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> Teachers Told: Don't Stop School Bullies, Ban on staff intervening in playground fights
GG
post 23rd Jan 2010, 11:30am
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A teacher's union is to write to all its members to advise them not to get involved in fights between pupils, even on school premises. The move comes after Glasgow City Council refused to reimburse a 58-year-old woman teacher who had spent 2,500 on dental treatement after being punched in the face trying to stop two pupils fighting.

The Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association now intends contacting all of its 8,500 members across Scotland to warn them not to intervene in playground fights. The union believes that the council's decision will have huge consequences for discipline in schools across the city, where teachers are already under intense pressure as a result of declining morale and respect for their authority.

The teacher concerned has so far refused to comment on the issue due to the terms of her employment, but a family friend said she had been through "a difficult ordeal".

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Ann Ballinger, general secretary of the union, said:
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"Our original advice was for [the teacher was] to go through the normal procedure with the council. We were stunned when the response was to say it was not the council's responsibility. They said they hadn't been negligent. Our member never claimed the council had been negligent, we never said that."

A spokeswoman for Glasgow City Council responded:
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"All claims are judged on their individual merits. Advice is given to staff to consider their own safety and not put themselves at risk or any danger in a particular situation."

A Scottish Conservatives' schools spokeswoman commented:
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"It will give no comfort to teachers and head teachers who, quite rightly, believe it is their professional duty to act firmly and fairly when it comes to addressing indiscipline. Parents will be alarmed by the fact that teachers might feel reluctant to intervene when a fight breaks out. We need radical measures to improve discipline in our schools, not pander to those who seek to cause trouble."

GG.


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TeeHeeHee
post 23rd Jan 2010, 11:48am
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Although I agree that teachers should be able to enforce some form of disciplinary action in schools, having seen on the news today that two young brothers were given custodial sentences of 5 years for almost killing two other boys by brutally torturing them for sheer enjoyment, I was left to wonder if indeed it is wise for teachers to get involved at all since it seems that these two young brothers often assaulted teachers. In cases like these a teacher might have to get heavy handed to instil respect or discipline and that would naturally lead to suspension and worse.
Caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea, it seems.


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Heather
post 23rd Jan 2010, 12:39pm
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On hearing this story, the first thing I thought was just how much Dental Treatment the Teacher needed that it cost 2500. I wondered if she was taking advantage of the attack to get herself a new set of teeth thinking the Council would pay for them.

If the Council are her Employers, then they are responsible for any genuine injury to teachers on school grounds.

Discipline in schools is bad enough, but if the teacher's don't stop fights in the schoool yard the school bullies will have a field day. The more timid pupil will stay away as they will be too scared to go to school because the bullies are running the show.

I don't blame the teacher's, but how long will it be before we hear of tragic events in our school's similar to what we hear about school's in America.

If any teacher is badly injured, then we can expect teacher's to think strike action for their own and their pupil's safety.

Glasgow Councillors are a law unto themselves.


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klingon
post 23rd Jan 2010, 02:59pm
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QUOTE (Heather @ 23rd Jan 2010, 12:37pm) *
On hearing this story, the first thing I thought was just how much Dental Treatment the Teacher needed that it cost 2500. I wondered if she was taking advantage of the attack to get herself a new set of teeth thinking the Council would pay for them.

2500 is nothing nowadays for dental treatment and as the teacher is in a full time job,she gets no help with dental charges.My wife recently had 4 teeth replaced with a dental bridge-not a huge job and again no help with charges-cost?-3500!-and my missus is not even a teacher-just a Care Worker-if the thug who damaged this poor wummans teeth can't pay for the treatment then the school certainly should-it's a work related injury-otherwise what do we do?-let them battle in the school like in the USA?-gunfights in the playground?or God help us Police officers based in the SCHOOL?


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*Guest*
post 23rd Jan 2010, 03:23pm
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Unfortunately police officers are already required to be resident in a number of Glasgow schools because of the violence and disorder therein.
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Jupiter
post 23rd Jan 2010, 04:46pm
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I would suggest two pupils fighting in the playground is a standup fight,disorderly conduct and now that teachers will not be involved the police should be summoned and Breach of the Peace charges considered.I cannot see any other resolution to this and I certainly would not blame teachers from standing back.No one wishes to see young people getting involved with the police but I cannot see any other course.
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Catarina
post 23rd Jan 2010, 04:59pm
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Turn the water hose on them. Invite their parents to the schoolyard and do the same to them.
Okay...I hear ya....Don't treat violence with violence. Are the present rules working??

Of course I am being facetious, but you get the gist of my suggestion.
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Alex MacPhee
post 23rd Jan 2010, 08:49pm
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QUOTE (Heather @ 23rd Jan 2010, 12:37pm) *
On hearing this story, the first thing I thought was just how much Dental Treatment the Teacher needed that it cost 2500. I wondered if she was taking advantage of the attack to get herself a new set of teeth thinking the Council would pay for them.

I don't believe that for a moment.

