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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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ktv
post 11th Aug 2015, 01:44pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 10th Aug 2015, 08:34pm) *
You underestimate the amount of people pee'd off with the EU.


and all the anti eu rhetoric in the right wing press, coming from the tory party is stirring that up yet some people still believe they want a yes vote.


the two faced tories are saying they want a yes vote while manipulating the media into getting a no vote......even the blind can see that.

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john.mcn
post 11th Aug 2015, 08:04pm
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What the political parties say or support does not really mean anything to the man/woman on the street. When it comes to the EU and where people think it's heading ( a superstate) every conversation i hear around it results in people wanting out.


--------------------
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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Betsy2009
post 11th Aug 2015, 08:15pm
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Many business people seem to want to stay in the EU because of the trading opportunities. The Tories listen to business, not the man in the street. If they are going to put it to the vote then they must know that they've already one.
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Kemedian
post 11th Aug 2015, 09:21pm
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QUOTE (ktv @ 11th Aug 2015, 02:48pm) *
At no time have I said id be voting yes or no.

QUOTE (ktv @ 14th Jul 2015, 01:51pm) *
I personally think we should remain part of the eu but remain outside of its economic control.

Reads like the mind of a Yes voter to me?

I am a committed Yes voter. I don't see how you can say I have defeated my own argument, when all I'm doing is trying to open up the debate.

This huge debate and the historic vote at the end of it poses some hard questions for us all, and being a true democrat I welcome it. You may well argue that it's a load of nonsense, nonetheless I would say that your participation signifies otherwise. There are many voices to be heard and this referendum, like any other, will cause division wherever it is debated.

Hell. You and I are supposedly on the same side! biggrin.gif
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ktv
post 11th Aug 2015, 10:09pm
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QUOTE
I personally think we should remain part of the eu but remain outside of its economic control.



the eu is good for some things but not for others. being part of the wider community is all very well and some of their laws are essential for our daily lives, min wage, WTD, H&S etc.(which your mates in the tory party will probably scrap if we leave or change if we stay due to them getting "concessions") but if their insisting on total privatisation and things like TTIP to be a member of that community then its just tory policy on a grander scale so my vote goes to "it doesn't really matter"
ie its p o I n t l e s s deflectionary politics

your argument that all the parties want a yes vote is what your own posts are undermining as their rhetoric clearly shows otherwise.

I am not and never have been a democrat
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*Tally Rand*
post 18th Aug 2015, 10:15pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 6th Aug 2015, 10:59pm) *
If the UK did leave the EEA, which I concede won't be on the ballot, then the UKIP - if the voting system let it - could block the Channel and in so doing seal the fate of the UK economy.

It's the perception of the situation at the border and its economic impact that I am suggesting could artificially boost support for NO, amongst voters who don't bother to find out the facts, unless the two governments can somehow regain control and give the Yes campaign an opportunity to point out the light at the end of the Tunnel (as opposed to the infrared silhouette at the back of the lorry).

It is my certain conclusion that you have been studying the art of obfuscation with an intensity only encountered by those with a notion to enter the hallowed halls of Britannia's Westminster.
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Kemedian
post 19th Aug 2015, 01:33pm
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What's clear to many folk, Tally Rand, is that the EU has a problem with illegal immigration.

www.euronews.com/calais-migrant... yes.gif

What's not clear is how voting in the referendum will change the situation here in the UK.

From this discussion so far, it seems that other current European laws will still force the UK to accommodate its fair share of the continent's increasing number of illegal immigrants.

My point is will that matter to some voters, who perhaps see this as a deciding issue?

I would argue that, given the scale of the crisis and its impact here in the UK, both the Yes and No campaigns will have to take a position on the issue. The Yes campaign may attempt to demonstrate that the French and UK governments are belatedly improving their joint management of the situation at Calais, while the No campaign may promise further change to come to those immigration laws that the UK presently obeys if we vote to leave, therefore making it a possible issue in the referendum.
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Kemedian
post 25th Aug 2015, 10:00pm
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It's not just the UK seeking significant change in EU immigration policy.

Here's an alternative vision, courtesy of...
QUOTE
Germany stands ready to do its utmost to drive forward the common project of a refugee policy based on the principle of solidarity.

The political framework for action has long since ceased to be national – particularly with regard to refugee and migration policy. Only together and only at the European level will we be able at all to find rational solutions. This is why refugee and migration policy is currently the most important policy field in which we must further the project of European integration with dynamism and conviction.

