol our roads for people doing 53 MPH in a 50 MPH zone or 64 MPH in a 60 MPH zone, and have them conduct a census on the beggar population over a 6 month period?

Admittedly there would be a drop in revenue from the cash cow that is 'traffic control', but the police could be happy in the knowledge that they were doing something the population of Glasgow actually want?

The census results would show up the illegal's and we could do something about getting them back to where they came from, the ones who do it as a lifestyle choice would be exposed as the work-shy filth they are and generally the jakie population would recognise that Glasgow was not the 'soft touch' it used to be.

Posted by: fourbytwo 29th Jul 2014, 08:15am

There is very thin dividing line between beggars, in the 'rich' Commonwealth City, recognised by them sitting on pavements with cups outstretched, and those very annoying people supposedly representing big charities like Oxfam and Red Cross, who seem litter better than footpads.

Looking for charitable donations, the public are duped into forgetting that these people are getting 'fees' for getting customers, and very, very little actually gets to their charities, after fees, administration, and wages are deducted.

Both sets of these 'beggars' are conning people out of money, and with or without the trendy clip-on-badge, I think it is time to clear the streets of them all....

Also, whether illegal or not, beggars should NOT open-up their trade here, and be shunted back to wherever, taking their cups with them...

Posted by: Jupiter 29th Jul 2014, 06:30pm

I think the word "illegals" is being bandied about here when as far as I can see personally, and Ive no facts figures or data for this, that most of the beggars are probably EU citizens,here on EU passports and latching on to a UK population perhaps not that used to seeing beggars and therefore in the eyes of those with their polystyrene cups an easy touch.
I would have thought that any "illegal" would maintain a low key profile and not put themselves in a position where they could be checked out by every passing officer.

Posted by: john.mcn 29th Jul 2014, 06:46pm

The 'illegals', certainly from Pakistan/India/China will already be employed in the takeaway shops/restaurants , and by employed i mean working off their room, board and transport costs, so in effect they will be indentured labour.

Posted by: Heather 29th Jul 2014, 08:24pm

I was in the Town today and saw at least four beggars in Argyle Street.
They got nothing from me.

Posted by: carmella 1st Aug 2014, 11:02am

I don't give to beggars regardless of who they are now, I used to put a few coins in to some, but no more.

I remember once putting a 50p piece into a hat on the street, in fairly recent years on a trip up to Glasgow, but as I walked away the guy sitting on the ground, said something derrogatory that he thought I hadn't heard with regard to me just giving him 50p.

That's me done folks, no more do I drop anything in.

Posted by: Purplefan 1st Aug 2014, 01:11pm

When i was homeless in the 1970's the majority of beggers were local old men who had drink problems and would beg in the town center. Then in the 1980s i noticed a lot of young teenager who would turn up at the soup kitchen in George square.
Now the begging industry has changed.
I used the word "Industry" becaus that is how it has become. Professional beggers.
When in london the beggers used to get charged by the criminal gangs so they could use the pitch.
For example.
ROund westminster abby the beggers would have to pay 50.00 a week; witch was nothing. I could make 150.00 every other day. Now it seems the ROmanian Gypsies have the market.
In manchester there is a guy who goes round colecting the money off the women and children who beg. So just be careful who you give your money to.

Posted by: Dylan 1st Aug 2014, 01:28pm

Interesting PF.

I have never seen a child begging in Glasgow ( or Britain )

If I did I would phone the Police for the child's safety. !

Posted by: Dylan 1st Aug 2014, 01:30pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 1st Aug 2014, 12:19pm) *
I don't give to beggars regardless of who they are now, I used to put a few coins in to some, but no more.

I remember once putting a 50p piece into a hat on the street, in fairly recent years on a trip up to Glasgow, but as I walked away the guy sitting on the ground, said something derrogatory that he thought I hadn't heard with regard to me just giving him 50p.

That's me done folks, no more do I drop anything in.

You should have gone back and retrieved your 50p. biggrin.gif

Posted by: carmella 1st Aug 2014, 02:29pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 1st Aug 2014, 02:47pm) *
You should have gone back and retrieved your 50p. biggrin.gif

Yes thats just what I should have done.

Posted by: Heather 1st Aug 2014, 06:56pm

Carmella, I stopped giving to beggars when I noticed so many of them were foreigners and thinking they probably get Social Security.

On one occasion a young woman stopped me in Argyle Street and asked me where she could get a No. 20 bus. I took her to the bus stop and then she said she had no money and needed the bus fare. I told her ' tough ' and walked away.
When I looked back she was stopping other people who just ignored her. No doubt she found a softie to hand her some money.

Posted by: mlconnelly 1st Aug 2014, 08:57pm

I stopped donating when I notice they could afford better trainers than me and that was long before foreigners took over laugh.gif . Mary

Posted by: Scotsman 21st Aug 2014, 01:00pm

Read this in the Record today.... must be one of those hard working Eastern European migrants we keep hearing are making the country a better place!! ohmy.gif

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/cheeky-beggar-makes-daily-80-mile-4081042

Posted by: Heather 21st Aug 2014, 02:10pm

Aye Scotsman, I also read that. That man has a right cheek on him. angry.gif

It's time to throw all these foreign beggars out the Country as well as the so called Asylum Seekers.
I sick to the teeth about the way this Country is being ripped off by those Immigrants who bypass other Countries to come to soft touch Britain because of the higher rates of Benefits.

Posted by: Alex Saville 21st Aug 2014, 09:02pm

Those that arrived at Tilbury in a container are now applying for Asylum. They set out deliberately to violate our borders and enter illegally, their reward for being caught is to apply for Asylum.
And the politicians wonder why UKIP is getting support!
So much for Cameron getting tough on immigration!
Unfortunately, not one politician is calling for them to be deported back to Belgium and let the Belgians deal with them.
That'll keep the PC Brigade happy.
Another drain on our tax money!
Alex



Posted by: Dave Grieve 22nd Aug 2014, 06:45am

QUOTE (Dylan @ 1st Aug 2014, 03:45pm) *
Interesting PF.

I have never seen a child begging in Glasgow ( or Britain )

If I did I would phone the Police for the child's safety. !

Over here its been proven that some beggars 'rent' babies as it gives them the 'sympathy' factor when standing at a street corner.

Posted by: CAT 9th Sep 2014, 03:48pm

My Friends office looks onto Buchanan street and their is a whole team of them all working together. The one who sit's down to do the begging takes off their shoes so they are sitting with bare feet and gives them to another to watch.
I used to always give money even to the drinkers and sometimes the drug addicts these people now are profesional and I dont give to them. But on the whole if it's a wee scots laddie or lassie I can't help myself. Last christmas there was a what a thought to be wee lassie (she turned out on second glance to be a lot older) sitting freezing outside primark on Argyle street instead of money I went in and bought her a jumper and a pair of gloves and gave here a burger. I just thought rather than give 50p to everyone just help one person. Just before I handed it over I thought am I being a mug here but the look on her face made me realise I'd done the right thing, I wasn't just throwing a coin at her I saw her as a human being. Now I couldn't do that every week but if I could maybe just do it once or twice a year then maybe I might make a small difference but who know's

Posted by: carmella 9th Sep 2014, 05:22pm

I was just wondering, did anyone see the news item (might have been on SKY News) yesterday or Sunday about a man who had been arrested for this very thing?

It transpired that he dressed accordingly when he went to the streets on the beg, but apparently he lived a very luxurious lifestyle and was worth a fortune.


