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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Questions about Glasgow _ Kelvinside Avenue

Posted by: Steeplejack 17th Nov 2011, 06:00pm

Hello again everyone,

I am aware I haven’t been doing much writing lately but that doesn’t mean I haven’t been reading ! Hardly an evening goes by without a “quick” visit to GlasgowGuide which usually lasts for half an hour forty minutes and makes me late for bed!!

I’ve been trying to locate some old friends that used to live in Kelvinside Avenue. I’ve been aware for some time that most of the Avenue has long-since been demolished. A few weeks ago I wrote to the Glasgow Corporation’s ‘Neighbourhoods North and East Development and Regeneration Services’ department to see if they could tell me when and why the demolition took place. Today I received a reply saying that:-

“I have checked with our Building Control section, because demolition warrants would have been required for the works. We don't have accessible records for demolition of any buildings in Kelvinside Ave for records going back to 88/89. For Oban Drive there was a Council demolition warrant around 2001 for the secondary school. Unfortunately demolition warrants don’t give any explanation as to the reasons for demolition. The warrant is only interested in technical and safety matters related to the method of demolition.”

The old NK school, the church next door and almost the whole of the Avenue was demolished along with the garage on Queen Margaret Drive. Only the Baptist Church and The Belhaven Institute (now a school) has survived. A Google walkabout shows me that even today little has been done to the ever growing demolition site.

Is there anyone still around who remembers the sad story of Kelvinside Avenue? I would be very grateful for any information. It won’t help me find my friends but it will tell me when they had to find somewhere else to live. I suspect it all happened in the late 60s early 70s.

Thanks for any help,
Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 17th Nov 2011, 08:19pm

Steeplejack, as you will be aware NK school consisted of three main,large buildings.The old building,the new building and another built in the eighties I think.There were a couple of wooden buidings adjacent to Agnes Street.They are all gone. There is now a number of blocks of private flats and a Fire station on the grounds of the Old building.Between the Old and New building is a footpath which goes from Oban Drive down to where the back door of the Fire Station is.The Church which was at the bottom of the path is gone.The area to the west of the path lay derelict for a number of years but now building is well on its way on this ground by Queens Cross Housing Dept(I think).The area between Oban Drive and to a point just before where Kelvinside Avenue another block of flats have been completed.Tesco are in there too.
I do recall a little gent I knew who went into a derelict close in Kelvinside Avenue with a big hacksaw intent on cutting cable.This was early 70s.Unfortunately for him the cable was still live and he got more than his eyebrows singed.The building right down at the bottom of the avenue was used as a dinner hall for school meals by NK school.I think the only building still standing is the old church hall,a red sandstone building now called Crosslands pub and a builders yard next door. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Nov 2011, 10:42pm

Hello Jupiter,

Thanks for picking up on the topic. I used to live on the Avenue so went to NK and have sung in the church. I knew the area quite well but time has changed all that. I have never understood why all the demolition was necessary nor am I, so it seems, going to be able to find out. I’ve heard of long-term planning but this surely takes the Glasgow biscuit.

Have they moved the fire station from Kelbourne Street? ( I think that’s where it used to be?) I’m sure, though I can’t see them on Google, the blocks of flats will look very nice on the grounds that used to be behind Kelvinside Ave. The folk living in Oban drive must be delighted with them.

As I recall, Belhaven at the foot of the Avenue, was originally a church, but I do remember having the odd meal in there during school years and the lines of children walking up and down the Avenue.

I’m sorry if I sound a bit sour, but it leaves a nasty taste knowing your home, school and church have been wiped off the map. There must have been a good reason, I’m sure and it would help just to know what it was.

Thanks again for your comments.

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 19th Nov 2011, 11:48am

Hi Steeplejack,thanks for your reply.The avenue was a favourite area of mine when I was at sec school too.I dont think there are too many mysteries about why the whole area was demolished.The buildings of the school for example I think had just outlived their usefulness and that coupled with a dramatic fall in pupil numbers meant that keeping it open was no longer an option.The pupils were transferred to Cleveden School.
The Fire Station in Kelbourne Street is now private flats and a new one is situated on Maryhill Road at a point where Kelvinside Avenue was.
Regarding the demolition of the buildings I think they too had run their course and were in fact no more than slums in the latter days.Im not being derogatory but that was the situation.They were well below what most people would accept as a tolerable standard,ie hot water,baths etc and demolition as opposed to upgrading was the option taken.
I have a friend lives mid way up Oban Drive who is not too impressed by all the building but I suppose thats life.
Best wishes
Joop rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 20th Nov 2011, 01:14pm

Hello Jupiter,

Your explanation sounds very appropriate. I think I was one of a fortunate few on the Avenue to live in a house with all the facilities: inside bathroom, hot water and good heating. I do remember that there were many whose lavatory facilities were still on various landings and back closes and whose houses were without any bathrooms.

