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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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ktv
post 5th Aug 2015, 03:33pm
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still nothing to do with the eu referendum
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Kemedian
post 5th Aug 2015, 03:39pm
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QUOTE (ktv @ 5th Aug 2015, 04:41pm) *
Nothing to do with the eu referendum.

As a nation totally independent of European Politics, the UK would be free from its current obligation to comply with its rules (e.g. taking our share of non-EU refugees).
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john.mcn
post 5th Aug 2015, 04:24pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 5th Aug 2015, 03:38pm) *
A No vote?

Ok, well that would remove our need to comply with the ECHR, then other European governments with a more liberal approach such as Sweden


The ECHR is a different body to the EU


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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Kemedian
post 5th Aug 2015, 05:46pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 5th Aug 2015, 05:32pm) *
The ECHR is a different body to the EU.

QUOTE ( post #131 )
... caseworkers must consider whether an EEA nationals* rights under Article 3 and/or 8 of the ECHR will be breached by the refusal of support...


* Including asylum seekers and failed asylum seekers who... have refugee status in an EEA State. The EEA - as you know - is made up of the member states of the EU together with Lichtenstein, Norway and Iceland.
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john.mcn
post 5th Aug 2015, 05:56pm
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What are you on about, the European court of human rights has nothing to do with whether the UK is member of the EU or EEA. There are 47 members/signatories to it and only 28 members of the EU..


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Kemedian
post 6th Aug 2015, 10:51am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 5th Aug 2015, 07:04pm) *
What are you on about, the European court of human rights has nothing to do with whether the UK is member of the EU or EEA. There are 47 members/signatories to it and only 28 members of the EU.

The trouble at the Calais border being bad news for the Yes vote, is what I'm on about.

To those engaging in the debate, these matters become apparent, however anyone listening to the worst factions within the No campaign (i.e. hardline UKIP) and voting accordingly could be fooled into thinking that success at the referendum equates to Party policy, which states:

QUOTE
UKIP would not seek to remain in the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) or European Economic Area (EEA) while those treaties maintain a principle of free movement of labour, which prevents the UK managing its own borders.

As you and I have been discussing elsewhere, to the well informed the independence of referenda and parliamentary elections should be evident - the results stand alone.

Unlike you, I very much hope that Yes means yes and Scotland's immediate future in the Union is kept safe. smile.gif
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john.mcn
post 6th Aug 2015, 05:20pm
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UKIP border policy is about the freedom of movement between member states, it has nothing to do with the problems at Calais, as we are not in Schengen we still have border controls with other EU states.


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Kemedian
post 6th Aug 2015, 10:51pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 6th Aug 2015, 06:28pm) *
UKIP border policy is about the freedom of movement between member states, it has nothing to do with the problems at Calais, as we are not in Schengen we still have border controls with other EU states.

If the UK did leave the EEA, which I concede won't be on the ballot, then the UKIP - if the voting system let it - could block the Channel and in so doing seal the fate of the UK economy.

It's the perception of the situation at the border and its economic impact that I am suggesting could artificially boost support for NO, amongst voters who don't bother to find out the facts, unless the two governments can somehow regain control and give the Yes campaign an opportunity to point out the light at the end of the Tunnel (as opposed to the infrared silhouette at the back of the lorry).
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Kemedian
post 10th Aug 2015, 09:00am
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I hate to say it, but...

www.metro.co.uk/foreign-secretary-causes-outrage...
Attached Image



www.theguardian.com/migrants-threaten-eu-living-standards...
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ktv
post 10th Aug 2015, 01:13pm
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kem has the penny dropped about this "all the parties will be voting yes" to the pointless (if so) referendum yet?

your recent "evidence" clearly shows different.
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Kemedian
post 10th Aug 2015, 06:10pm
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Evidence that I posted previously suggests that your's does not reflect the prominent opinion among the general public on this issue, ktv.

Plus, if enough people who do share your opinion don't bother to go out and vote or even engage in the debate, then obviously the contest will be artificially closer than expected.