Posted by: Dylan 9th Sep 2014, 06:59pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 9th Sep 2014, 06:39pm) *
I was just wondering, did anyone see the news item (might have been on SKY News) yesterday or Sunday about a man who had been arrested for this very thing?

It transpired that he dressed accordingly when he went to the streets on the beg, but apparently he lived a very luxurious lifestyle and was worth a fortune.


It must have been in England Carmella as begging is not illegal in Scotland .

Purple Fan, a member on here , told us he could earn up to 800 per week when begging !.

Posted by: carmella 9th Sep 2014, 08:12pm

I think it was in England, but where it was is not my point. He was begging when he didn't have to, it was a scam.

He was very wealthy before he started begging.

Posted by: Dylan 9th Sep 2014, 08:25pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 9th Sep 2014, 09:29pm) *
I think it was in England, but where it was is not my point. He was begging when he didn't have to, it was a scam.

He was very wealthy before he started begging.

I was not being pedantic Carmella , only informative.

Seems more rewarding than benefits ?

Posted by: wellfield 9th Sep 2014, 10:56pm

Mind what you say...we may all find a need for it someday!

Posted by: GG 19th Oct 2014, 11:08pm

Sadly, an increasingly common site on the streets of Glasgow city centre – much as it is in London. The homeless sleeping and the poor begging together in the doorways of a vacant retail units. This photo was taken last week in Argyle Street near the corner of Jamaica Street.

GG.


 

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 09:56am

As Wellfield says, There, but for the Grace of God. Most working people these days are only the loss of a couple of salaries away from being in the same position as these poor souls. We do well to remember this.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 20th Oct 2014, 11:00am

Melody in Scotland there are in my opinion two kinds of beggars on the streets the first are the people who have just given up on life and chosen to live outside mainstream society, people that just dont care anymore, (I have known at least one man here who walked away from his house full of furniture, car and job because his wife left him and took the kids he has since become a hobo through choice)
Then there are the second group these are the professionals not only foreigners who see it as their livelihood. the ones I see described on this topic seem to fall into the second category, its because of this second group I would have begging banned, people down on their luck in Scotland have recourse to public funds as a hopefully short term resort to getting themselves back on their feet.
Sympathy for people down on their luck is one thing but to encourage fraud and deception is another.

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 11:10am

Who is to decide which is which or who is who Dave? As I said there but for the Grace of God either way.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 20th Oct 2014, 11:17am

QUOTE (Melody @ 20th Oct 2014, 01:27pm) *
Who is to decide which is which or who is who Dave? As I said there but for the Grace of God either way.


A short interview will soon sort out the wheat from the chaff, the wheat must be helped, the chaff must be shown the error of their ways.

Posted by: Dylan 20th Oct 2014, 12:03pm

How do you show someone who has just given up, the error of his ways.

I have previously mentioned on this thread that many Beggers are ex service men who can no longer cope

Many have mental health problems.

Five year olds running about the school playground do not harbour the ambition to be a begger when they

grow up ?

If begging was made illegal what would these poor wretches do ?.

Posted by: Jupiter 20th Oct 2014, 12:50pm

It may be time to re open the Poor House. That would soon focus the minds of the chancers who masquerade as beggars.They would not be in such evidence if they knew that they would be picked up by the Poor House Patrol.Im sure there are many entrepreneurs out there who would invest in such a venture. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Dave Grieve 20th Oct 2014, 01:01pm

Someone who has just given up in the example I gave is the type of person that should be prevented from begging, just because they have given up is no reason for society to give up on them also I most certainly would never consider an ex serviceman who cant cope 'chaff' he or she must be helped, if they are on the streets begging its because they have not received the help that is due to them, for some reason ex service personnel are not valued in the UK the way they should be.
There's a huge difference between someone suffering from stress or mental disorder and others who look upon begging as a way of life and consciously choose to be a beggar, we had one here who despite being a radiographer chose to stand outside a very busy shopping center because she could make more money than working at what she had been trained for, (that is she did beg until exposed,) that's the kind of person I mean should be driven from the streets.

Your problem in Scotland is you don't want to put a stop to a problem in case somebody who should be helped falls between the cracks, nobody at the age of five years old grows up wanting to be a beggar I agree, and nobody who is deprived of making money on the streets will starve of their own volition, they will seek help from any of the charities who exist to help such people.

You pride yourself on being such a wonderful modern society a leader of the first world as the dreamers in Westminster pretend to them selves but cant solve a simple problem like people on the streets begging who should not be on the streets.

A simple interview will soon determine the people who need help and the people who need a stronger approach, but then liberal dreamers will always make an excuse not to do anything in case they offend someone.

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 01:48pm

Man's inhumanity to man. Give folk a break for goodness sake.

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 01:49pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 20th Oct 2014, 02:07pm) *
It may be time to re open the Poor House. That would soon focus the minds of the chancers who masquerade as beggars.They would not be in such evidence if they knew that they would be picked up by the Poor House Patrol.Im sure there are many entrepreneurs out there who would invest in such a venture. rolleyes.gif



Sadly I think they would jump at the chance these days.

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 02:05pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 20th Oct 2014, 02:07pm) *
It may be time to re open the Poor House. That would soon focus the minds of the chancers who masquerade as beggars.They would not be in such evidence if they knew that they would be picked up by the Poor House Patrol.Im sure there are many entrepreneurs out there who would invest in such a venture. rolleyes.gif



I don't think that I've ever read such a cruel and unthinking post on these boards ever before.

Let's hope that you never fall on hard times Jupiter.

Posted by: Dylan 20th Oct 2014, 02:15pm

QUOTE (Melody @ 20th Oct 2014, 03:05pm) *
Man's inhumanity to man. Give folk a break for goodness sake.


I agree.

Posted by: Dylan 20th Oct 2014, 02:17pm

QUOTE (Melody @ 20th Oct 2014, 03:06pm) *
Sadly I think they would jump at the chance these days.


I agree .

QUOTE (Melody @ 20th Oct 2014, 03:22pm) *
I don't think that I've ever read such a cruel and unthinking post on these boards ever before.

Let's hope that you never fall on hard times Jupiter.


I agree .

Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 02:19pm

Thanks Dylan, I was beginning to think that everyone was losing their sense of empathy completely.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 20th Oct 2014, 02:51pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 20th Oct 2014, 04:32pm) *
I agree.

To Dylan and Melody, whats inhuman about taking people off the streets and allowing the British social welfare system that is supposedly the envy of the world to look after them? by allowing them to continue begging on the streets when they need help the most both of you both are showing confused thinking and at worst are guilty of the inhumanity you are quick to accuse others of, if the honest vulnerable beggars are on the streets in all weathers during the day where are they sleeping at night? at least within the system they would have a chance.
The chancers and scammers would only be getting what they deserve

Posted by: Dylan 20th Oct 2014, 03:08pm

QUOTE (Dave Grieve @ 20th Oct 2014, 04:08pm) *
To Dylan and Melody, whats inhuman about taking people off the streets and allowing the British social welfare system that is supposedly the envy of the world to look after them? by allowing them to continue begging on the streets when they need help the most both of you both are showing confused thinking and at worst are guilty of the inhumanity you are quick to accuse others of, if the honest vulnerable beggars are on the streets in all weathers during the day where are they sleeping at night? at least within the system they would have a chance.
The chancers and scammers would only be getting what they deserve

Would the " Poor Catcher " be like the " Child Catcher " in "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang " ?.

I assume you have a Degree in Applied Logic and can identify " The Confused " at fifty paces ?