The orders for demolition must be archived somewhere. I think I will go back to the planning office and/or the Mitchell Library and see what I can find out. It would be interesting (for me ) to find out when the Avenue was created and what the surrounding area was like back in those days. Clearly Maryhill Road and Queen Margaret Drive were in existence because the Avenue joins the two. I know Belhaven Church was firmly in existence in 1926 but that’s about all I know. I do remember two wee shops about half way down. I think one was called “Dunn’s Stores” and was run by a Mrs. Dunn.

I would be very interested in any photographs of the Avenue if anyone out there has one. Apart from the picture I carry in my mind, I have nothing.

Well Jupiter, It’s been good of you to take the time to read and comment on my queries and grumbles. Thank you. I think it’s time I paid another visit home. I’ve not been up for quite a few years. If nothing else it will at least put my mind at rest as to how everything looks now.

Regards,

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 20th Nov 2011, 02:56pm

There was a pend on the bottom left of the avenue and a coalman called McCarten kept a few horses stabled there.Next to that was a close which had flats which indeed had bathrooms and heating.The windows looked over towards the nursery.
I think I have uploaded some pics of the avenue taken about two years ago and and I must say very little remains of what you would remember.
Joop rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 20th Nov 2011, 06:57pm

Wasn't there a snooker room in there too? In the Pen and off to the right a wooden staircase leading to a timber-built building, I think. Known locally as the "Wee Hell" I know I was threatened with a fate worse than death if I was ever caught anywhere near it!!
The Alley way was a way onto what we used to call the "Sandy Park" where we played football at every spare minute. One goal was painted on the red brick school wall and the other made up by someones jacket or jumper. We're talking late 40s early 50s now.

Cheers,

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 20th Nov 2011, 11:10pm

Youve got me there,Steeplejack!

Posted by: jock 22nd Nov 2011, 12:55am

Was there any connection between Kelvinside Avenue and Kelvinside Gardens?

Posted by: wee mags 22nd Nov 2011, 01:52am

when I first came to the States ,Imet a nice elderly man and woman from Kelvinside Ave ,they were so good to me ,their names were Bill &Isabel Cambell ,they came here to join their daughter Isobel and their son -in-law Stanley Brown ,the year I met them was 1959

Posted by: Jupiter 22nd Nov 2011, 08:39am

Hi Jock in LA.
There was indeed a connection between Kelvinside Avenue and Gardens and it was Agnes Street.
Walking up the avenue you come to Agnes Street and if you follow that you come to Kelvinside Gardens East and West,which was and still is a nice little part of the city. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: jock 23rd Nov 2011, 01:33am

Thanks Jupiter. Nice to hear that Kelvinside Gardens is still around. I went to St. Charles school there.

Walked from old Simpson St. (now gone) along Wilton St.. Crescent Gardens then a short street which led to a "coup", later replaced by stairs, which took you up to Kelvinside Gardens. A long, long time ago.

Posted by: Steeplejack 24th Nov 2011, 03:11pm

Hi Jupiter,

Glad you picked that querie up but I would like to point out that when we used to refer to Kelvinside Gardens the 'a' sound was added to Kelvinsa-ide and there was no letter 'r' in Gardens, it was pronounced Ga--dens" 'cause that was where the posh folk lived !

Chimney sweeping up to the top end of Agnes Street was half a crown a lumb but once round the corner it was five bob ! Honest. The same rule applied to the other side of the river. Those were the days !

Cheers,

Steeplejack

Posted by: Jupiter 24th Nov 2011, 03:54pm

Probably the lums had top quality soot hence the higher cost.
Lang may your lums reek! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: norrie123 24th Nov 2011, 09:37pm

Hi Steeplejack, I was in that area about 3 years ago, photographing all of the tenements of Maryhill and area, I was surprised to see the gap where I assumed NK school stood but I didn' t know of Kelvinside av
I will check my older files to see if I have photos the years prior to demolition but I wont give you much hope
Bye for now, norrie

Posted by: Jupiter 24th Nov 2011, 09:51pm

There are a number of pics of Oban Drive,Kelvinside Ave and NKS school on www.friendsreunited.com.
Joop rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 25th Nov 2011, 05:43pm

Hello Norrie,

Thank you for offering to check your photographs. Any help will be much appreciated. I have no hope at all now that the Avenue is gone so I'll hang on in there just in case.

Are you, by chance an ex Avenue man? I had a friend on the Avenue called Norrie - No 34 or 36 I think he lived at.

Thanks again,

Steeplejack.


Posted by: Steeplejack 26th Nov 2011, 08:50pm

Hi Jupiter,

You must visit a different Friendsreunited to me 'cause I've spent ages prowling the photographs available there and, yes, I can find the demolition of the old school and a background of Agnes Street and Oban Drive but nothing of the Avenue. Are you looking other than at the pictures listed for ready viewing?

