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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Glasgow Discussions _ Project Fear. Stifling True Discussion

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 7th Jul 2013, 06:32pm

For the sake of healthy argument, the No camp should get free reign to articulate. But their political Masters suppress this with Project Fear, a cynical distraction, which substitutes much-needed debate for scaremongering.

Is this because they lack faith in their viewpoint`s validity? (Which might explain why they didn`t unleash Project Persuasion). Or are they brazenly flaunting what they really think of us?

Are we too simple to partake in a grown-up debate on our own country`s future? Like pets/kids, is the only communication we understand approving/disapproving grunts from our elders? Of tones designed to get them what they want by paralyzing our minds through targeting our most basic emotions?

I don`t think so. And neither do you. But I do think Project Fear proves a genuine two-sided debate is well off the aganda.

Posted by: Jupiter 8th Jul 2013, 02:04am

You have a point there. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Scotsman 8th Jul 2013, 09:24am

It think you have a good point there too RR. The problem is that the NO people know all too well that this is a very strong line to take and it might just win through. I remember the European referendum in 75 and it was the same thing then where fear of what would happen if there was change was used to great effect. Its the fear of change card thats being played here and the YES people need to find a way to counter it. And quickly!! Any suggestions about what they could do??

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 8th Jul 2013, 03:28pm

Here`s the irony about Project Fear. The No Campaign aren`t necessarily Imperialist zombies. People fear the unknown. Job, marriage, kids: all huge life-changing commitments. Can any side claim “no worries” walking out the psychological door of their foster parents after 300 years?

Going it alone isn`t about leaving Britain. It`s about taking charge of our own collective identity in the modern world. Britain`s identity`s atrophied. We joined the Union 300 years ago. It served a purpose. It became a super power. But the world`s moved on from Empire and Commonwealth.

They decry Independence “will lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom”. What the ruling classes really mean is the English, Welsh and Irish working classes will realize it`s high time to redefine themselves too. And that means re-evaluating the validity of their political Lord & Masters. So the double-irony of Project Fear is that its` ultimate audience are its` very own architects!

Posted by: Talisman 12th Jul 2013, 01:33am

QUOTE (Ruchazie Rat @ 8th Jul 2013, 03:36pm) *
Here`s the irony about Project Fear. The No Campaign aren`t necessarily Imperialist zombies. People fear the unknown. Job, marriage, kids: all huge life-changing commitments. Can any side claim “no worries” walking out the psychological door of their foster parents after 300 years?

Going it alone isn`t about leaving Britain. It`s about taking charge of our own collective identity in the modern world. Britain`s identity`s atrophied. We joined the Union 300 years ago. It served a purpose. It became a super power. But the world`s moved on from Empire and Commonwealth.

They decry Independence “will lead to the break-up of the United Kingdom”. What the ruling classes really mean is the English, Welsh and Irish working classes will realize it`s high time to redefine themselves too. And that means re-evaluating the validity of their political Lord & Masters. So the double-irony of Project Fear is that its` ultimate audience are its` very own architects!

Please be aware of the history surrounding the "Act of Union". We as a sovereign nation did not join the Union. It was joined for us by a mercenary clique who were bribed to some extent by the English lords who had an eye to making profit from control of Scotland's produce.
A good reference to this shameful episode can be found in "A History of the Scottish People 1560-1830" By T.C. Smout. The riots continued against this imposition for three days in the now capital of "North Britain".

"Fare weel e'n tae our Scottish name. sae famed in martial story".
R.Burns.

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 14th Jul 2013, 05:32pm

Seem to remember being told many many moons ago that this deed was sealed, in some form or another, in a publican house in Buchanan Street (or was it Union Street?). Does anyone know which particular pub this was? Is it still standing in any shape or form?

Posted by: Betsy2009 14th Jul 2013, 07:36pm

Scotland disnae hae a King
She disnae hae a Queen
Hoo can ye hae a Lizzie Twa
when the furst yin hisnae been?

I just thought I'd throw that one in.
No reason - it just popped into my head.

Posted by: wombat 14th Jul 2013, 10:32pm

sad.gif

 

Posted by: DavidT 15th Jul 2013, 05:16am

Lynton Crosby is Mr. Project Fear. He is the government aide who recently put a stop to the plain packaging for fags (his lobbying company represents tobacco companies). He spins the north sea oil stories (his lobbying company has clients in the petroleum industry).
He gets his chums in the world of media to run all the scare stories. In the run up to Australian elections he had the sympathetic papers increase the frequency of immigration related stories.

The latest news on him links him to fracking.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/now-cameron-aide-lynton-crosbys-links-to-fracking-industry-are-explored-8708331.html

Posted by: Betsy2009 15th Jul 2013, 10:05am

This sort of thing is really not helping ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22550425

Posted by: JAGZ1876 15th Jul 2013, 10:43am

QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 15th Jul 2013, 10:13am) *
This sort of thing is really not helping ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22550425

Why should the Scottish Government give out information that no other government in the World give's out Betsy?

Bearing in mind that the EU can only talk directly to members states, then why has Westminster repeatedly refused the Scottish governments requests for them to ask the EU to clarify the position of an independent Scotland within the EU.

Could it be that Westminster won't like the answer the EU would give being made public?

Of course it is, as they would have used any negative independent Scottish EU response a long time ago.