This Indy Ref will be no less historic than Scotland's previous one. However, a significant difference - it is to be hoped - shall be that both the current Scottish and UK Governments will accept the (probable) Yes result, then move on.

I'm glad you share my optimism if not my enthusiasm, yet there are some proponents of Yes in Scotland (of a particular Political persuasion) who seem to think that the voting preference of the rest of the UK might be less than certain. smile.gif
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john.mcn
post 10th Aug 2015, 07:26pm
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You underestimate the amount of people pee'd off with the EU.


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ktv
post 11th Aug 2015, 07:43am
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Aug 2015, 07:18pm) *
Evidence that I posted previously suggests that your's does not reflect the prominent opinion among the general public on this issue, ktv.

Plus, if enough people who do share your opinion don't bother to go out and vote or even engage in the debate, then obviously the contest will be artificially closer than expected.

This Indy Ref will be no less historic than Scotland's previous one. However, a significant difference - it is to be hoped - shall be that both the current Scottish and UK Governments will accept the (probable) Yes result, then move on.

I'm glad you share my optimism if not my enthusiasm, yet there are some proponents of Yes in Scotland (of a particular Political persuasion) who seem to think that the voting preference of the rest of the UK might be less than certain. smile.gif


the only opinion I have expressed is that ALL the (major)parties do not support staying in the EU as you suggest.

the amount of anti EU rhetoric they have been spouting and you have even been quoting, yet im not surprised you still think it will be a unanimous yes from all involved as you believe every single thing the UK gov says.

now your saying the pro EU side will only win if people against cant be bothered to vote....yip good luck with that
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Kemedian
post 11th Aug 2015, 11:43am
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QUOTE (ktv @ 10th Aug 2015, 02:21pm) *
kem has the penny dropped about this "all the Parties will be voting yes" to the pointless (if so) referendum yet?

I'm sorry, I tried my best to interpret your above line, honestly I did.

I thought perhaps you had tried to write that the referendum is pointless if all the Parties will be voting Yes, suggesting perhaps a win for Yes in your opinion.

Now you appear to have written that all the Parties will be voting No, in your opinion:

QUOTE (ktv @ 11th Aug 2015, 08:51am) *
The only opinion I have expressed is that ALL the (major) parties do not support staying in the EU...

Thanks for clearing that up for me. huh.gif

QUOTE (ktv @ 11th Aug 2015, 08:51am) *
Now your saying the pro EU side will only win if people against cant be bothered to vote.

In fact, I said the exact opposite. If enough people who share the view that the vote is "pointless" don't get involved or even turn out, then all those against (who will surely turn out and vote) may make the contest closer than expected. A point that John took issue with. rolleyes.gif
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ktv
post 11th Aug 2015, 01:40pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 11th Aug 2015, 12:51pm) *
I'm sorry, I tried my best to interpret your above line, honestly I did.

I thought perhaps you had tried to write that the referendum is pointless if all the Parties will be voting Yes, suggesting perhaps a win for Yes in your opinion.

Now you appear to have written that all the Parties will be voting No, in your opinion:


Thanks for clearing that up for me. huh.gif


In fact, I said the exact opposite. If enough people who share the view that the vote is "pointless" don't get involved or even turn out, then all those against (who will surely turn out and vote) may make the contest closer than expected. A point that John took issue with. rolleyes.gif


let me explain it to you

you've claimed ALL the major parties are supporting the YES vote while constantly producing evidence that they want out....got that?.....your own posts are evidence even for you ....all anti EU rhetoric from the major uk parties.

everyone and their dog (except you) seen this coming that's why I said (ages ago) that its pointless holding a referendum if every party wants the same out come......they clearly didn't all want the same outcome then and don't now....your own posts show this.

at no time did I say all the parties would be voting no
at no time did I say the yes/no voting public thought it was pointless either.
at no time have I said id be voting yes or no.

what im saying is that your deluded if you think all the major parties want the same result as you claim...you've defeated your own argument (yet again) with your own posts.
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