Cheers,

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Steeplejack 17th Jan 2012, 10:23pm

Hello All,

I wonder, can anyone help me understand the pictures shown below?

Some time ago when I was asking questions on the site about Kelvinside Ave and its demolition, I went on prowling across the site and as a result discovered a book mentioned by someone called Bygone Maryhill by Guthrie Hutton. I arranged for one of my family to give it to me for Christmas. What an excellent picture reference ! Not only that but inside were two pictures of Kelvinside Avenue. I couldn't believe my luck. It was only when I looked more closely at one of the pictures, Exhibit A, that I began to wonder if it was correct or if the original negative had been placed the wrong way round.

The Avenue was a gentle hill down from Maryhill Road to Queen Margaret Drive. It had shops on one side only - on the left as you went down. There were a couple of small general stores on the left about half-way down, round about No. 37 - 41 and a couple more, electrical and fireplace etc. down towards the Pen at the bottom. There were no shops on the right going down.

The first picture (Exhibit A) as shown in the book suggests there were shops towards the top of the Avenue on the right going up the hill. The architecture of the tenament buildings however, implies they are going down hill?? Would you agree? I know I'm getting on a bit but I just can not make sense of this picture as presented.

I couldn't leave it at that. Obviously someone had taken the picture of the Avenue but I just cannot work out how. After some hair pulling I inverted it (ExhibitB) and then, to me, it looked much more like the real thing. The Avenue was travelling in the right direction, the buildings looked correct and the shops were in the right places. But, the car number plate is now back-to-front !

Can someone please help me by explaining just how the original picture could have been taken.

Exhibit A



Exhibit B



Thanks for any comments you can make.

Steeplejack.

Posted by: glasgow lass 17th Jan 2012, 10:51pm

Good observation on'yir part Steeplejack, am sure that some of our photographer's will offer a few explanations. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 17th Jan 2012, 11:14pm

Hello Glasgow Lass,

That is exactly what I'm hoping for ! If only there had been a decipherable number on the close - that would have helped. It's many a long year since I saw my old home but the pictures are clear in my mind.

Regards,
Steeplejack

Posted by: Rabbie 17th Jan 2012, 11:36pm

I am nea expert in optics! laugh.gif Well I am but thats another story to be telt over a few nippy sweeties.

OK, aff tae wurk noo. You may notice that the text overlay in the second image is also inverted, just like like the reg no on the Rover. The original piccie appears to have been taken through the back of a car windea.

I think it is the incline perception that is confusing here. What appear to be uphill is up is actually downhill. This this is the case, it could account for the left - right side swop.

On a closer shiftie at the original / top image, if you follow the horizontal alignment of the stonework on the tenements, which is hopefully level, you can discern that the slope decends towards the background and rises towards the foreground. Therefore, the wee wifie is walking up a wee brae.

Hope that sheds a wee bit of light on this.

Posted by: glasgow lass 18th Jan 2012, 12:18am

a saw that fotty was snapped from a motor but didn't think it would have made a difference unless the snapper was staunin on his heed, well done Rabbie, is this case closed! laugh.gif

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 08:19am

A is the original and the second one is the same image only the negative has been reversed thus showing a different angle.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 04:36pm

Hello Jupiter and Glasgow Lass,

I’m afraid Jupiter’s answer doesn’t bring an end to the picture question at least not as far as I’m concerned. Let me explain:-
The explanatory text under the second picture (ExhibitB) is inverted simply because, along with the picture, I inverted it ! This text would have no bearing on which way round the original picture was taken or developed. It would have been added to the page after the picture was in place – irrespective of which way round the picture was placed on the page. The car number plate, however, is a different kettle of fish. It is part of the original picture and if the negative had been developed the wrong way round the number plate would be incorrect, which is not the case in the first picture.

The architecture of the buildings suggests to me that the ground is dropping away towards the top of the picture. I’m pleased you agree to that. The implication of this is that we are looking “DOWN” the Avenue towards Queen Margaret Drive and not up the Avenue towards Maryhill Road/Agnes Street. That being the case we must be looking at the right-hand side of the road, looking down the Avenue. There are clearly shop fronts visible and there were no shops on that side of the Avenue. Apart from which all the closes from about No.34 down to the Belhaven Institute (as it was then known ) at the bottom of the Avenue, were demolished pre 1970s and this picture does not show any sign of that demolition.
If my interpretation of the buildings is completely wrong and we are, in fact, looking up the Avenue and the shop fronts in the picture are in fact only two in number and not three or four, then I can just about accept the picture as shown.

I would dearly love to know the number of the visible close behind the young mother. That would solve the mystery in a moment.