Posted by: Betsy2009 20th Oct 2014, 03:25pm

A workhouse with training, accommodation, heating, lighting and food wouldn't be such a bad idea.
How many of the people on the street are stuck in 'can't get work/benefits because I don't have an address' situation?
Government help (hah!), volunteer help and self help could be made available. By self help I mean that a plumber/joiner/cook/gardener/etc. who has ended up on the street could show others how to do it to get them interested/started on a course.

Posted by: Dylan 20th Oct 2014, 03:40pm

Would this be compulsory , would they have free choice ?.

This has been tried before in Germany and Russia !.


Posted by: Melody 20th Oct 2014, 03:49pm

Do you know Dylan I think I was right the first time people have lost their empathy and humanity.

Posted by: Betsy2009 20th Oct 2014, 04:01pm

So what would you do to help them?

Posted by: Jupiter 20th Oct 2014, 04:28pm

Melody, I put that post on in the full knowledge and expectation that it would provoke a response.
Please dont suggest that what I write is done without thinking.What I wrote was extreme and Dickensian and something a society as ours would never countenance.
There must however be a solution to this issue as no one whatever the circumstances or motives should be allowed to sit on a cold wet pavement freezing their butts off.
I dont know the answer.
Incidentally I do give to registered charities via DD.

Posted by: ashfield 20th Oct 2014, 04:38pm

Betsy, I'm sure you know that the concept of "workhouses" was to punish people for being poor........is that really what you're suggesting should be reintroduced? If the reports in our national newspapers are to believed, we are likely to see many more folk falling into the category of being consiidered "poor" over the next few years.

Notwithstanding those who try and play the system, my guess is that most of those who get into begging do so because of complex personal reasons. I doubt that humiliating and shaming them by forcing them into a workhouse would solve their problems. I assume that's why they were closed in the first place.

Posted by: angel 20th Oct 2014, 06:56pm

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 20th Oct 2014, 03:18pm) *
So what would you do to help them?


Betsy , A very good question indeed only complaints and no suggestions to a solution . So what else is new !

As I have before on this thread , in Toronto begging is illegal , however that law in not enforced

Maybe that could be because government find it easier and less expensive to let this situation go by the way side, if you like .

Posted by: Betsy2009 20th Oct 2014, 10:40pm

"Betsy, I'm sure you know that the concept of "workhouses" was to punish people for being poor" - actually they were originally put in place to help people rather than punish them.

Take away the word 'workhouse' (which some of you seem to have jumped on without considering the rest of the post) and you will find that there are similar, smaller buildings which provide the residential support/training/work skills/etc that I mentioned in place now for young people and they are very successful. I think they are called Foyers.

Centrepoint in London and other organisations use the foyer system but I don't know of any in Glasgow. There may, of course, be some. There's the usual problem of not enough of them for all the homeless young people but at least they are trying.

I don't see why a similar system couldn't be set up for adults.

Posted by: ashfield 21st Oct 2014, 07:15am

Betsy, if we're talking about getting people back into real work, what you propose could work but check out the recent threads about Remploy to see what current attitudes to "supported employment" are. It is, however, highly unlikely unemployment is the main difficulty of those who beg, alcohol and drug addictions, mental health issues or learning difficulties, homelessness or debt are more common. People in this position are often dubbed "feckless" by some who think, "I had a hard life and survived so why can't they", well if life was so simple to sort.

Angel said that no solutions were being offered, my view is that begging might become less common when we live in a fairer society, where folk on benefits are not vilified, where people get a living wage, where the big corporations and those who own vast tracts of Scotish soil pay the same kind of taxes that ordinary working class people pay. When we sort out the chronic education problems, the quality of the housing stock and the well documented health deficiencies in Glasgow, we might be getting there. We are talking generations of poverty so there are no short term fixes, change will take also take generations to fix but we've got to start somewhere.

Posted by: Melody 21st Oct 2014, 07:53am

[quote name='ashfield' date='21st Oct 2014, 08:32am' post='3685524']
Betsy, if we're talking about getting people back into real work, what you propose could work but check out the recent threads about Remploy to see what current attitudes to "supported employment" are. It is, however, highly unlikely unemployment is the main difficulty of those who beg, alcohol and drug addictions, mental health issues or learning difficulties, homelessness or debt are more common. People in this position are often dubbed "feckless" by some who think, "I had a hard life and survived so why can't they", well if life was so simple to sort.

Angel said that no solutions were being offered, my view is that begging might become less common when we live in a fairer society, where folk on benefits are not vilified, where people get a living wage, where the big corporations and those who own vast tracts of Scotish soil pay the same kind of taxes that ordinary working class people pay. When we sort out the chronic education problems, the quality of the housing stock and the well documented health deficiencies in Glasgow, we might be getting there. We are talking generations of poverty so there are no short term fixes, change will take also take generations to fix but we've got to start somewhere.
[/quote)
Thank goodness there are some who see the bigger picture on here Ash. It's not about what 'to do' with beggars ( put them in foyers, whit?) It's about giving people a chance in life, a proper job and living wage the same as my more fortunate generation had. Problems with drugs for example are most often caused by poverty and lack of opportunity and desperation. It's not about putting sticking plasters on problems it's about solving them. As for solving it all, we need a complete change of government and a will to stop greed of employers.

Posted by: Betsy2009 21st Oct 2014, 10:01am

Fine, let's all wait until the bigger picture of a fair world beds in but in the meantime ..?

I mentioned 'support', not 'supported employment'. Support includes helping people to gain self esteem, to get off drugs/alcohol, to learn that someone cares, to give access to medical care and, indeed, benefits. It's a whole package; a sort of one-top-shop so people are not being passed from one agency to the next.

It's giving them a fishing rod rather than a fish.

Posted by: john.mcn 21st Oct 2014, 11:14am

You might want to ask them first if they want the help.

Posted by: Betsy2009 21st Oct 2014, 11:32am

Well of course it's voluntary. They're not locked in.

Posted by: Dylan 21st Oct 2014, 11:32am

That has been my point.

Will they have free choice or rounded up ?

Posted by: Betsy2009 21st Oct 2014, 11:43am

I think my point is that there are things that could be done but they cost money so no-one is interested.
Much better to spend billions on a new train that no-one wants.

Posted by: angel 21st Oct 2014, 11:44am

I for one do not know how these street begging problems could be solved , as we all know it has been around for centuries and will probably continue to be there forever ,no matter the government in power, because
begging is a way of life and really not a sign of the times , of course there are always exceptions but there does have to be a way to separate
' the wheat from the chaff ' and government programs should be set up to help those who want help .
Unfortunatley this is not just only a scottish problem it is also a big
problem globally .
I have read where lessons are given on the proper way to panhandle ,
would"nt be surprised if those student beggars get diploma's . yes.gif

Posted by: CAT 21st Oct 2014, 01:49pm

It's a hard one as I don't think the poor and vulnerable should be criminalised but there needs to be something done about the professional beggars. I do try to suss them out first but I can't help but give especially early in the morning on my way to work when it tends to be the real homeless out there. No matter if these guy's use it for food or drink or drugs I just think you have to be really desperate to sit in the cold and rain so who am I to judge.
Below is a picture of my Granddaughter . Her dad found her like this in the hall when he asked what she was doing she said I'm a beggar and have no money and no house. Wee change from playing wee shops.


Posted by: carmella 21st Oct 2014, 06:35pm

It is very unfortunate, I know that when I was growing up I rarely saw anyone begging in the streets, either in the city or outside of it. I remember as a young girl my cousins would joke about a man who was a hobo, he called him, but that was the same man all the time in and around the town, not the throngs we see these days.

