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> Did You Get The Belt At School?, How many, what for and did it work?
brian432
post 15th Dec 2008, 07:43am
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There is no excuse for Corporal Punishment in ANY school. It's Child abuse and any teacher who still uses it should be ashamed of themselves. Why not bring back the birch and make a proper job of educating the kids. mad.gif mad.gif


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pumps100
post 15th Dec 2008, 09:03am
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This is an interesting thread.

I remember two memorable instances:-

- during the first week at Kings Park Secondary (after coming up from Primary) Mr May the PE teacher belted the whole class in a line for forgetting their PE kit. The issue was nobody had explained what kit pupils were expected to bring so nobody knew what was required. Mr May (who was ex-Army) was just setting an example albeit an unfair one.

- during a maths exam in 3rd year the adjudicator (Mrs Flint) spotted a few helpful formulae written on my hands. I got marked down by 30% and then faced the wrath of Mr Crawford - head of Maths- and got six of his very best. He was really into it and could have got a job as a fast bowler or with the US forces in Abu Graib as he relished. It was very very sore.

I don't think it is right to beat children - even if they are your own - and especially more so to beat someone else's kids!

For those people who fondly reflect on the good old days via their rose tinted specs re corporal punishment, they should ask themselves this question - "How do you feel about another adult inflicting pain by beating on your children (or grandchildren)?"

Regards

Ian
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bilbo.s
post 15th Dec 2008, 10:40am
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At the age of 8 at Shettleston Public School I got the strap for being late one morning because I had seen my wee sister(5) safely across the road to the wee school. My father went ballistic when he heard and went down to the school and tore a strip off the bully. I don't remember my father ever behaving threateningly to a stranger on any other occasion.

Later on at Glasgow High, I was strapped by the Rector( a horrible little man called David Lees) for spelling Britannia as Brittania in Latin class.

Mind you, some of the hard men (heidbangers) had a contest to see who could get the most strokes in a term. Mucho macho, mucho loco!

My auntie was an infant mistress but I don't believe she ever used the tawse, as it was kept in a drawer at home and we used to play with it.


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Paul Kelly
post 15th Dec 2008, 10:50am
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Having spent the last 13 years in a country which permits corporal punishment in schools, it seems I am out of touch with others.

You could argue that all forms of student punishment are forms of abuse if you want to go down that road.
Also, you could argue that smacking your own child is a form of abuse and should be banned.

One of the main differences I noticed between teaching in Glasgow and teaching in Botswana is that in Glasgow teachers, including myself, were regularly yelling at students at the tops of their voices. Sometimes it would be genuine anger, other times it would be mock anger. The teachers with the most disciplined students were usually the ones who were the most menacing (verbally). I remember being told by a senior colleague at a school in Glasgow that you should never smile at the students as they will see it as a sign of weakness. Also, parents were regularly coming to the school to complain about teachers verbally abusing students.
"You cannae talk tae ma wee Johnnie like that.''

I rarely raise my voice when teaching in Botswana and I usually teach with a smile. My students soon learn what I expect of them (behaviour wise) and it is important to be consistent and fair. If I punish a child (whether it be using corporal punishment or otherwiswe) I know I am not going to be confronted by an irate parent. Parents here encourage you to be firm with their kids. There are strict rules and regulations on how corporal punishment can be administered in schools and rightly so. I have never abused a student in my teaching career.

One of the main things I have learned as a teacher is:

Without effective discipline there can be no effective teaching and learning.


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penny dainty
post 15th Dec 2008, 10:55am
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Pumps , I remember the two teachers Crawford and May well, they were renowned for their belting skills, my brother could testify to that laugh.gif


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Angela Chick
post 15th Dec 2008, 04:09pm
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I only ever got the belt once...it was at my primary school......so that tells you i was under the age of 11.

I was swinging on a door at playtime and the headmaster seen me from his office....he shouted out the window to me...off i went to his office(terrified) i always remember that he was standing with a cup of tea in his hand when i walked in.....his words to me were...."Angela this is going to hurt me more than it will ever hurt you" when i think back i was not a trouble maker at school...trust me to swing on a door and get caught by the headmaster.

Now im an adult i know it was wrong to belt pupils.


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gardenqueen
post 15th Dec 2008, 04:11pm
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This is a subject which is very close to my heart.

I got the belt when I was in the infant class for wetting myself because I was too scared to ask the dragon of a teacher if I could leave the room to go to the toilet. I was such a timid little thing and that only made things worse.

Still in the infants, so aged around six and a half, the teacher (I won't name and shame although I feel like doing so to be honest and would one day like to meet up with her to ask if she has a conscience) went round the class with a prayer for us to learn off by heart. Each time, if you had not learned it, you went out the front and got the belt then were sent back to your seat to learn it again and say it when it was your turn again (there might have been 40 pupils in the class but your turn soon came round as few were able to learn under such fear). Nine times I got the belt that morning. The thing is, you were so ashamed, it was so alien to you to be considered "bad", that you did not tell your parents. I don't know what they would have said, people put up with such cr_p in those days.

This went on, through primary school. Morning spelling tests, morning mental arithmetic tests. Get one wrong and you got one belt, God help you if you were not able to learn, some children were forever getting it.