It’s a pretty boring topic for most folk so I won’t go on with it. Someone with a personal knowledge of the Avenue may come across the pictures and add a comment. Thanks anyway for your interest and comments.

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 05:03pm

Steeplejack,discount the second image and I think Rabbie has it right.The woman is walking up
towards Maryhill Road.Probably had junior down at the swings! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 06:29pm

Hi Jupiter,

OK if she is walking UP the hill towards Maryhill Road, what side of the Avenue is she on - the left or the right?
My apologies if I misquoted you in mistaking Rabbie's comments for yours. Sorry.

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 08:12pm

If she stayed on the footpath she would come to the HLI pub.East footpath walking south.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 08:20pm

That's what I thought too. So how do you account for the shops which are clearly visible. There were no shops on that side of the Avenue?

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 08:24pm

Doh!Im scratching my head. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 18th Jan 2012, 08:25pm

Ok, lets get away left and rights as they can easily confuscate issues. That's why ships and aircraft have port and starboard designations, they are absolute references, in that these do not change regardless of what direction the vessel is heading or wherever yer nose happens to be pointing.

What we need to clear this up is to ascertain and define ordinal directions and elevation contours. Thankfully in this image not too difficult as there are some distinct clues

1) Shadows.
2) Gradient.
3) A knackered wee wifie shuffling up the hill.

Consult a topographical map and ascertain ordinal direction of downward / upward gradients, then interpolatate this with the shadows. You should be able to determine, with a little loose logic the orientation of the street where the shadows are being cast.

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 08:34pm

Ive found an image of Kelvinside Ave tenements on the SCRAN website but it is a bit small for me to compare.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 08:45pm

Just had a quick look at SCRAN and the image shown in the first picture is of the left side of the Avenue going up towards Maryhill Road. The bottom end of the tenement was blown down and later, a bit more was demolished in the "making safe" process. It is clear, nevertheless, that there are no shop fronts to be seen on that side of the road.

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 08:49pm

The image is a bit blurred.I seem to recall shops on the other side of the street.

Posted by: Rabbie 18th Jan 2012, 08:56pm

Please see map image below.



This shows the Kelvinside Ave has an almost west / east alignment, give or take. Therefore. it is reasonably safe to deduce that the shadows are falling on the southern aspect of the tenements, which would naturally mean the sunlight tenements are on the northern side of the Avenue. This would imply that the shops are also on northern or left as you go up hill, or on the right as you decend, as appears to be indicated in the image.

Posted by: martin_glasgow 18th Jan 2012, 08:58pm

Hi very interesting topic i used to walk up and down kelvinside avenue in the 60's to go to St.Charles Primary School..But like everyone else cant remember exactly were the shops were located.Have attached a detailed street plan of the area to throw into the mix and hope it can jog some memories...

Martin....


Posted by: Rabbie 18th Jan 2012, 09:09pm

Nice one, the benchmarks confirm a downhill gradient from Maryhill Road. We are getting there... elimanation of the obvious hehe.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 09:13pm

Hello Martin, welcome to the fray. Your map is most welcome. Shows a very clear picture of the whole of the Avenue and surrounding streets.

I still think the basic problem is my misinterpretation of the architecture and ground level. The buildings suggest the road is descending towards the top of the picture.

I know exactly where the shops were and most of the folk who lived in the Avenue. I lived, worked and went to church with with them. I used the shops and knew most of the owners.

I just cannot interpret the original picture so if you have any pointers please let's have them.

Steeplejack

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 09:16pm

Hi Rabbie,

Thanks for your scientific approach. As I've just explained to Martin I lived on the Avenue so I do have a fairly good working knowledge of what was where. I suspect my interpretation of the tenement archtecture is at fault. They say the camera never lies but this one is sure trying.
Steeplejack.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 09:33pm

Thanks for bringing up SCRAN. I'd never heard of it before. I shall spend a bit more time digging around there, that's for sure.

There were shops on the other side of the Avenue. I think it was Nos 39 and 41 were two small general stores which sold just about everything. One was called Dunn's Stores and of the two was the older and better known. There were more shops at the Queen Margaret Road end. Most of these were failing. As I recall one was an electrical supplier and another sold stuff for the trades. I have a mental picture of glazed chimney pots in the window. These were all located down by the Pen which is clearly shown on the map supplied by Martin. Also clear on the map is the space between the Belhaven Instutute (marked as a Hall on the corner of Marmion Street) and the end of the tenement. They have built a school on this site.

Posted by: martin_glasgow 18th Jan 2012, 10:19pm

Hi Steeplejack..Here is an Aerial view Picture of Kelvinside Avenue/Queen Margaret Drive And Other Streets. This Gives You A Better View Of Kelvinside Avenue At That Time...
Martin....


