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> Scottish Independence, About voting yes/no
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JAGZ1876
post 25th Feb 2013, 09:33pm
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Breaking news from yesterdays Scotland on Sunday..........

Independent Scotland Faces Nuclear Arms Ban ohmy.gif

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday...s-ban-1-2807469


I had to keep checking the date to make sure it wasn't April 1st laugh.gif






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john.mcn
post 25th Feb 2013, 09:41pm
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Or that it wasn't 2003, seriously hasn't the NPT been pointed out many times?


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JAGZ1876
post 26th Feb 2013, 07:36am
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Whatever next..........

"An Independent Scotland Won't Be Allowed To Show Repeats Of The 1966 World Cup Final". laugh.gif
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wee davy
post 26th Feb 2013, 08:11am
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Perish the thought, jagz! Were hivin loads right now because Bobby Moore hiz bin deid 20 years!
He wiz good - bit no THAT good.
I saw him play an absolute howler for West Ham 'back in the day'. He didnae know where the ba; wiz!


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farrochie
post 26th Feb 2013, 08:55am
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Reading the Better Together stuff:

Some of the things I've heard include:

http://bettertogether.net/press/entry/jp-macintosh-lecture

One of the most scaremongering statements I've seen is "your friends in Wales, your family in England and your workmates from Northern Ireland will, effectively and overnight, become foreigners". What a foolish statement in a modern world; with family, friends and work colleagues from all over the world, I would hesitate before using the word "foreigner" about anyone. Something 20th century about it cool.gif .

We also have this: "Why on earth would we want to erect a brand new border, not just within Europe, but within this island?" What neutralises this argument is that the land border between Ireland and Northern Ireland has been completely open for many years. No border posts, no passports needed.

Darling says about Westminster rule: "if you don’t like the Government you can kick them out". But what if we don't want the sequence of Labour/Tory/Labour/Tory....that we get at Westminster; the Tories have virtually no mandate from Scotland. What if we could have a new politics at Holyrood? The referendum gives us this opportunity.

As to the EU and other institutions. For 40 years, Scotland has had the legislation and institutions that meet EU standards; we already implement directives on devolved matters; the EC has had an office in Scotland since 1975. We can manage accession to all the necessary treaties in a modern and respectful manner. Who would deny us that right?

I think Better Together's true, but unstated, message is that Westminster is better at making decisions for Scotland. History tells us that this is not true, whether it is the devastating effects of the Thatcherites on our industry, the taking of our oil revenues, Trident, the Iraq war, the continued massive military spending...None of this has been to the benefit of society in Scotland.

I hope that people will really examine the statements of each side as we progress towards the referendum. It will be a historical decision for Scotland!
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JAGZ1876
post 26th Feb 2013, 09:00am
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wee davy, Like many an English international (an still true today) he was elevated to a higher status than his skill could match, a very good player but not an all time great.

I saw him play several times for England, did you know he walked like a woman and wore a bra? tongue.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 1st Mar 2013, 01:55pm
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Hot on the heel's of Lord Malloch-Brown's revelation that "Scotland would be welcomed into the EU", then the loss of the UK's Triple A rating, another thread of the Tory led Better Together fabric of scare story's unravels.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/pol...lition.20374657

Vote YES next year for the most important decision in Scotland's History. thumbup.gif

Vote NO next year.............SCOTLAND'S HISTORY angry.gif
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bilbo.s
post 1st Mar 2013, 02:16pm
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The English Broadcasting Corporation has decided to try subtlety in its "NO" campaign. Here they are implying that Scots would all have to pay 65% income tax.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21593225


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JAGZ1876
post 1st Mar 2013, 03:05pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 1st Mar 2013, 02:33pm) *
The English Broadcasting Corporation has decided to try subtlety in its "NO" campaign. Here they are implying that Scots would all have to pay 65% income tax.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21593225


You've hit the nail on the head Bill when you use the word "implying", as there is nothing in that story to suggest that taxation would be anywhere near 65% in an independent Scotland.

Mr Buchanan and his BEEB cronies are in a class of their own when it comes to talking Scotland down.
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bilbo.s
post 1st Mar 2013, 03:12pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Mar 2013, 04:22pm) *
You've hit the nail on the head Bill when you use the word "implying", as there is nothing in that story to suggest that taxation would be anywhere near 65% in an independent Scotland.

Mr Buchanan and his BEEB cronies are in a class of their own when it comes to talking Scotland down.