I have the same thoughts as Dave Grieve does on this matter. Whilst there are obviously genuine people who find themselves begging on the streets for all sorts of reasons, I know that there are some who are not genuinely poor people, but how you sort them out is another thing.

Jup - bringing back the poor house these days, might not be such a bad idea - in fact, the old original poor house in Ayr was recently sold to a developer to be made into flats, I heard last week.

We do live in different times, but I am just one of those people who can't quite get her head around child poverty in this country. If children are living in 'child poverty', they are the responsibility of their parents to be cared for and nurtured, therefore it is the parents who are living in poverty, and I can't understand why in 2014 this should be so.

I keep thinking about stories my parents told me about the hard times during the war, when they lived on rations, this of course was before the NHS and benefits pay outs - but a lot of people in those days had nothing, were their children too referred to as living in 'child poverty' or, is this a modern day phenomenon?

I wish I knew the answer. It's certainly not about making sure people are off drugs, because you've given them a proper job with proper wages, and proper living conditions, unfortunately there is and has always been an element of society who think the rest of us owes them something. Then there are the people who can't cope with life and responsibility because of some emotional or mental condition, and has already been alluded to there are ex-servicemen who have been so used to their military life, then one day they're out with great difficulty in coping and finding work - it's such a terrible shame, and I am one of those people who still think we should have kept our armed forces and increased them, rather than decreased them.

Posted by: Melody 21st Oct 2014, 06:55pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 21st Oct 2014, 07:52pm) *
It is very unfortunate, I know that when I was growing up I rarely saw anyone begging in the streets, either in the city or outside of it. I remember as a young girl my cousins would joke about a man who was a hobo, he called him, but that was the same man all the time in and around the town, not the throngs we see these days.

I have the same thoughts as Dave Grieve does on this matter. Whilst there are obviously genuine people who find themselves begging on the streets for all sorts of reasons, I know that there are some who are not genuinely poor people, but how you sort them out is another thing.

[b]Jup - bringing back the poor house these days, might not be such a bad idea[/b] - in fact, the old original poor house in Ayr was recently sold to a developer to be made into flats, I heard last week.

We do live in different times, but I am just one of those people who can't quite get her head around child poverty in this country. If children are living in 'child poverty', they are the responsibility of their parents to be cared for and nurtured, therefore it is the parents who are living in poverty, and I can't understand why in 2014 this should be so.

I keep thinking about stories my parents told me about the hard times during the war, when they lived on rations, this of course was before the NHS and benefits pay outs - but a lot of people in those days had nothing, were their children too referred to as living in 'child poverty' or, is this a modern day phenomenon?

I wish I knew the answer. It's certainly not about making sure people are off drugs, because you've given them a proper job with proper wages, and proper living conditions, unfortunately there is and has always been an element of society who think the rest of us owes them something. Then there are the people who can't cope with life and responsibility because of some emotional or mental condition, and has already been alluded to there are ex-servicemen who have been so used to their military life, then one day they're out with great difficulty in coping and finding work - it's such a terrible shame, and I am one of those people who still think we should have kept our armed forces and increased them, rather than decreased them.


Remind me folks is this 2014? It must be great to be above it all and believe that the poor shall always be with us. Poor houses? In the name of God, are some folk living in the dark ages on these boards.

Posted by: Dylan 21st Oct 2014, 07:33pm

In Germany, in the 1930's/1940's they concentrated undesirables in compounds.

They did not have free will but it got them off the streets.

I suppose when the poor become more of an embarrassment we could give it a try ?.

Posted by: lubbock 21st Oct 2014, 07:37pm

Who knows the answer. as I sit here in the warmth of my house knowing everything I need is all around Bed, Bath, food,clean clothes the feeling of security....who am I to judge ...sure there those who use begging just to obtain money who may not solely depend on it ...but there are those with major mental health problems whether caused by drugs or drink and those people are getting younger ..sit for just a minute what would it feel like knowing you may not have a bed for tonight or a hot drink or the feeling of been safe .. Lets sort out our social problems at home first before offering aid to other countries .

Posted by: Betsy2009 21st Oct 2014, 07:41pm

Melody please stop getting caught up in the name 'poor house'. Call it a 'brighter future house' if you like but surely somewhere people can go for help, even if it is only a bowl of soup and a warm bed for the night must be better than freezing in a shop doorway.
I know it doesn't answer any problems but it is a way of getting people to come to you to give you a chance to offer them more help rather than just ignoring them.

Posted by: Heather 21st Oct 2014, 07:45pm

Carmella, it's true that some people just cannot manage money.

When working in the Social Security one of my jobs was doing Direct Payments.
This was when those on the Social got into Rent, Electricty, or Gas arrears, and they applied to go on Direct Payments where there was so much deducted at source for the arrears and so much for the actual payment.
When the arrears were cleared we were supposed to stop the payments, but it was not worth while as before long the same people would be back in arrears and we would have to set the deductions up again.

I believe that all Rent, Electricity, and Gas payments should be deducted at source from Social Security. I was told that was the making a nanny state and not encouraging people to manage for themselves.

Posted by: wellfield 21st Oct 2014, 10:36pm

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 21st Oct 2014, 04:31am) *
You might want to ask them first if they want the help.

If they say they want help,give them an alarm clock and a copy of the classified adds......join the club.

Posted by: Betsy2009 21st Oct 2014, 10:46pm

It's just a shame that they can't apply for the jobs because they don't have an address or nice interview clothes or the money for fares to get to the interview or the money to make the call in the first place, etc., etc..

Posted by: ashfield 22nd Oct 2014, 07:59am

Betsy, I'm guessing the reason Melody referred to "the poor house" is because Camella suggested it would be a good idea in her post.

I think what you and Wellfield are suggesting might work, if the folk we are talking about were employable (in the real world rather than the ATOS one that is). As I already said, most of the people begging have multiple problems and live in a chaotic state. GCC took the decision many years ago to close all homeless hostels on the basis that everyone deserves a home. Everyone does deserve a home but not everyone either wants or can sustain a tenancy. The same applies to some people and paid work unfortunately. There will alway be folk who either don't want, or can't, fit into our norms. A decent society should be able to tolerate that without condemnation.

Posted by: Melody 22nd Oct 2014, 08:12am

QUOTE (ashfield @ 22nd Oct 2014, 09:16am) *
Betsy, I'm guessing the reason Melody referred to "the poor house" is because Camella suggested it would be a good idea in her post.

I think what you and Wellfield are suggesting might work, if the folk we are talking about were employable (in the real world rather than the ATOS one that is). As I already said, most of the people begging have multiple problems and live in a chaotic state. GCC took the decision many years ago to close all homeless hostels on the basis that everyone deserves a home. Everyone does deserve a home but not everyone either wants or can sustain a tenancy. The same applies to some people and paid work unfortunately. There will alway be folk who either don't want, or can't, fit into our norms. A decent society should be able to tolerate that without condemnation.


Thanks Ash, I'm grateful that you pointed that out.

Posted by: Betsy2009 22nd Oct 2014, 09:14am

I wonder if you could prosecute the 'professional beggars' under the Trade Description Act?

Posted by: CAT 22nd Oct 2014, 10:49am

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 22nd Oct 2014, 10:31am) *
I wonder if you could prosecute the 'professional beggars' under the Trade Description Act?

laugh.gif

Posted by: carmella 22nd Oct 2014, 07:43pm

I wonder if the likes of Melody ever gives a second thought to the real poor in her city, or the world in general, as she sits in her ivory tower, looking forward to her next night at the ballet!