Posted by: glasgow lass 18th Jan 2012, 10:40pm

Yoo boyz a just wonderful to be taking the time to help Steeplejack out biggrin.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 11:17pm

Martin, where have these great images come from? There is sufficient detail in the aerial view for me to identify my old back-court! What a great surprise. Even if I don't manage to sort out the questions I've raised about the picture your map and aerial view has made my day ! I have so many memories of my time there. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to contribute.

Steeplejack.

Posted by: Steeplejack 18th Jan 2012, 11:23pm

Hello Glasgow Lass,

All the activity about the Kelvinside Avenue picture is not primarily to help me out but to see whether or not the photograph used in the book I received for Christmas, is genuine, because it portrays some peculiar features which do not sit easy with me. Nevertheless I am very grateful to all the folk who take the trouble and time to contribute and help unravel the queries.

Steeplejack

Posted by: Jupiter 18th Jan 2012, 11:32pm

I was amazed to see the lady and her child in the aerial shot. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 19th Jan 2012, 12:48am

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 18th Jan 2012, 10:48pm) *
I was amazed to see the lady and her child in the aerial shot. rolleyes.gif

Are ye sure it wasnea Princess Di, some mumbo jumbo merchant thought they saw her in a some stained glass windea in a Church or something.

In Fig. 1, I have circled in purple the approx area from where i feel Image 1 could have been taken and labeled a few reference points.

Fig. 1


Posted by: Jupiter 19th Jan 2012, 08:08am

A well thought out plot Rabbie!

Posted by: Jupiter 19th Jan 2012, 08:17am

Rabbie,as a matter of interest do you/did you know Kelvinside Avenue as it was before all the demo work?
Joop.

Posted by: martin_glasgow 19th Jan 2012, 10:05am

Well Done Rabbie Looks Like You Are The Right Person For Working Out The Angles..Is This Now Case Closed ???.?Or Are We All Awaiting On Standby For The Next One.

Jupiter. That Would Be Amazing If We Could Have Seen Two Shadowy Figures In The Aerial Shot That Would Have Had Everyone Talking..

Martin...

Posted by: Steeplejack 19th Jan 2012, 10:12am

Are you sure it's the same lady Jupiter? The only one I can see hasn't got a headscarf on and is walking UP the hill! tongue.gif

Posted by: Steeplejack 19th Jan 2012, 10:36am

I think we are now going round in circles. I am impressed with your research Rabbie but cannot from my personal knowledge of the Avenue and having lived there for a long time, agree with your conclusions. I have said over and over again there were NO SHOPS on the left hand side of the Avenue going up the hill towards Maryhill Road. All the shops were on the same side as NK School.

Thank you all for your interest and contributions. I won't bother you further unless something turns up which solves the problem.

I wonder where the lady with the bairn lives? She would know.

Steeplejack

Posted by: Rabbie 19th Jan 2012, 12:17pm

@_Joop.
My Auntie Jeanie stayed not a kick in the erse away in Raeberry Mer Auntie Dolly was in Shannon Street and G Gran Da was over in Abington Street. When visiting them, which was often, I would to go for long walks all around Maryhill, Ruchill and Kelvinside areas. However, I have to confess that I don't really recall Kelvinside Avenue for any special reason, I dare say at some time I may have strolled up or down it.

In this instance, I am not working from any particular memory, just the info from piccies and maps, there is a wealth of info on these if ye scrap below the surface.

@_Steeplejack.
I understand where you are coming from, I have been there meself a few times, pulling me remain hair oot! The only other explanantion O can offer for this disparity is that the image has been altered in some form or other. However, you have to ask yourself, why would anyone do this and for what reason?

I for one never take anything from the internet as 100% Gospel without corroboration and would encourage everyone to do the same as there is a skipsload of tesco value mince around.
I prefer the old fashioned method, the good old library thumbing through the dusty tomes, cannea beat that at awe. The atmosphere is conducive to research and study, no tae mention a fly wee nip on the way hame. wink.gif

When time permits, which ain't as often as I would like, I do a bit of digging around in the past in Glasgow, particularly in the districts of Townhead, Dennistoun, Garndad and Bridgeton. Both sides of my family have deep roots in these areas going way back to when they were built to accomodate the booming industies that sprung up during the 1800's.

I have a special interest in Toonhied as there is practicallylittle trace of where I used to lived, more alarmingly there are now 2 generations that have no idea that many of the streets many fowks roamed as a weans ever existed.

Sadly, they are under the environs of the M8, "New" Royal Infirmary a pile of skyscrapers and rows of maisonettes. I would love to be able to see piccies of the wealth of wee shops that populated Tooneheid and the defunct part of Alexandra Parade.