Income tax in Denmark is nothing like that for an average earner. The couple interviewed were a doctor and a lawyer!


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odeonclubboy
post 1st Mar 2013, 07:14pm
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QUOTE (wee davy @ 26th Feb 2013, 08:28am) *
Perish the thought, jagz! Were hivin loads right now because Bobby Moore hiz bin deid 20 years!
He wiz good - bit no THAT good.
I saw him play an absolute howler for West Ham 'back in the day'. He didnae know where the ba; wiz!

Now please dont get me wrong.....I am Scottish....very Scottish but i'm afraid that i have here to stand up and defend an Englishman......I am old enough to have seen Bobby Moore play many times and he truly was a "Great" Not just my opinion ask Pele no less
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odeonclubboy
post 1st Mar 2013, 07:18pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 1st Mar 2013, 03:29pm) *
Income tax in Denmark is nothing like that for an average earner. The couple interviewed were a doctor and a lawyer!

Tax??? Whos payin tax? Has Mr Salmon no twigged yet? Wur aw goin oan the "Burroo" and free malt and white lightning fur aw
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john.mcn
post 2nd Mar 2013, 08:43pm
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I gotta admit i did LOL wink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=9xkJbIsaY2E


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farrochie
post 8th Mar 2013, 09:47am
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The latest "scare" splashed across every paper yesterday was that the Scottish Government has been assessing finances in an independent Scotland, and the choices that Scotland will have to make.

In the normal world (in business too), a position paper like this would be seen as an essential and prudent preparation. Such a paper would likely be updated frequently as new situations arise and new options emerge. Government Ministers are required to keep business confidential, unless they decide to issue a publication.

The accusation was levelled at the SNP that this paper was somehow "secret". Well, actually this is a requirement of the Ministerial Code: "2.26 Ministers have a personal responsibility to safeguard the integrity and confidentiality of Government business."

I do wonder if the other parties in Scotland (particularly the main opposition parties) are preparing themselves for the eventuality of a YES vote in the referendum. Are they preparing position papers? Are they leaving it until a decision is made? How would they manage Scotland's finances if they were suddenly propelled into government?

This also draws attention to the difference between the SNP as the "government". It is bound by "collective responsibility". That is, every Minister must agree with a policy, or they should resign. (According to Donal Dewar, shadow cabinet's are also bound by collective responsibility).

The SNP as a "party" will no doubt have its own strategies for leadership, development of manifesto, etc, as will other parties.

What has been called the "SNP's independence referendum" is really no such thing now. You could argue that the SNP developed the policy. But does the SNP have any power to stop the referendum? Answer, No. Why? Because it has been agreed by the Scottish Parliament, backed up by the Scotland-UK Edinburgh Agreement, and about to be legislated in Holyrood. This is now, on behalf of the people of Scotland, the Scottish Parliament's Referendum, not the Government's, nor the parties'.



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JAGZ1876
post 8th Mar 2013, 11:06am
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QUOTE (farrochie @ 8th Mar 2013, 10:04am) *
The accusation was levelled at the SNP that this paper was somehow "secret". Well, actually this is a requirement of the Ministerial Code: "2.26 Ministers have a personal responsibility to safeguard the integrity and confidentiality of Government business."

I do wonder if the other parties in Scotland (particularly the main opposition parties) are preparing themselves for the eventuality of a YES vote in the referendum. Are they preparing position papers? Are they leaving it until a decision is made? How would they manage Scotland's finances if they were suddenly propelled into government?


You are perfectly correct farrochie, this is a ministerial code requirement, however the unionist MSM would never allow the general public to have this information, we really shouldn't be surprised that they don't want to have a fair and balanced debate, the misinformation and scare story's being released by the Tory led No Better Together campaign and being repeated unchallenged by MSM especially the BBC would make Goebbels blush.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels.

It was no coincidence that this fable was manufactured to coincide with the release of the GERS figures which showed Scotland's economy is in far better health than the rest of the UK.

Is it just another coincidence that these Anti Scottish government tales appear on a Wednesday just in time to give the unionist party leaders some ammunition to attack Alex Salmond at FM questions on a Thursday?

Well it's not working, watching yesterdays proceedings of Lamont, Davidson and Rennie in attack mode was akin to watching three lambs trying to bring down a fully grown lion laugh.gif

Of course the don't have post referendum plans for a YES vote, just like the MOD have no plans to remove Trident from the Clyde, their London bosses won't let them make any.
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