My dentist gave up NHS treatment and all patients were moved to private treatment schemes. I recently had a routine checkup, and all she did, because she was taking me over from another dentist at the practice (I can now only make Wednesdays and my regular dentists doesn't work on Wednesdays), was count my teeth and list my fillings to her assistant. It took precisely four minutes (I checked), and it cost me 53. That's more than my solicitor charges, and she's 160/hr. I'd a small filling on the next visit, so small it didn't need an anaesthetic, and that was 143. A root canal treatment is around 500.

Dentistry is very expensive, especially cosmetic dentistry, and if, as it seems, she was hit in the face, then I'm not in the least bit surprised that she's had to have dentistry amounting to that sum.


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boots
post 24th Jan 2010, 09:30am
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I agree with Jupiter police should be called in and if warranted, charges should be laid.The bullies should not be allowed to think they can rule the school.
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sumac
post 24th Jan 2010, 02:31pm
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Teachers have been advised for years now not to get involved when children fight. Indeed, quite a few years ago now, in a school where I was teaching at the time two young lads went for each other in the playground after school (I'm talking about Primary school and Primary 7 boys). When the janitor waded in and separated them, he pushed the boys away from each other. in so doing, he was hurt as they tried to grab each other again. However, the fight was broken up and the crowd dispersed.

That same evening, two policemen arrived at the school to warn the janitor that he could face assault charges for physically restraining the boys, as their parents had phoned them to lodge a complaint. After a very uncertain week, the police told the janny there would be no charges brought BUT he had not to intervene again in any fights. The children were just to get on with it till the police came.

As far as I'm aware, that rule still stands - in primary at any rate. I'm not sure about secondary.

I know - the law is again shown to be an ass, but that's the way things are going nowadays. The baddies have more human rights than the law-abiding citizens of Britain. sad.gif


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*Scottish Tory*
post 26th Jan 2010, 08:20am
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Interesting article, especially in light of events in Doncaster this week when a court witnessed the depravity children are capable of if there is not effective action taken early to change their behaviour.

I have yet to meet any teacher who does not have the common sense to know when or how to intervene when a fight breaks out in the playground. And the vast majority would take this responsibility seriously if only these wasteful, interfering busy bodies would leave them alone to get on with their job. But this is not the real issue.

The real issue is we have an 800,000 strong army of pointless buraucrats who have created a multi-billion dollar industry of cushy highly paid jobs for themselves and who will continue to interfere with everything we do until someone tells them enough is enough and forces them to go out and get a proper job and do something useful. But that will not happen all the time Gordon Brown remains in charge as he cares not a damm for the fact that these poeple have brought the country to the verge of bankrutcy and made teachers life a misery provided they are dependent on him and thus compelled to vote for him.
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GG
post 27th Jan 2010, 09:14pm
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News today that – despite modest improvements in other areas – there has been a very worrying surge in violence involving the use of weapons in schools. According to latest figures covering Scotland, 404 pupils were excluded for physical assault with a weapon during 2008-09, a 10 per cent increase on the previous year.

Tory education spokeswoman Liz Smith said:
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"It is totally unacceptable that the cases of physical assault, against both fellow pupils and staff, are on the increase. This is because head teachers do not feel they have sufficient powers to exclude these persistent troublemakers for a longer period of time or, in some cases, on a permanent basis. We need radical measures to improve discipline in our schools, not pander to those who seek to cause trouble."

Labour schools' spokesman Ken Macintosh commented:
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"It is deeply worrying that, at the serious end of the scale, the number of physical assaults with a weapon on teachers and on pupils is up yet again. But discipline begins in the home and we need to work with all involved - pupils, teachers, the wider community and, most importantly, parents - if we are to make real progress."

Scottish government minister Keith Brown responded:
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"Schools across Scotland work hard to prevent situations escalating to the stage where pupil exclusion from school becomes a necessary step. These figures show the many approaches schools and local authorities have in place are having a real impact. However, we must not be complacent.While exclusions due to serious issues such as violence or substance misuse are rare, we need to continue to promote positive behaviour in our schools."

GG.


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TeeHeeHee
post 27th Jan 2010, 10:52pm
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Referring to Scottish Government Minister Keith Brown's quote above I'd like to know which positive behaviour promotions he feels a need to continue and to ask him if he means those which have produced an increase to 4,444 instances at the end of 2009?


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Wendy123
post 1st Feb 2010, 07:59pm
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TEACHER ASSAULTS PUPIL screams the headline. The pupil is backed by their parent/s wanting 'com-pen-say-shun' and the teacher prosecuted.

However when a pupil assualts a teacher, does it make the headlines?

Children can't be touched, physically moved, shouted at whilst at school.

Schools have 'pupil' or 'student' councils, where they are consulted about matters relating to the running of the school.

Can imagine how my primary school headmaster would have reacted if was told to consult us. He was in charge. Repeat. He was in charge.

Who is going to empower the teachers? Certainly not politicians.
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Macbeast
post 6th Feb 2010, 08:53am
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Lest we forget ....

Philip Lawrence was fatally stabbed at his London school in 1995 by Learco Chindamo, then aged 15. He stabbed Mr Lawrence at the gates of his west London school when the headmaster was trying to protect another pupil.
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