The existing on online resources are prettyscant, there just has to be a wealth of images hidden in someones loft, garage, garden shed waiting to be uncovered, digitised and added to the information cloud for the orld to share, before the US Congress Nazis try to police the Net... B'stages. the lot of them.

The search continues....

Posted by: Jupiter 19th Jan 2012, 12:24pm

Cheers Rabbie.Only the toffs pronounce it KELVENSIDE,the rest of us just call it by its real name.My own family also lived at Queens Cross.
rolleyes.gif

Posted by: martin_glasgow 19th Jan 2012, 01:10pm

Steeplejack.. Have added A copy of the valuation roll for 1914.On this it shows a few shops between No.9 And No.11 Kelvinside Avenue.The best way is to get a copy of the Valuation And Voters Roll For that Approx Year You Are Looking For. This Would Give you an Exact Location Of Shops And Properties On The Avenue...What number in kelvinside avenue did you stay at.?



Martin..

Posted by: glasgow lass 19th Jan 2012, 01:25pm

martin what a really great information sheet you have just pulled up.

Posted by: martin_glasgow 19th Jan 2012, 01:34pm

Thanks.Glasgowlass..Have added a link that will take you to the site and if you are looking for a certain street or road just type it in the where box and away you go it's good to see some of the occupations at that time..

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/valsearch.php

Martin..

Posted by: glasgow lass 19th Jan 2012, 01:39pm

Thanks Martin am going to love this one !, once Im back from work rolleyes.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 19th Jan 2012, 01:55pm

It's a real pita that other years of these valuation rolls have not been made available online, they are a excellent tool for research and help fill the void between census returns.

Posted by: Jupiter 19th Jan 2012, 02:17pm

If I could add a wee bit and Ill certainly stand corrected.I think that street numbers in Glasgow are in a system where street numbers all emanate from George Square and, for example Great Western Road,Maryhill Road and Garscube Road all have odd numbers on their left hand side and even on the right going away from the city centre.Hopefully this might help in working out whats what in Kelvinside Ave.

Posted by: andypisces 19th Jan 2012, 03:04pm

no 12 was on the right hand side going down towards the springpark. Had two classmates lived there, ian mcnicol and james leggat

Posted by: Jupiter 19th Jan 2012, 03:08pm

Andypisces thanks for that wee snippet.So would number 12 be next to the chip shop?

Posted by: Rabbie 19th Jan 2012, 04:28pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 19th Jan 2012, 01:33pm) *
If I could add a wee bit and Ill certainly stand corrected.I think that street numbers in Glasgow are in a system where street numbers all emanate from George Square and, for example Great Western Road,Maryhill Road and Garscube Road all have odd numbers on their left hand side and even on the right going away from the city centre.Hopefully this might help in working out whats what in Kelvinside Ave.


Stand at ease, thet man! I can confirm Alexandra Parade conformed to this numbering system.

Posted by: martin_glasgow 19th Jan 2012, 04:28pm

Hi Again I Think I have solved exactly where this woman and her child had their picture taken.The woman and her child were walking up Kelvinside Avenue on the left hand side coming from I presume the swing park..They are about 3 buildings up from Queen Margaret Drive.
All will be revealed tonight i hope once i have edited all the photos and the detailed street plan...And also one observation that the woman carrying a sit on toy car with the boy i am sure he would be sitting on it going down hill.l and this is why she is carrying it up hill..Photos to follow.
Martin.....

Posted by: andypisces 19th Jan 2012, 04:51pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 19th Jan 2012, 02:24pm) *
Andypisces thanks for that wee snippet.So would number 12 be next to the chip shop?

It was the first close round the corner as kelvinside came in from maryhill road.

Posted by: Jupiter 20th Jan 2012, 12:59am

[attachment=36995:P9260067.JPG]
1

Posted by: martin_glasgow 20th Jan 2012, 10:28pm

Location Of Woman And Child Kelvinside Avenue



If you click on above pic and zoom in you can see the yellow arrows 1,2,and3
Arrow no.1 is pointing to what i belive is an alley way or lane under the building as you can see the width of the opening compared to the close opening the woman is walking past.

Arrow no,2 is pointing to the bottom and end of Kelvinside Avenue AT Queen Margret Drive.

Arrow no.3 I belive is a skyline at the opposite side of the swing park



In the above photo I have circled in yellow an opening between the buildings that I believe is an lane or alley for car access.And i have added a Red mark where the Woman and child would be.



In the Aerial Shot Above of Kelvinside Avenue I have marked in Yellow where the opening is located on the detaled Street Plan and you can see that this lane goes down a fair bit behind the rear of thebuilding.I have also marked in Red where i think the Woman and Child were.




And last the above pic is at the bottom of Kelvinside Avenue at Queen Margaret Drive well after demolition and i think the buildings at the far side are the ones you can just make out in photo 1.

Martin..



