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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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ktv
post 10th Jul 2015, 03:17pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 10th Jul 2015, 03:17pm) *
It has clearly escaped your notice that the UK is struggling to pay its bills and is running out of money.

That's why the national (Dylan won't like me using that word laugh.gif ) debt is currently 1.6trillion and rising. yes.gif


edit: the poor are struggling to pay their bills while paying off the debt created by the wealthy thumbup.gif
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Kemedian
post 10th Jul 2015, 10:55pm
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QUOTE (carmella @ 10th Jul 2015, 09:44am) *
He is a regular contributor, not a troll.

Thank you, Carmella.

I first raised this with the moderator many months ago, who explained that he cannot intervene every time the phrase 'internet troll' is used on the boards, and I accepted his decision. I see ktv's behaviour as an attempt to intimidate me and to distract from my line of argument, which is more often than not (99%) at serious odds with his own. I am not a troll, I stand up for what I believe in, which on this thread usually involves going against the grain, so to speak.

QUOTE (ktv @ 10th Jul 2015, 09:06am) *
If you had any intelligence whatsoever you'd realise austerity was happening in the UK no matter what.

As Jagz points out, the UK debt is no better than Greece's, although the Treasury is able still to pay its international creditors, thankfully. In fact, I read somewhere today that the Government is considering lending to Greece because of the knock-on effect of 'Grexit' to the UK economy.

QUOTE (ktv @ 10th Jul 2015, 09:06am) *
The Greek referendum wasn't about in/out of anywhere.

I referred to both last year's Scottish ref and the UK's planned EU ref.

QUOTE (ktv @ 10th Jul 2015, 09:06am) *
Where did I write they were voting (whether or not) to leave the EU?

Here...
QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
Showing your lack of knowledge again with that question....maybe you should try and do some of your "research" into what was happening in Greece and why the people have voted not to leave the EU but against the ECB's austerity demands.


QUOTE (ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
They're not, they didn't and they haven't, so that's just your usual nonsense.

But they would. Several other countries have also undergone EU austerity, I believe; including Cyprus, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy. yes.gif


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john.mcn
post 11th Jul 2015, 12:35am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Jul 2015, 11:03pm) *
Here...

QUOTE
(ktv @ 8th Jul 2015, 10:45am) *
Showing your lack of knowledge again with that question....maybe you should try and do some of your "research" into what was happening in Greece and why the people have voted not to leave the EU but against the ECB's austerity demands.





I try to stay out of you and KTV's tats but seriously, you highlighting a part of a sentence but omitting the end of it that just makes you look a complete fool and proves KTV right. What did you do, control F and search for a word but not read the sentence? The sentence when read in full shows that KTV was saying that it was not an EU in/out but anti austerity referendum.


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Betsy2009
post 11th Jul 2015, 07:13am
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Any chance of agreeing to differ and moving on?
Call a truce perhaps?
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JAGZ1876
post 11th Jul 2015, 07:19am
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QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 11th Jul 2015, 08:21am) *
Any chance of agreeing to differ and moving on?
Call a truce perhaps?



I wouldn't hold my breath Betsy, there's more chance of ISIS calling a truce. laugh.gif
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Kemedian
post 11th Jul 2015, 10:08am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 01:43am) *
I try to stay out of you and KTV's tats but seriously, you highlighting a part of a sentence but omitting the end of it that just makes you look a complete fool and proves KTV right. The sentence when read in full shows that KTV was saying that it was not an EU in/out but anti austerity referendum.

I didn't omit the end of it.

The Greek No vote could be construed as a vote to leave, if it wasn't for the results of separate polls indicating their desire to stay. They may not like the current economic ramifications of remaining part of the Union, however they seem smart enough to know that these are outweighed by the stability currently on offer and the potential longer-term benefits.

"A complete fool", you say? If you're right, then your justification would also make a complete fool out of you, following our earlier exchange on the other thread...

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 6th Jul 2015, 12:43pm) *
Take Greece now, for example. Its people are saying Yes to EU membership, but No to the current offer of financial assistance from the ECB.
QUOTE (john.mcn @ 6th Jul 2015, 01:34pm) *
The Greek referendum was about EU membership ???

Here was me thinking it was about the austerity program offered by the ECB and the IMF.
QUOTE (Kemedian @ 6th Jul 2015, 01:53pm) *
In separate polls the Greeks express a desire to stay in the EU.


All this Greek weather sure is heating up the debate. I think I'd better find some shade under a bridge. cool.gif


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john.mcn
post 11th Jul 2015, 10:43am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 11th Jul 2015, 10:16am) *
I didn't omit the end of it.

You omitted it by not highlighting the last part to misconstrue what was actually written in the sentence.
QUOTE
The Greek No vote could be construed as a vote to leave, if it wasn't for the results of separate polls indicating their desire to stay. They may not like the current economic ramifications of remaining part of the Union, however they seem smart enough to know that these are outweighed by the stability currently on offer and the potential longer-term benefits.

Polls are not worth the paper they are written on, the vote was not about staying or leaving the EU just as it wasn't about which ice cream people preferred
QUOTE
"A complete fool", you say? If you're right, then your justification would also make a complete fool out of you, following our earlier exchange on the other thread...