Perhaps rather than talk, she actually does something on her own to help those less fortunate than she.

Talk is cheap!

Posted by: Dylan 22nd Oct 2014, 07:55pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 22nd Oct 2014, 09:00pm) *
I wonder if the likes of Melody ever gives a second thought to the real poor in her city, or the world in general, as she sits in her ivory tower, looking forward to her next night at the ballet!

Perhaps rather than talk, she actually does something on her own to help those less fortunate than she.

Talk is cheap!


I am " The Likes " of Melody but would not presume to speak for her.

Yes I give more than a second thought to the real poor in Glasgow and the world.

Yes I actually do something to help the less fortunate .

Posted by: Betsy2009 22nd Oct 2014, 08:58pm

The proper tax from this company would pay for at least one facility for homeless people; I'm disgusted at the wimps in the government.

QUOTE
"Facebook paid no UK corporation tax for the second year in a row in 2013, while employees received shares in the company worth tens of millions of pounds.

The world’s largest social media company reported a pre-tax loss of 11.6m in the UK last year, despite its US parent company reporting a net profit of $1.5bn (900m).

UK revenues rose from 34.6m to 49.8m, according to Facebook UK’s latest financial filing at Companies House published on Wednesday.

Facebook UK classifies its turnover as “marketing and engineering services”, because much of the company’s ad revenues are funnelled through Ireland to take advantage of much lower tax rates.

The company made 371m in advertising revenue last year, a 67% year-on-year rise from the 222m in 2012, according to research firm eMarketer.

Facebook UK incurred a corporation tax charge of just 3,169, and received a credit of 182,000.

The company employed an average of 172 UK staff, who were paid 40.8m last year, almost double the 2012 figure of 21m.

This is because of a 15.5m payment cost for “share-based payments”.

UK staff received 1.52m free Facebook shares worth $118m at their current share price of about $78.

There were also 2.2m shares worth more than $170m “outstanding” as at 31 December.

The government has promised a change in the law to crack down on offshore tax avoidance."

Posted by: Melody 23rd Oct 2014, 07:36am

QUOTE (carmella @ 22nd Oct 2014, 09:00pm) *
I wonder if the likes of Melody ever gives a second thought to the real poor in her city, or the world in general, as she sits in her ivory tower, looking forward to her next night at the ballet!

Perhaps rather than talk, she actually does something on her own to help those less fortunate than she.

Talk is cheap!


laugh.gif Oh jealousy is a terrible affliction Carmella. Come to think of it, that's the second time you have attempted to insult me regarding my outings.laugh.gif I need not justify myself to you or to anyone else as to my deeds or my actions.

Wonder away Carmella, wonder away. laugh.gif


Posted by: marydee 23rd Oct 2014, 08:44am

Gaun yersel' Melody

Posted by: Melody 23rd Oct 2014, 08:51am

laugh.gif

Posted by: Betsy2009 23rd Oct 2014, 08:51am

To be fair, for all you know Melody might spend lots of time doing charity work or helping others but just hasn't mentioned it on here.

Posted by: Melody 23rd Oct 2014, 08:54am

Indeed, thanks Betsy.

Posted by: ashfield 23rd Oct 2014, 02:36pm

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 22nd Oct 2014, 10:15pm) *
The proper tax from this company would pay for at least one facility for homeless people; I'm disgusted at the wimps in the government.


I agree Betsy, as would money from the landowners of Scotland. Here's a wee taste of what goes on.

QUOTE
The fact is, however, that the shares of Buccleuch Estates Ltd. are wholly owned by Anderson Strathern Nominees Ltd., a company with a total paid-up share value of 4, whose shareholders are four Edinburgh lawyers, whose total assets amount to 4 and which has not traded since its incorporation in May 1992.


http://www.andywightman.com/?p=942

I would recomend his book, "Poor had no lawyers" as well.

Posted by: Melody 23rd Oct 2014, 02:54pm

An excellent book Ash, also Lesley Riddoch's 'Blossom'.

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 1st Nov 2014, 12:03am

I wonder how it is you "choose to be a beggar". It would be interesting to know what research has been carried out to establish what classes of beggar there are, such as involuntary and voluntary. People may have certain perceptions or be disposed to think that beggars are there by choice, but perhaps that tells us more about the outlook some people have, that anything about who or what beggars really are.

And if you make begging illegal, what measures are you going to take against beggars?

Give them somewhere to live?

Posted by: Jupiter 1st Nov 2014, 12:42am

What I think would be interesting would be to know where he/she goes at the end of the shift sitting at the end of a polystyrene cup.
He/she must be weighed down with coins if as has been reported some beggars make anything up to 100 a day.Do they have a particular shop who changes the coin for notes? I think they probably go to Asda and put all their coins in the big machine at the door that rattles and then gives you a slip to take to the desk.They probably make a charitable donation while they are at it. Aye "At it."Thats what they are at all day,conning decent folk by putting on the poor mouth.

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 1st Nov 2014, 09:45am

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 20th Oct 2014, 03:42pm) *
By self help I mean that a plumber/joiner/cook/gardener/etc. who has ended up on the street could show others how to do it to get them interested/started on a course.


You don't think maybe a plumber or joiner who has ended up on the street might not be the best person to show people how to be a success in the world?

Posted by: Betsy2009 1st Nov 2014, 10:49am

big mortgage, made redundant, unable to find other work (too old?), take to drink/depression, wife kicks you out, no money, no home but mostly no self worth = on the street.
Doesn't mean you're a bad plumber though!

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 1st Nov 2014, 10:53am

Would you hire a plumber sleeping rough in a cardboard box?

Would you take instructions on self worth from a guy on the street because he had no "self worth"?

Posted by: Betsy2009 1st Nov 2014, 11:06am

That's why he can't get back on his feet.

Being invited to train young people off the street gives back his self worth as well as having the been there/done it experience to enable meaningful communication with them.

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 1st Nov 2014, 11:09am

Have you tried this, or is this just naieve optimism?

Posted by: Betsy2009 1st Nov 2014, 11:49am

Why? What have you done to try to help people, Alex?

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 1st Nov 2014, 05:13pm

I have done a fair amount to help people, and still do so, via local charities and relief organisations. Whilst I'm persuaded of the merit of your 'give a fishing rod' example, I'm far from persuaded that someone who's found himself on the streets and is unemployed is going to find social salvation and a purpose in live by mentoring other down-and-outs. These are frequently people with a variety of mental problems and disorders, and I'm not in the least convinced that they're secret millionaires coining it in by sleeping rough under Waterloo Bridge.

I remember one of the first acts of the Thatcher administration was to remove vagrancy as an offence, and that was a signal to me that their policies were going to have the effect of increasing the poverty divide. Pretty much what it did.

Posted by: Dylan 1st Nov 2014, 08:42pm

They have my sympathy.

There but for fortune !.

Posted by: anawhim 5th Nov 2014, 05:32pm

As a former Glaswegian transient and pan-handler in'63,'64,'65, I find this question at best naive. Begging exists as a symptom of a greater malaise.

The history of begging in Glasgow goes hand in hand with Glasgow's history. It dates from the time of the monasteries to the advent of social work and NGOs such as the Wayside Club, the Salvation Army, the Gap, the Simon Community and others who worked as a fire fighting service for the basic needs of single elderly men who were casually discarded onto the street as a result of Glasgow's Gentrification period in the 60's. These men were left to fend for themselves. The effects of that period of the 60's and 70's have not disappeared, as evidenced by my visit to Glasgow in '95.