 

Posted by: Rabbie 21st Jan 2012, 12:57am

Sterling work, Mr. Holmes.biggrin.gif

>~Dons deerstalker and gingerly attempts to spark up the auld churchwarden again, a damned bugger to light those, my dear Holmes. The bugger keeps running away.

Sooo...

Noo then, if ye take a wee gander at the shadows being cast on the pavement and the tenements, have a swig then consider where the sun would have to be positioned to cast these, then if the wee wifie and wean where located were indicated, this would place the sun in a narrow northern quadrant and elevation of (350 deg azimuth, 30 degs elevation)

When the sun decides to grace us, it does not presently attain anywhere near those coordinates in Scotland at any time of year.

A wee bit of rough plane geometry/ trig helps to give a rough indication of suns position, it's approx (170 deg azi, 30 deg elevation) cheerfully shining on the southern aspect of the northern tenements. That's the side the buildings are on your LHS as you puff and pant while hauling yer carcass up the drive.

Good stuff, nothing like a puzzle to solve. Sometimes you have to assume a few wee bits, work backwards and then see if yer answer makes sense. If it does, yer prolly wrang.

Occam's Razor for the win, nearly cut me throot with that swine mony a time!

Posted by: wee davy 21st Jan 2012, 03:02pm

Thats ma Auntie Mary! Recognise that coat, ANYWHERE. Whit wiz she dain doon Kelvinside Avenue, wie a bairn!? lol ohmy.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Jupiter 21st Jan 2012, 03:08pm

Aye Davie, a CandA special.Every second wifey in Maryhill Road had one.Curlers compulsory accessory.
rolleyes.gif

Posted by: wee davy 21st Jan 2012, 05:17pm

Dae ye no mean THIS wan, Joop?



Or THIS wan?


(Think ma Auntie Cathie hid BAITH ai these lol laugh.gif )

Posted by: Jupiter 21st Jan 2012, 05:39pm

First one looks its right off an endangered species.

Posted by: Rabbie 21st Jan 2012, 06:14pm

Pretty sure ah copped a swage at Mary Nesbit, Ella Cotter an Sue Boyle up Blythswood Square hawking thurr mutton wearing something reminicent of those Littlewoods' relics.

An afore you ask, I just happened to be passing through on umm.. bizness, Aye that's it, important bizness.

unsure.gif

Posted by: ashfield 21st Jan 2012, 06:35pm

Ah thought ah was in Wombat's photies there rolleyes.gif

Posted by: wee davy 21st Jan 2012, 06:44pm

artyfacts rabbie, lol artyfacts
(i'll accept your apology oan ma auntie's behalf tongue.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 21st Jan 2012, 08:59pm

QUOTE (Jupiter @ 21st Jan 2012, 04:55pm) *
First one looks its right off an endangered species.


Aye, is that tap wan no a wombat pelt?

Posted by: Rabbie 24th Jan 2012, 01:43pm




Kelvinside Ave junction with Maryhill Road.


Posted by: Jupiter 24th Jan 2012, 02:54pm

Good photo Rabbie with view of HLI Bar on the corner.Id suggest from the angle photo taken from Danny Bunsen or Johnny Whiffs science classes on the top storey of NK school.Keep `em coming Rabbie!
rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 24th Jan 2012, 03:38pm



It's a wee bit higher up than the science class Joop, unless they were flying kites to interact with electrical charges in the form of lightning. Knowing kids of that era, that was a distinct possiblity.

Any idea what the name of the church was (North Kelvinside, perhaps) and the name of the pub on the corner, just opposite Oban Drive and the Church?

Posted by: Jupiter 24th Jan 2012, 03:58pm

Rabbie another good picture.Showing what was called the NK "Old Building" and the junction where Oban Drive and Fergus Drive meet.In the pic there is a view of the HLI and on the other corner I dont think it was a pub although Ill stand corrected and maybe someone can enlighten us.The premises you are on about was a Fish and Chip shop as far as I recall.
Nice to see the lady in curlers and her bairn made it to the top of the avenue.
Im interested in when it was taken as I dont see the wooden buildings which served as a gym.They were on the side of the school and ran parallel to Agnes Street
Rabbie are they the same picture?
rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Rabbie 24th Jan 2012, 04:38pm



Yeap Joop, both snips were cut from the same image. Yet another lucky from the vitual midden. Might be able to date it from state of building, cars, trams etc,.

In order to solve the riddle of "The Wee Wifie in the Funny Coat.", I am raking the vitual midden for more images. My close associates in The Berlin Bunker may have some pre-dating the var, you know.

The Luffwaffle did a better job of collecting aerial images of Glasgow than our RAF Blue Jobs did. Mind ye the RAF did not have any nefarious intent.