This did not help develop one's confidence or self esteem and stays with you forever.

Strangely enough, it didn't happen so much at secondary school, well, not to me anyway.

I went on to be a teacher myself and have never, ever thought to use any such type of punishment on a child. If it had still been the done thing, which it isn't, I could never have belted or caned a child for any reason.

OK, I know things are difficult in schools these days but belting children is not the answer. Good behaviour is nurtured at home and home is where the initial discipline is needed. I don't mean smacking but, instead, clear boundaries and good examples should be set.

I can still feel the pain, the shame and the outrage felt in those very vulnerable years.

Shame on that system, I say, may it never return.

GQ
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pumps100
post 15th Dec 2008, 04:53pm
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QUOTE (gardenqueen @ 15th Dec 2008, 08:10pm) *
...OK, I know things are difficult in schools these days but belting children is not the answer. Good behaviour is nurtured at home and home is where the initial discipline is needed. I don't mean smacking but, instead, clear boundaries and good examples should be set.

GQ


You have said it all.

Ian
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stuarty
post 15th Dec 2008, 05:06pm
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paul I wonder what they pupils must think of us scots as I would love to belt you and see what you think corparal punnishment is cruel and uncalled for try talking in a quiet but firm manner with eye contact works even better try it and see the change in your pupils and the respect you will get a bet you have a name for the strap one teacher called his black peter grrrrrrrr to all whom strike a child with belt or hand or cane it tells me you feel power when hitting a child and bully also comes to my mind thats my opinion on the belt happy people of the 21century mad.gif


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gardenqueen
post 15th Dec 2008, 05:20pm
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"Without effective discipline there can be no effective teaching and learning".



Paul, I don't think anyone could argue with that, there must be boundaries and expectations, otherwise how would children/youngsters know what is expected of them? They will always test those boundaries, that is what they do. What we all did probably.

There are lots of ways to ensure a good learning environment which what all children are owed, parents too. Both put their trust in the school and the teachers. It feels very uncomfortable to me that parents might be prepared for their child to be physically punished, maybe they are just so appreciative of them getting an education that they are scared to rock the boat by protesting.

Children just don't learn properly if they afraid, believe me, I know. I feel that I never reached my potential for fear of getting something wrong, not answering in case the result was another belting. You soon learn to keep a low profile.

Good behaviour usually comes about in a healthy learning environment. OK, you don't have to be their "friend", you are their teacher and need to have respect for the right reasons, not fear.

Believe me, I know teaching is difficult and it can be frustrating at times when it might appear that students are not giving their all, but there is usually a way to motivate all youngsters.

GQ
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Java
post 15th Dec 2008, 06:37pm
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Whilst I don't agree with the belt for primary school pupils, I have to say I think it has a place in school discipline for teenagers. I think part of the reason for falling standards in behaviour is that kids know teachers have no real recourse other than expulsion, which in my opinion does very little good.

In my experience, teachers who fairly administered this punishment invariably commanded more respect than those who didn't. Not because of the physical pain but because, more often than not, those teachers respected us and there was a sense of letting them down.




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Lennox
post 15th Dec 2008, 06:43pm
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QUOTE (wellfield @ 14th Dec 2008, 08:00pm) *
Chronic truant,I had a card to be initialled by every teacher in every period--

funnily enough this never affected my future career
---I guess I learned all I had to at Wellfield nursery school,ha ha.---whats the old saying"send me the boy at three and I'll send you back the man at seven"



Wellfield , I was the same , and when I di dget the belt , which was two or three time for good reason, and I had a few board dusters tossed at my head, again for good reason Iam sure but it tought me a lesson, - You can't treat adults like that and think you are going to be rewarded..

I think that when they took the right to disipline kids away they turned into horrible kids who don't care about anything but themselves.


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murn
post 15th Dec 2008, 08:23pm
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got the belt in primary all the time for spelling huh.gif WT_ so where wis spell check back then.
got it a few times in secondary, fighting, starting a strike (allegedly) and talking class. Deserved it all except for the fight the other girl started it cool.gif
I agree there should bring the belt back in secondary school although I think now a days some of the teachers would be frightened to give it.
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wellfield
post 15th Dec 2008, 08:34pm
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QUOTE (Lennox @ 15th Dec 2008, 11:42am) *
Wellfield , I was the same , and when I di dget the belt , which was two or three time for good reason, and I had a few board dusters tossed at my head, again for good reason Iam sure but it tought me a lesson, - You can't treat adults like that and think you are going to be rewarded..

I think that when they took the right to disipline kids away they turned into horrible kids who don't care about anything but themselves.
Aye' Lennox,and the odds getting hit by the soft powdery end of that duster weren't very high!
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angel
post 15th Dec 2008, 08:57pm
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I was disciplined twice while in primary school with the strap, my age around 9--10 yrs, ,however during my time in high school I never had a problem I truly loved being in school ,yes even primary.
Good behavior should be taught in the home but this is,nt always the case, but it is hardly the teachers fault, so how do we stop mayhem breaking out in these classrooms, maybe some enlightened soul has the answer.


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