Europe cannot put this off any longer and the EU must act now.

Ten points must urgently be addressed in this regard:
  1. Humane conditions must prevail throughout the EU when refugees are received.
  2. A common European code of asylum must guarantee asylum status that is valid throughout the EU for refugees in need of protection.
  3. We need a fair distribution of refugees in Europe.
  4. Europe needs a common approach to managing its borders, which cannot be merely restricted to securing our frontiers.
  5. We must provide immediate assistance to the EU countries that are currently under particular strain.
  6. We cannot stand idly by and watch people risk their lives trying to get to us.
  7. We must make readmission a key priority of our relations with the countries of origin and also be prepared to make technical and financial support for these counties contingent on constructive cooperation.
  8. We must come to an EU-wide understanding as to which nations we consider to be safe countries of origin.
  9. Germany needs an immigration Act.
  10. A comprehensive European asylum, refugee and migration policy also requires new political initiatives to fight the causes of flight in the countries of the Middle East and Africa.
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*Billy Boil*
post 27th Aug 2015, 08:41am
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I spent some time in my youth unloading "butter Ships" from Australia and New Zealand at the Renfrew docks. I remember it for the cold store paid the highest bonus for moving butter. I remember at the time ( mid 1960s) when butter from N.Z. was as cheap, if not cheaper than margarine. Around that time I started travelling around Europe, France mostly, and was quite taken by the difference in price for alcohol and tobacco. My father always bemoaned the fact that entry to the E.U. would mean cutting U.K. out of the markets in the Commonwealth. I reached Australia in the early 70s and was surprised at the cost of food alcohol and tobacco, being then for the last two about 1/4 of the price in the U.K. ( $2 for a side of lamb cut up and ready to go). Food is still relatively cheap but owing to overseas demand for all our produce prices are again rising rapidly. The point of all this is that when U.K. abandoned the Commonwealth in favour of Europe every one was predicting the demise of the traditional suppliers of the U.K. markets. It did not happen and from the 70s onwards Australia N.Z. Canada etc. experienced unprecedented growth and prosperity. What my point is, what did the U.K.

Scotland in particular gain from entry to the E.U. and is there further reason for them to stay in what has become a financial drain ( in terms of Greece and other countries unpayable debts.) What is fast becoming a " migrant " nightmare and with rumblings of insecurity of financial institutions in some of the E.U.'s largest economies.
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Kemedian
post 1st Sep 2015, 06:37pm
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The Electoral Commission is recommending that the referendum question be changed, to make it more fair.

It has realised that asking the electorate if it agrees with a statement is bound to hand an immediate advantage to the Yes campaign.

Instead of 'Yes/ No', the UK Parliament will now vote on the recommendation to change the options to 'Remain/ Leave'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics

I think this a fairer question that will make for a fairer contest, but it won't alter the result. biggrin.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 1st Sep 2015, 07:08pm
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How come we don't have the usual suspects who constantly bombarded the independence referendum thread with non stop doom and gloom posts of how the referendum was causing uncertainty and companies were unwilling to invest and the country was on hold etc, etc, etc, posting now? unsure.gif
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ktv
post 2nd Sep 2015, 07:29am
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so now theyre changing the question.

is this because a "yes" vote was getting 58%?.......not close enough for some it would seem to lets just change it to "stay" which would get 51% (according to the polls)

who all still believing the gov want us to remain in the EU?

kem is....right who else?
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Kemedian
post 2nd Sep 2015, 07:40pm
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www.itv.com/news/uk-must-help... or-risk-damage

One for the 'No/Leave' camp. sad.gif




QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Sep 2015, 08:16pm) *
How come we don't have the usual suspects who constantly bombarded the (Scottish) independence referendum thread with non stop doom and gloom posts of how the referendum was causing uncertainty and companies were unwilling to invest and the country was on hold etc, etc, etc, posting now? unsure.gif

Isn't that the SNP position now?
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JAGZ1876
post 2nd Sep 2015, 10:16pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 2nd Sep 2015, 08:48pm) *
www.itv.com/news/uk-must-help... or-risk-damage


Isn't that the SNP position now?


No, it isn't.
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Kemedian
post 3rd Sep 2015, 05:41pm
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland

Another one for the 'No/Leave' camp. sad.gif





QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 2nd Sep 2015, 11:24pm) *
No, it isn't.

Post #1 reveals the SNP opposition to the EU Ref, and the Party wouldn't have taken this position if it believed that the Ref was good for Scotland. Don't you agree?
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