Posted by: Jupiter 24th Jan 2012, 05:25pm

This picture shows the wooden gym hall down the side of the school.The buiding between the tenements in Agnes Street was a garage.
One of the things that jumped out was the density of the housing in such a small area which is unrecognisable today.

Posted by: c canning 28th Jul 2012, 11:46pm

im sure thats 14 kelvinside avenue. I stayed there. I even think the kid is me looking down the grate ito the dunnies. Its about 1965. There were shops on the right when you looked down kelvinside avenue. Cant remember what the first one was. but the whitish bit further down was mr singhs

Posted by: Lornamck 6th Jan 2013, 05:20pm

[quote name='c canning' date='29th Jul 2012, 12:03am' post='3583207']
im sure thats 14 kelvinside avenue. I stayed there. I even think the kid is me looking down the grate ito the dunnies. Its about 1965. There were shops on the right when you looked down kelvinside avenue. Cant remember what the first one was. but the whitish bit further down was mr singhs
[/

Posted by: Lornamck 6th Jan 2013, 05:21pm

QUOTE (c canning @ 29th Jul 2012, 12:03am) *
im sure thats 14 kelvinside avenue. I stayed there. I even think the kid is me looking down the grate ito the dunnies. Its about 1965. There were shops on the right when you looked down kelvinside avenue. Cant remember what the first one was. but the whitish bit further down was mr singhs

Is that you Catherine , I lived over the landing from you in 14 kelvinside ave

Posted by: Lornamck 6th Jan 2013, 05:25pm

I used to live in 14kelvinside ave , I was born in 11kelvinside ave then we left for the drum ,for4months, then back to 14,

Posted by: Richard D 7th Mar 2013, 12:37pm

I used to live in Number 10, kelvinside Avenue, the chip shop (baldes).The owner had a bald head,we used to call him baldie.was next to us.The side entrance to the shop was in side our close.ABOUT The shops, There was a Shop on the left going UP, to wards the H.L.I. Pub,Maryhill Road,The Owners name was Mr Sing,it was a very small shop.He used to give everyone Tick.(pay you on pay day) lol.Over on the other side,going down towards the swing park.There was some shops,and one of the shops was turned in to a sweatshop.I remember it had double light blue doors. The picture of the lady WALKING UP THE HILL.Is where the sweatshop use to be.They made them nylon hooded zip child jackets with the furry lining in them.My mum used to get them cheap from there because it was a little factory.The owners where from Indi. My family move from Kelvinside ave in 1971 when i was 12 years old,to live in Merseyside.I still miss Glasgow to this day.We had a great childhood there.

Posted by: *jim* 12th Feb 2014, 09:58pm

QUOTE (wee mags @ 22nd Nov 2011, 02:09am) *
when I first came to the States ,Imet a nice elderly man and woman from Kelvinside Ave ,they were so good to me ,their names were Bill &Isabel Cambell ,they came here to join their daughter Isobel and their son -in-law Stanley Brown ,the year I met them was 1959

Reply to above..

Bill and Isobel (Iza) lived top flat @ 12 Kelviside Ave, Bill was a miller at a Partick four mill. Stan brown, deceased, was my best pal in Glasgow, later in Norwalk CN after we moved to the US.

Stan is survived by a son, James whom I think served in the US military. Stan had a brother by his American mother.... lost track of Isobel in Maine circa 1970.

Jim

Posted by: Shug R 29th Apr 2017, 06:44pm

Hi all, I lived in 12 Kelvinside Ave from when I was 11 till I was 16. The Campbell’s lived below us on the second floor next to the Baries and I can remember a Mr Legette in the close flat who always chased us for playing there when it rained. In number 10 the McDougall’s and the Woods lived and in numbed 14 the Gallagher’s. The Taylor lived on Maryhill Rd, and the McCluskey’s in the corner close. I remember these because they all shared the same back court as me where we played. Yes there was a chip shop you entered from number 10 and the HLI was on the corner with Maryhill RD on the same side as the chippy and that was on your left as you looked at Maryhill Rd. Opposite the HLI and chippy was the Dairy next to Agnes Lane where I helped out once for a bit as a milk boy delivering milk in the area. There was a shop at around number 18 owned by a Pakistani family, the son, who I met a few years late gained a degree in I think philosophy and one in politics.

The houses were demolished because there was old mine workings below the area and during the war the bombing caused the mine workings to become unstable and the ground to slowly sink. Our living room had a clack running from floor to ceiling that continued to reappear every time my parents decorated. The tenements were demolished because they thought they were dangerous. If anyone remembers seeing a painting of a laughing caviller on a top floor room wall after the back facade came down then that was our bedroom, my two brothers and I.

Posted by: Maurice Ahern 19th Aug 2017, 08:28pm

Hi we lived in number 23, anyone remember the Wilsons or the ahern s or mcgregors? Lived there early 70s. Cheers.