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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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Betsy2009
post 8th Jul 2015, 09:55am
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Does anyone actually know what happens to the money we give to the EU? What is it used for (apart from their lavish lifestyle)? If all EU countries are being forced into austerity - what savings have the EU made with our money? Have they cut back on anything?
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ktv
post 8th Jul 2015, 10:38am
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a lot of the money countries give the eu goes on capital/regeneration projects all over the place. a short walk around Glasgow and youl see the wee "EU funded" signs all over the place.

although a someof the money goes to the central bank who then load it to other banks with Wonga style interest so the banks/govs have to then attempt to pay it back by cutting services for the general populous (austerity) whom the money has never reached in the first place.

bank lends bank money, bank cant afford repayments, gov bails out bank then recoups the money from the general population.

bankers get rich...poor get poorer.

capitalism is great aint it
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Betsy2009
post 8th Jul 2015, 10:50am
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So if we went back to the Common Market within Europe (albeit with shared armed forces), lived within our means rather than borrowing, didn't pay the EU a fortune, we'd be able to afford our own regeneration projects.

Beats me why we're in in the first place!

OK - hugely over-simplified, I know, but ...
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Kemedian
post 8th Jul 2015, 11:07am
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QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
so what has that got to do with Greece voting against austerity?

I asked: 'Could The National campaign for a No vote?'

You answered: 'It could.'

You then made it abundantly clear that, despite your initial rebuff about our EU Ref not being about austerity, it clearly will be.

Hence your next comment below...

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
So you knew what would happen but you still voted for it anyway.

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
Showing your lack of knowledge again with that question....maybe you should try and do some of your "research" into what was happening in Greece and why the people have voted not to leave the EU but against the ECB's austerity demands.

In short, the Greeks want a different deal from the ECB in order to stay in the EU, you're right; and good luck to them.

If you want to limit the discussion to our own Ref then address my point to you, which is:

UK austerity bad, EU austerity good?
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ktv
post 8th Jul 2015, 11:22am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 8th Jul 2015, 12:15pm) *
I asked: 'Could The National campaign for a No vote?'

You answered: 'It could.'


stop trolling and read what is written....it could if it was about that but its not



QUOTE
You then made it abundantly clear that, despite your initial rebuff about our EU Ref not being about austerity, it clearly will be.


our eu in/out ref has NOTHING TO DO WITH AUSTERITY...try and understand austerity is happening to US because the likes of YOU voted to keep US in a system that will ensure it happens by voting NO in OUR INDY REFERENDUM....its obviously too complicated for your trolling lil mind to comprehend



QUOTE
In short, the Greeks want a different deal from the ECB in order to stay in the EU, you're right; and good luck to them.


no...it had nothing to do with their membership thus your showing your ignorance of the situation yet again.

QUOTE
If you want to limit the discussion to our own Ref then address my point to you, which is:

UK austerity bad, EU austerity good?

no. the EU has imposed no austerity measures on us....the tory gov you and your ilk clamped us too are doing that all by themselves.

you constantly show absolutely no understanding of anything your talking about in these threads.

how you've been allowed to troll this board for so long is amazing.
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Kemedian
post 8th Jul 2015, 01:35pm
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QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 12:30pm) *
Our eu in/out ref has NOTHING TO DO WITH AUSTERITY...try and understand austerity is happening to US because the likes of YOU voted to keep US in a system that will ensure it happens by voting NO in OUR INDY REFERENDUM.

You're blaming austerity on the result of the last in/out Ref on-the-one-hand, while arguing that it's of no consequence to the next one on-the-other-hand.

Either austerity has nothing to do with both these Ref, or it is relevant to this debate. I say it's relevant. Do you wish to recalibrate your argument? huh.gif

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 12:30pm) *
no...it had nothing to do with their membership thus your showing your ignorance of the situation yet again.

It was you who wrote...

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
maybe you should try and do some of your "research" into what was happening in Greece and why the people have voted not to leave the EU but against the ECB's austerity demands.


QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
the EU has imposed no austerity measures on us....the tory gov you and your ilk clamped us too are doing that all by themselves.

If our government didn't do it, the EU would (if we stopped paying our bills). yes.gif

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
how you've been allowed to troll this board for so long is amazing.

How you've been allowed to call me that for so long is amazing.
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ktv
post 8th Jul 2015, 02:37pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 8th Jul 2015, 02:43pm) *
You're blaming austerity on the result of the last in/out Ref on-the-one-hand, while arguing that it's of no consequence to the next one on-the-other-hand.


no im blaming the likes of you for keeping us tied to a system where austerity was promised....you where happy to go along with the uk govs austerity measures and defended them at every turn.

QUOTE
Either austerity has nothing to do with both these Ref, or it is relevant to this debate. I say it's relevant. Do you wish to recalibrate your argument? huh.gif


both the refs your on about where for totally different reasons...try and get at least the basics of the subject your trolling about




QUOTE
It was you who wrote...


your clearly trolling this thread now.....the greek referendum has nothing to do with them leaving the EU....just let that sink in....ask one of your kids to explain it to you is you must.




QUOTE
If our government didn't do it, the EU would (if we stopped paying our bills). yes.gif


to put it simply enough for you to understand......NO


QUOTE
How you've been allowed to call me that for so long is amazing.

b e c a u s u e..... I t s ...... t r u e !

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Kemedian
post 8th Jul 2015, 03:51pm
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QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 03:45pm) *
I'm blaming the likes of you for keeping us tied to a system where austerity was promised.

Consistently blaming austerity on No voters, while also maintaining that it wasn't an issue in the referendum. TWO INCOMPATIBLE STANDPOINTS.