Speaking directly to the question of begging, I say let's make it illegal the same day and time that you criminalize poverty in favour of a society where all boats rise with the same tide, and the same day it becomes the law of the land that citizens have a right to meaningful work with a just wage.

In the meantime, I suggest that looking to our own values and ideals in relation to those around us who are in need may be a place to start.

Anawhim

Posted by: Betsy2009 6th Nov 2014, 09:06am

A 90-year-old man is facing up to 60 days in jail for feeding the needy due to a new law that bans people in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, from meal-sharing with the public.

Arnold Abbott risks being fined $500 and spending time in prison after police officers apprehended him while he was handing out meals to homeless people in a park on Sunday.

He was arrested and charged along with two ministers from the Sanctuary Church, which prepares hundreds of meals to dish out every week in their kitchen, while shocked onlookers shouted to officers "shame on you!" in a video published by NY Daily News.

Mr Abbott said: "One of police officers came over and said ‘Drop that plate right now,’ as if I was carrying a weapon."

He added: "These are the poorest of the poor, they have nothing, they don't have a roof over their heads. How do you turn them away?"

In 1999, Mr Abbott sued the City of Fort Lauderdale after he was banned from feeding the homeless on the beach and the court found that the rule was against the Constitution. The new law - which has come into effect or is planned to in Seattle, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, and Philadelphia - was passed last week.

Ron Book, a city lobbyist, told the US newspaper Sun Sentinel: "Whatever discourages feeding people on the streets is a positive thing."

Mr Abbott, who describes himself as his "brother's keeper" who believes "love thy neighbour as thyself", is planning to sue the city again and intends to continue his good-hearted deeds.

The new regulations require groups to be at least 500 feet away from residential properties and food sites are restricted to one per city block, but charities have criticised the rules as forms of implementing social cleansing.

Michael Stoops, community organiser at the National Coalition for the Homeless, told NBC News: "Economic development and tourism don't mesh well with homeless folks and the agencies that serve them."

Mr Abbott set up Love Thy Neighbour in memory of his late wife Maureen in order to continue the humanitarian work they both did by regularly making and sharing food at Holiday Park and Fort Lauderdale Beach

Posted by: Dylan 6th Nov 2014, 09:28am

I heard this on the Radio this morning and as still sleepy , thought I had misheard !.

There are times when I truly despair at mans inhumanity .

Posted by: Betsy2009 6th Nov 2014, 09:42am

If it was here he'd probably be on the new year's honours list.

Posted by: Dylan 6th Nov 2014, 10:00am

Arnold Abbott or the Police officer ?

Posted by: Betsy2009 6th Nov 2014, 10:16am

Choices, choices!
erm ..!

Posted by: angel 6th Nov 2014, 09:15pm

QUOTE (Dylan @ 6th Nov 2014, 08:45am) *
I heard this on the Radio this morning and as still sleepy , thought I had misheard !.

There are times when I truly despair at mans inhumanity .


I heard on the news this afternoon that the 90yr has not been gaoled and he is still serving those meals , but he is or will be charged with this terrible crime.

They are just making an example out of him yes.gif . Pat

Posted by: *mark* 6th Dec 2015, 02:54pm

QUOTE (UPYKLT @ 22nd Jan 2014, 01:53am) *
The first thing that comes to my mind, is what about the people who really need help? But then it occurs to me, that Britain, has one of the most generous welfare/social systems in the world. It seems to me that nobody, but nobody in the UK needs go without help. Unless I'm missing something, begging in the UK is a scam.

The UK may have a welfare system, but if you're only on 200 a fortnight to live on, its entirely possible you may well need to beg to get the rest of the money you need to enjoy even a modest lifestyle.

Posted by: Betsy2009 6th Dec 2015, 03:24pm

If you, for example, miss an appointment at the dole office (even if for a very good reason) you can be punished by receiving no money at all for 2/3/4 weeks.

Posted by: Melody 6th Dec 2015, 05:33pm

A whole lot of people these days would be far better off in prison they'd be fed and watered and have a dry roof over their heads. Fairly makes you think.

Posted by: GG 6th Dec 2015, 08:48pm

It does, Melody. And many of the Tory and New Labour shower would definitely want to see the prison population increase dramatically, as then shareholders would get a nice wee enhanced dividend from their shares in the private detention and imprisonment scam.

GG.

Posted by: petunia 6th Dec 2015, 08:50pm

QUOTE (Melody @ 6th Dec 2015, 05:41pm) *
A whole lot of people these days would be far better off in prison they'd be fed and watered and have a dry roof over their heads. Fairly makes you think.

I get what you mean as far as getting 3 square meals a day and a dry place to lay ones head but better off in prison don't think so if they haven't done anything to merit it.

Posted by: wombat 6th Dec 2015, 08:51pm

QUOTE (GG @ 6th Dec 2015, 08:56pm) *
It does, Melody. And many of the Tory and New Labour shower would definitely want to see the prison population increase dramatically, as then shareholders would get a nice wee enhanced dividend from their shares in the private detention and imprisonment scam.

GG.

rolleyes.gif

 

Posted by: ARu-999 7th Dec 2015, 02:42am

Getting back to the question that was raised more than a year ago ... Glasgow and begging
and the legality of begging.

I once used to give money to beggars, I now do not, I don't buy Big Issues nowadays
whereas in the past I did.
I wonder why Glasgow seems to appeal to foreign beggars?
We seem to have a high proportion.
Is this part of the refugee influx we are supposed to embrace?

Posted by: Melody 7th Dec 2015, 08:22am

Aye well as Glaswegians we do and should try to embrace everybody as ye just never know which one just might be an angel. smile.gif

Posted by: ARu-999 7th Dec 2015, 09:14am

.... AN ANGEL???

Well I have to admit I don't have an answer to that.

But since the concept Angels is something from fairy tales, I would have to assume they are not.

IMO I will hasten to add.

Posted by: Melody 7th Dec 2015, 09:29am

Ah, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.":)

Posted by: Dave Grieve 7th Dec 2015, 10:11am

QUOTE (Melody @ 7th Dec 2015, 11:37am) *
Ah, "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.":)

thumbup.gif

Posted by: Dave Grieve 7th Dec 2015, 10:13am

QUOTE (ARu-999 @ 7th Dec 2015, 11:22am) *
.... AN ANGEL???

Well I have to admit I don't have an answer to that.

But since the concept Angels is something from fairy tales, I would have to assume they are not.

IMO I will hasten to add.


When I was a young and arrogant human, I used to have the same outlook as you cool.gif

Posted by: ktv 7th Dec 2015, 10:19am

QUOTE (*mark* @ 6th Dec 2015, 03:02pm) *
The UK may have a welfare system, but if you're only on 200 a fortnight to live on, its entirely possible you may well need to beg to get the rest of the money you need to enjoy even a modest lifestyle.


this is true though i think "broo" money is only about 70 a week.


Posted by: ARu-999 7th Dec 2015, 11:11am

.... well now you are older and less arrogant, good for you!!