It's best to stop digging when you find yourself in a hole. your quotes just show it's yourself thats the fool. The referendum was not about whether the Greeks wanted to stay or leave the European Union, a poll is not a referendum as they show one thing only, the answers to the the people who took the poll
QUOTE
All this Greek weather sure is heating up the debate. I think I'd better find some shade under a bridge. cool.gif

Try the one over troubled waters, are your argument certainly seems to be in trouble.


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Kemedian
post 11th Jul 2015, 11:05am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 11:51am) *
You omitted it by not highlighting the last part

Not the same.

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 11:51am) *
the vote was not about staying or leaving the EU

Did not say it was, as (apparently) neither did ktv.

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 11:51am) *
your quotes just show it's yourself thats the fool

Not so. If I live under a bridge, then you live in a glass house.

QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 11:51am) *
your argument certainly seems to be in trouble

Not from yours. laugh.gif


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john.mcn
post 11th Jul 2015, 11:24am
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I'll leave you are your bridge to yourself then, i'll just add that the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.


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Kemedian
post 11th Jul 2015, 11:32am
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This debate has moved on to the EU and its economic recovery policy being one of austerity.

I have absolutely no problem taking part, John. It's just that ktv would rather I didn't.


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Kemedian
post 11th Jul 2015, 12:23pm
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QUOTE (George Kerevan SNP MP @ 9th May, 2015)
Scotland voted SNP as a reaction to being told, after voting No in September, that it should be seen but not heard. This patronising attitude was crystalised in Ed Miliband’s refusal to countenance any working agreement with the SNP, as fellow progressive parties, to lock the Tories out of Downing Street. All Miliband succeeded in doing was boosting SNP support among No-voters, guaranteeing Thursday’s landslide...

The general election was not a mandate for a second referendum – a point reiterated time after time by Nicola Sturgeon, whatever contrary hares are set running by the battered and bruised Westminster establishment. Nevertheless, the SNP’s electoral success is undoubtedly a mandate for going far beyond the hastily conceived ragbag of new powers contained in the Smith Commission documents...

Put another way, May 7 will go down in the constitutional history books as the moment that the UK was launched on an irrevocable trajectory towards federalism – or bust. If the Westminster system fumbles that move to a federal union of equal British nations, Scotland can legitimately claim it has no recourse but to seek a second referendum...

The anti-austerity project that the SNP campaigned for in the May 7 election is inherently popular with both the working class and the professional middle class – everyone has stories about not getting adequate care for aged parents and everyone is going to get old. The welfare state is crumbling because of austerity. Most folk in their heart of hearts realise we get what we pay for.



Interesting passages from an article that's right up your street, John, parts of which we have debated on the other thread.

I agree with the first passage. The last passage is relevant to this debate, because it mentions what the SNP refers to as its mandate to reject the UK's current politics of austerity.

My point to ktv, which he does not accept, was:

UK austerity bad, EU austerity good?


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carmella
post 11th Jul 2015, 12:46pm
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ktv

My question to you was rhetorical, as I did not 'ask' you anything. I have been around Boards such as this for many many years, I know what a 'troll' is, and they are very nasty.

Furthermore, if he was a troll, he would have been gone long before now.

I disagree with you, and I probably always will, I don't think I have seen any merit in your posts to suggest to me, that you have put forward a good argument for anything.

But, you are entitled as we all are to your opinions, which we may agree with sometimes, or we may not agree with - go on and express yourself, we are lucky to be living in a country where this can happen.

As we know, people change their opinions on many subjects over time, and when more thought is applied, I know I have. But that is our perogative.

I cannot prove any more than you can, from what has been written or implied, that Kemedian is a troll. However, I do know that I have dealt with many of them over the years, and I sussed them out very quickly, and very quickly got rid of them once they were identified.

Here endeth the discussion from my perspective.


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ktv
post 13th Jul 2015, 07:41am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 11th Jul 2015, 01:43am) *
I try to stay out of you and KTV's tats but seriously, you highlighting a part of a sentence but omitting the end of it that just makes you look a complete fool and proves KTV right. What did you do, control F and search for a word but not read the sentence? The sentence when read in full shows that KTV was saying that it was not an EU in/out but anti austerity referendum.


its the fine art of.....dum dum dummmmmmm TROLLING
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Kemedian
post 13th Jul 2015, 08:21am
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QUOTE (ktv @ 13th Jul 2015, 08:49am) *
its the fine art of.....dum dum dummmmmmm TROLLING

I don't see anyone coming to YOUR defense over this issue that you have with my views, ktv.

YOU are an online bully. You call me a troll in nearly every reply, but you won't silence me. That's the role of the moderator, which you seem to think you are.

I draw your attention to the following and ask for the respect that every member deserves:

QUOTE
GG Board: Board Rules

General Posting Rules and Advice

Here's some general points of advice to consider when posting on all boards:

  • Do not make insulting or inflammatory statements to other members of the GG boards. Be respectful of others ideas.


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ktv
post 13th Jul 2015, 08:28am
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makes no difference to me that some one is defending a troll mate.

im not trying to silence you

im not trying to bully you

im also not insulting you or using inflammatory statements.

saying your a troll is a factual statement (ive repeatedly gave you the definition you asked for)...

the victim card wont work as long as you keep trolling.

now about that topic of the uk in/out referendum......
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