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 03:45pm) *
both the refs your on about where for totally different reasons.

Essentially, these are both in/out refs.

QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 03:45pm) *
the greek referendum has nothing to do with them leaving the EU

I know (but you did write differently a couple of posts ago).

If the UK was struggling to pay its bills and running out of money, and went begging to the ECB for help, its policy is one of austerity. If you don't like that, you can vote to leave the EU completely, just as you voted to leave the UK (for reasons including its austerity policy, obviously). yes.gif
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ktv
post 10th Jul 2015, 07:58am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 8th Jul 2015, 04:59pm) *
Consistently blaming austerity on No voters, while also maintaining that it wasn't an issue in the referendum. TWO INCOMPATIBLE STANDPOINTS.


no troll boy...if you had any intelligence whatsoever your realise austerity was happening in the UK no matter what.....im blaming you for keeping us part of that system knowing full well what would happen....so how much is your family going to lose after Wednesdays budget then? bet your proud eh


QUOTE
Essentially, these are both in/out refs.


no troll boy the greek referendum wasn't about in/out of anywhere


QUOTE
I know (but you did write differently a couple of posts ago).


so troll boy where did I write they where voting to leave the EU? and you do know the greek referendum wasnt about them leaving the EU, so your admitting all your posts claiming it was is just you trolling yes.gif

QUOTE
If the UK was struggling to pay its bills and running out of money, and went begging to the ECB for help, its policy is one of austerity. If you don't like that, you can vote to leave the EU completely, just as you voted to leave the UK (for reasons including its austerity policy, obviously). yes.gif

theyre not they didn't they haven't so that's just your usual nonsense.


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carmella
post 10th Jul 2015, 08:36am
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ktv

You keep referring to Kemedian as a troll - why is this, and do you even know what a troll is - you have me mystified. Over the years we have had many trolls on these forums, for me they are instantly recognizable, and very soon after they begin to troll - I do not see Kemedian as being one of them, I just wondered where you get your information?

I have read your posts over various topics which he has taken part in, and you keep referring to him in one form or other, as a troll.

He is a regular contributor, not a troll.


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flam
post 10th Jul 2015, 09:16am
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Hear,Hear Carmella if you don,t agree with some people on this great wee site you get dogs abuse, and as you say called a Troll
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ktv
post 10th Jul 2015, 09:34am
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QUOTE (carmella @ 10th Jul 2015, 09:44am) *
ktv

You keep referring to Kemedian as a troll - why is this, and do you even know what a troll is - you have me mystified. Over the years we have had many trolls on these forums, for me they are instantly recognizable, and very soon after they begin to troll - I do not see Kemedian as being one of them, I just wondered where you get your information?

I have read your posts over various topics which he has taken part in, and you keep referring to him in one form or other, as a troll.

He is a regular contributor, not a troll.


I get my information from his posts. he is trolling these threads whether you understand what a troll is or not, its still happening....its nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not.


QUOTE
a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Usually, there posts are stupid, off-topic, inflaming, illogical, or childish.

A troll is different from a participant in a conversation who disagrees with a post or article and sticks to the topic presenting their opinion in a respectful way.

Forums are made for discussing topics with like-minded people, but every once in a while, a troll will come in and start spewing negative words all over the place. Other forum users will often respond and before you know it, the thread goes completely off topic and becomes nothing but one big pointless argument.


I could seek out further definitions if you need further clarity.
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JAGZ1876
post 10th Jul 2015, 02:09pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 8th Jul 2015, 04:59pm) *
If the UK was struggling to pay its bills and running out of money


It has clearly escaped your notice that the UK is struggling to pay its bills and is running out of money.

That's why the national (Dylan won't like me using that word laugh.gif ) debt is currently 1.6trillion and rising. yes.gif
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carmella
post 10th Jul 2015, 02:25pm
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QUOTE (ktv @ 10th Jul 2015, 10:42am) *
I get my information from his posts. he is trolling these threads whether you understand what a troll is or not, its still happening....its nothing to do with whether I agree with him or not.




I could seek out further definitions if you need further clarity.



Don't need lessons from you, I know perfectly well what a troll is, and I'd wager I knew it before you did.

I repeat, he is not a troll, and I get this from his time on the boards as well as his posts.

You ktv are right across his posts no matter what the subject is, and in almost all of your replies, with the exception of a very few, you refer to him as a troll.

I, on the other hand, have read all of your posts, and disagree with most of them, if not all. As has been previously mentioned, we are all entitled to our opinions, unfortunately only those with opposing views, seem to think they are right - you can take out of that what you will.


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ktv
post 10th Jul 2015, 03:16pm
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QUOTE (carmella @ 10th Jul 2015, 03:33pm) *
Don't need lessons from you, I know perfectly well what a troll is, and I'd wager I knew it before you did.

I repeat, he is not a troll, and I get this from his time on the boards as well as his posts.

You ktv are right across his posts no matter what the subject is, and in almost all of your replies, with the exception of a very few, you refer to him as a troll.

I, on the other hand, have read all of your posts, and disagree with most of them, if not all. As has been previously mentioned, we are all entitled to our opinions, unfortunately only those with opposing views, seem to think they are right - you can take out of that what you will.


well you did ask so i told you....hope thats ok with you....how much will you wager then?...and how will you prove it?
his opinion has nothing to do with it....do you know his opinion on anything since youve read all his posts?...care to explain it then as it seems to change, uturn and contradict his other posts....ie trolling.

i care not whether you agree with me or not, im stating the blatantly obvious.


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