I am just older and wiser and see things like 'angels' for what they are ..... but again this is my opinion.

nothing more and nothing less

Posted by: fourbytwo 7th Dec 2015, 01:08pm

thumbup.gif the basic question is who/what is begging....?
Fair enough the plethera of street beggars holding out coffee cups for money is one thing.
Then we have the 'roadblock' of paid volunteers stopping everyone that passes, begging for a donation.
And again we have the 'do-gooders' who waylay you asking for money for some obscure church funded project somewhere far away from Glasgow.
Then finally we have the 'professional footpads' whose role is to try to get you to sign-up to a direct debit for some obscure charity, bleating about how much your help will save lives.....
Who pays them.....?
How much is left for those 'starving kids'.....?
If you want an honest opinion ALL such begging whether 'badged' or not should be banned....! agree.gif

Posted by: Betsy2009 7th Dec 2015, 01:16pm

I prefer to give 'stuff' than money, e.g. furniture/clothes/kitchen things/etc such as organisations which help to kit out a flat for someone who was previously homeless.
(Apart from MSF who I do give money to)

Posted by: ARu-999 7th Dec 2015, 01:28pm

I have to agree with all your points fourbytwo.

Another thing that spoils the streets of Glasgow is the aggressive charity sales tactics of people like the British Red Cross.

That is another charity I now avoid simply because of their 'sales pitch' on the streets

An article worth reading:- http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/09/charities-risk-goodwill-aggressive-fundraising-tactics-olive-cooke

Posted by: Dykejumper 7th Dec 2015, 04:27pm

If you sign up for one of those 3 a month donations with a street fundraiser virtually all the first year's money will all be swallowed up by commission. The charities still think its a good deal for them as donaters are unlikely to cancel.

Posted by: Yogihughes 7th Dec 2015, 04:59pm

I had occasion to wait for the wife while she did a bit of shopping near to maccyd's in Trongate.
The guy begging at the bus stop was greeted by a friend who asked him he was "getting on".
Beggar's reply was " it has been an all right day, 85 quid so I'm heading up the road now".
So I am afraid that the street beggar's will be getting no more of my money in the future.
Not because they are all like that but I wouldn't be able to tell who is really "needy" and who is really "greedy".

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 7th Dec 2015, 06:45pm

QUOTE (ARu-999 @ 7th Dec 2015, 01:36pm) *
An article worth reading:- http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/09/charities-risk-goodwill-aggressive-fundraising-tactics-olive-cooke

Interesting. I have entirely given up contributing to street collectors, with the exception of the poppy appeal. There are two reasons, first, I've changed to supporting my preferred charities by direct debit, and second, I became annoyed by being harassed by aggressive 'moral imperatives' methods in the street, asking loaded questions like 'Can you spare a moment for needy children?' designed to make you feel like a heel if you answer no. One street collector asked me for money for cancer research, and when at the time my deductions were from salary (that Give As You Earn scheme had been introduced), and when I declined, scowled and then drawled "I hope you never need it yourself". Having spent most of my working life before then in a cancer research laboratory, that irked me no end. I just walked away. There is much that rings true in the article, especially the part about 'poisoning the well'.

Did like the reference to pounds, shillings and pence, though. Proper money.

Posted by: Betsy2009 7th Dec 2015, 07:02pm

It's always worth checking how much of the money you give actually goes to the people in need.

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 7th Dec 2015, 07:13pm

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 7th Dec 2015, 07:10pm) *
It's always worth checking how much of the money you give actually goes to the people in need.

In the sixties, my mum used to pay 6d a week to a football pools coupon thing that some chap brought every Friday. She gave her 6d religiously, though never won anything. It turned out that something like a farthing in the shilling went to cancer research (if it ever got there) and the rest was pocket by the outfit. I think it eventually got outed in one of those investigation things that would appear in the Sunday Post or Sunday Mail (in the days when they were worth reading).

Posted by: ARu-999 8th Dec 2015, 02:48am

Like many people on this site I now give money to charity by direct debit, I am reasonably sure the money goes to where it should and I don't get any hard sell from the charities.
Giving money to people on the streets for me is now a thing of the past, the hard sell chancers in tee shirts are simply ignored.
Much like Alex McPhee's experience, there are some that really irritate, I think the worst is at Glasgow Airport.
Just as you get to departures, you have to negotiate around stall asking for money for 'cancer for kids'
You are asked 'do you want to give money for Kids with Cancer, and if you walk past .... then you don't ..... therefore you are a sh!t.

Posted by: Dave Grieve 8th Dec 2015, 07:09am

Seems to be two concerns by the UK posters here. The original was about beggars on the streets. The second is about street collections for various charities.

Here in SA it is impossible to walk a block without a beggar of some sort accosting you. and since we have over 3 million refugees without an income I suppose it is to be expected.

The charity collectors however have more or less been driven of the scene by the government who changed the Lottery setup. All registered charities now get funded by the Lottery and are not allowed to collect on the streets or shopping malls anymore.

Posted by: Thomas 8th Dec 2015, 01:54pm

Walking in Glasgow last week when the storm was raging through Scotland, I went past GOMA and there was a guy under the arch at Rogano's in a sleeping bag and polystyrene cup but most walked by, including myself. Whereas, years ago I would have popped some change into a cup, I don't believe that is the answer and particularly with this guy because round the corner hidden in a dry space was a change of clothes and a bottle of Buckfast....

The week previous to that, I saw some buskers getting hassled by police near to the same spot. These guys were good, they were entertaining, they were street artists but they were being moved on.

Somethings I cannot fathom and street performers add to the ambiance of a city in my view, even if they awful singers or performers but some consider them to be 'beggars' also.


Posted by: ashfield 8th Dec 2015, 04:44pm

QUOTE (Thomas @ 8th Dec 2015, 02:02pm) *
Walking in Glasgow last week when the storm was raging through Scotland, I went past GOMA and there was a guy under the arch at Rogano's in a sleeping bag and polystyrene cup but most walked by, including myself. Whereas, years ago I would have popped some change into a cup, I don't believe that is the answer and particularly with this guy because round the corner hidden in a dry space was a change of clothes and a bottle of Buckfast....


Well done, doing all that detective work on such a wet and windy day. Must have taken you ages rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Thomas 8th Dec 2015, 05:28pm

Well, thanks for that post! You didn't see what speed I was walking at or if I had stopped to let someone pass but you're contribution has added to the thread...

Posted by: ashfield 8th Dec 2015, 06:02pm

No Thomas, thank you. Obviously I have no idea about how quickly you move around the city but, to not only observe the rascal begging in the rain, to then spot his dry clothes in a hidey hole in Exchange Square is remarkable huh.gif

Posted by: Melody 8th Dec 2015, 06:14pm

Wish ah could have found a wee dry place round Exchange Square in the last couple of weeks. smile.gif

Posted by: Thomas 8th Dec 2015, 08:51pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 8th Dec 2015, 06:10pm) *
No Thomas, thank you. Obviously I have no idea about how quickly you move around the city but, to not only observe the rascal begging in the rain, to then spot his dry clothes in a hidey hole in Exchange Square is remarkable huh.gif


Much the same way I can spot a remarkably patronising and sarcastic post!

Posted by: wombat 8th Dec 2015, 09:56pm

QUOTE (Thomas @ 8th Dec 2015, 08:59pm) *
Much the same way I can spot a remarkably patronising and sarcastic post!


rolleyes.gif you B wrong mate yes.gif

0/3

 

Posted by: ashfield 9th Dec 2015, 08:26am

QUOTE (Thomas @ 8th Dec 2015, 08:59pm) *
Much the same way I can spot a remarkably patronising and sarcastic post!


Spot on!

If you also think, that I think, your story was far fetched, well done again thumbup.gif

Posted by: Thomas 9th Dec 2015, 09:27am

QUOTE (ashfield @ 9th Dec 2015, 08:34am) *
Spot on!

If you also think, that I think, your story was far fetched, well done again thumbup.gif


I actually think you're insignificant and your opinion matters not one iota to me. You can continue to be a keyboard ninja but you're dust under my feet now.

Posted by: mitchell 9th Dec 2015, 10:05am

QUOTE (Thomas @ 9th Dec 2015, 10:35am) *
I actually think you're insignificant and your opinion matters not one iota to me. You can continue to be a keyboard ninja but you're dust under my feet now.


biggrin.gif thumbup.gif

Posted by: Thomas 9th Dec 2015, 10:07am

Date of joining this Forum, August 2003 and number of posts contributed to this Forum in that period of time 511 which will include this one. As you may notice in comparison to many who have joined much later, I contribute very few posts for a variety of reasons, including I do have an opinion on everything but don’t feel the need like some to exercise that right.

I try on the whole not to write screeds of text but to keep a post brief, it’s easier for the reader and it makes it easier for people to follow and add their contribution. However, I really resent having someone question my integrity, especially when they have no knowledge of me in person or of my circumstances.

I added an abridged account of my experience in “Should begging be made illegal…” and one contributor decided to question my integrity.

Here is my original post:
Walking in Glasgow last week when the storm was raging through Scotland, I went past GOMA and there was a guy under the arch at Rogano's in a sleeping bag and polystyrene cup but most walked by, including myself. Whereas, years ago I would have popped some change into a cup, I don't believe that is the answer and particularly with this guy because round the corner hidden in a dry space was a change of clothes and a bottle of Buckfast....

The week previous to that, I saw some buskers getting hassled by police near to the same spot. These guys were good, they were entertaining, they were street artists but they were being moved on.

Somethings I cannot fathom and street performers add to the ambiance of a city in my view, even if they awful singers or performers but some consider them to be 'beggars' also.


To clear matters up for me and to address the slight targeted at me by one contributor. I don’t normally walk anywhere in Glasgow, I normally drive. However, I was not allowed to drive for a month due to a severe heart attack. I was sick at looking at four walls and purchased a ZoneCard to allow me freedom to move around. It also made me walk as this is part of the recovery programme but unfortunately the severity of the heart attack has left me fatigued due to the medications and extremely breathless.

Whilst I was walking through that arch at the Rogana where the ‘beggar’ was, there was a small but significant crowd blocking the main arch and it was easier for me to go through one of the smaller archways, here I paused and leaned against the wall, despite the rain, to catch my breath and to get ready for the next part of my walking journey and it was at this point, I discovered the Buckfast bottle and the spare clothes rolled neatly into a ball on a wee bit of ledge of the archway.

Sadly, this explanation is provided because I’ve never attacked a poster in here or slighted them in my posts on this site as I go back to the point that I made earlier, I do have an opinion on everything but don’t feel the need to exercise that right. And as to my story being credible, I wish it wasn’t but I can at least evidence it and the abridged version that I offered was much easier to read than this screed.

Posted by: mitchell 9th Dec 2015, 10:18am

Try reading his inane comments about other posters on the football thread.

Posted by: Betsy2009 9th Dec 2015, 10:23am

Ignore him Thomas and I hope your recovery goes well. Keep up the walking though. Got to get that exercise.

Posted by: Thomas 9th Dec 2015, 10:24am

Mitchell, I've never come across him before but I have the cut of his jib now.

Posted by: mitchell 9th Dec 2015, 11:13am

QUOTE (Thomas @ 9th Dec 2015, 10:32am) *
Mitchell, I've never come across him before but I have the cut of his jib now.


thumbup.gif

Posted by: wombat 9th Dec 2015, 07:50pm

QUOTE (Thomas @ 9th Dec 2015, 09:35am) *
I actually think you're insignificant and your opinion matters not one iota to me. You can continue to be a keyboard ninja but you're dust under my feet now.


what a load of crap, it should be "your ASH under my feet now"? laugh.gif




Posted by: DannyH 9th Dec 2015, 08:19pm

Hello Thomas

I see that you had a heart attack recently. Just thought I would give you a note of encouragement.
I had a heart attack about 27 years ago, and I am still here. In my case it wasn't a bad lifestyle, it was overdoing it with sport.

Anyway, my word of advice to you is to start off doing plenty of walking. Don't jump into your car if your destination is within, say 1 mile. It is amazing the number of people who jump into their cars for that distance.

Secondly, if possible, find some organisation where you can take up activities like table tennis, a walking group. I am 84 now and still participate in both activities. Our walks are between 6 and 8 miles, once a fortnight.

One of the things that comes with a heart attack, is breathlessness. If the chance ever comes, take up the offer of stents. They transformed my life. The day after my operation, I could walk up a very steep hill out in the country, with no breathing difficulties.

Prior to my operation, I had been told I could take a CD with me to listen to during the operation. I took an easy listening one, and watched the path of the stent on a monitor facing me. Later when I was on holiday, and mentioned it to one of the guests at the hotel, he told me his story.

He forgot a CD. The surgeon told him not to worry. The surgeon put on a CD. It was Frank Sinatra, singing, I've Got You Under My Skin.

Finally, keep positive and of course keep taking the pills!

All the Best

Danny Harris

Posted by: Alex MacPhee 9th Dec 2015, 09:53pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 9th Dec 2015, 08:27pm) *
The surgeon told him not to worry. The surgeon put on a CD. It was Frank Sinatra, singing, I've Got You Under My Skin.

Brilliant! That's my laugh of the day!

I've not had heart trouble, but I can echo the benefits of walking. I do have hypertension, and regular walking is fantastic for keeping it under control. Sometimes, in fact, I've to take a drug holiday, or I get light-headed from the BP dipping way below normal, so it's definitely a benefit for the cardiovascular system.

Posted by: Thomas 9th Dec 2015, 10:46pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 9th Dec 2015, 08:27pm) *
Hello Thomas

I see that you had a heart attack recently. Just thought I would give you a note of encouragement.
I had a heart attack about 27 years ago, and I am still here. In my case it wasn't a bad lifestyle, it was overdoing it with sport.

Anyway, my word of advice to you is to start off doing plenty of walking. Don't jump into your car if your destination is within, say 1 mile. It is amazing the number of people who jump into their cars for that distance.

Secondly, if possible, find some organisation where you can take up activities like table tennis, a walking group. I am 84 now and still participate in both activities. Our walks are between 6 and 8 miles, once a fortnight.

One of the things that comes with a heart attack, is breathlessness. If the chance ever comes, take up the offer of stents. They transformed my life. The day after my operation, I could walk up a very steep hill out in the country, with no breathing difficulties.

Prior to my operation, I had been told I could take a CD with me to listen to during the operation. I took an easy listening one, and watched the path of the stent on a monitor facing me. Later when I was on holiday, and mentioned it to one of the guests at the hotel, he told me his story.

He forgot a CD. The surgeon told him not to worry. The surgeon put on a CD. It was Frank Sinatra, singing, I've Got You Under My Skin.

Finally, keep positive and of course keep taking the pills!

All the Best

Danny Harris


Danny, thank you! I've got 5 stents now, 4 from this event and 1 from the previous but sadly, the medications which have been changed many times make me breathless and I am trying to walk and in all kinds of weather. I didn't get the chance of seeing my stents after the procedure due to an emergency being rushed in after my time in the theatre...

Posted by: DannyH 9th Dec 2015, 11:05pm

Hello Thomas

I know we are going off the topic, so I will make this my last response to you. Thank you for your prompt reply. Sorry to hear that it is the medication that is the problem. Anyway, as long as you keep being positive, you will keep going.

Best regards

Danny