Let the people of Scotland forge our own future.

Vote YES next year thumbup.gif

Posted by: Betsy2009 15th Jul 2013, 01:56pm

It sounds to me like they are keeping this card up their sleeve to pull out at an appropriate moment so it must have gone against the Westminster view.

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 15th Jul 2013, 04:23pm

QUOTE (DavidT @ 15th Jul 2013, 05:24am) *
Lynton Crosby is Mr. Project Fear... the latest news on him links him to fracking.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/now-cameron-aide-lynton-crosbys-links-to-fracking-industry-are-explored-8708331.html


And fracking`s reputation`s down there in the toilet alongside fags. Checkout docs on such at RT (Russia Today) or Al Jazeera. Local residents in fracking zones are left to pick up the pieces as Big Business scoops up the dosh, hiring a Crosbyite to blind the greater populace with dazzle and spin.

Fracking don`t seem to be turning out to be The Great White Hope it`s being cracked up to be (no pun intended). They done some in Blackpool and -- true to form Stateside -- earth tremors were forthcoming. (Ever heard of that in Blackpool before?).

Interesting how -- in a "conveniently coincidental" sort of way -- fracking is claimed to be The Next Big Thing just as we`re deciding whether to go it alone and how we`ll fund that. In the interests of restoring some balance... you see any of the Arab States shitting themselves over fracking? Me
neither.

Better rack up some other rhetoric, Lynton. Or you`ll be moved to another Govt Dept. Probably the DWP working under IDS. For 65 a week.

Posted by: DavidT 17th Jul 2013, 05:21am

BBC reshuffle Radio 4's today programme so that presenter James Naughtie can present Radio Scotland's referendum coverage. Here's how Drum magazine reports it...
http://m.thedrum.com/location/scotland
A pretty ordinary news story with no bias one way or the other, but I couldn't help noticing the AdChoice advertising banner at the top of the page is for Better Together.
Sometimes the AdChoice button on the right hand panel right here on GG boards is also an ad for Better Together.
I don't think I've seen any advertising banners or buttons for Yes Scotland anywhere. Just saying.

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 24th Jul 2013, 04:55pm

QUOTE (DavidT @ 15th Jul 2013, 05:24am) *
Lynton Crosby is Mr. Project Fear. He`s the government aide who recently put a stop to plain packaging for fags (his lobbying company represents tobacco companies). He spins north sea oil stories (his lobbying company has clients in the petroleum industry). He gets chums in the media to run scare stories. In the run up to Australian elections, he had sympathetic papers increase the frequency of immigration related stories.

The latest news on him links him to fracking.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/now-cameron-aide-lynton-crosbys-links-to-fracking-industry-are-explored-8708331.html


And his “dark magic” worked!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23358329


They`ll tweak this strategy for our Referendum: forget Independence discussions with the UK. We throwbacks are too childlike to understand the “adult issues” involved. So scaremongering`s the order of the day. And from a foreigner they parachuted in! Even No-ers should seethe: you`re being denied the chance to express your beliefs.

Ching-ching! Crosbie will be rewarded come a possible No vote. Plus... promotion to masterminding the 2015 election! (The strategy? Immigration-scaremongering). But buyer beware: the UK can`t outmanoeuvre immigration-chancers. The EU won`t let them. And, since Brussels is the Tories` pension plan, they only claim they want to quit. Safe in the knowledge Mr Crosby lingers in the wings to mastermind that Referendum`s strategy too. With a rigged question. Ching-ching!

No wonder fag-making pals bunged him $6 mill for killing plain packaging. After all, how can one groom impressionable young kids without a photo blitzkrieg of bikini-clad lungs -- sorry -- girls? (Tories pals can advise him on “minimising” the tax).

It would seem every principle has a price. And the lesson is, don`t sell it short...


Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 24th Jul 2013, 05:05pm

QUOTE (DavidT @ 15th Jul 2013, 05:24am) *
... the latest news on him links him to fracking.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/now-cameron-aide-lynton-crosbys-links-to-fracking-industry-are-explored-8708331.html

From the above link
Crosby Textor represents Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association, an oil and gas lobby group campaigning for fracking. Its` chief operating officer criticised anti-fracking campaigners: “The opportunity provided by shale gas is too important to be jeopardised by political scare campaigns run by activist groups.”

CT`s strategy on our referendum? “The opportunity provided by North Sea oil and gas is so important we`re instigating political scare campaigns to intimidate the Scottish electorate”.




Posted by: Talsman 27th Jul 2013, 10:14am

QUOTE (Ruchazie Rat @ 24th Jul 2013, 05:13pm) *
From the above link
Crosby Textor represents Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association, an oil and gas lobby group campaigning for fracking. Its` chief operating officer criticised anti-fracking campaigners: “The opportunity provided by shale gas is too important to be jeopardised by political scare campaigns run by activist groups.”

CT`s strategy on our referendum? “The opportunity provided by North Sea oil and gas is so important we`re instigating political scare campaigns to intimidate the Scottish electorate”.

Shale oil is what makes Canada the richest country in the world per head of population. Shale oil is what will lift America from dependency on foreign oil. Most of the anti-frackers in Australia are the posturing feral green luditites whose whole existence is one of hysterical doom and gloom prophesies and global scaremongering, posing as a spiritual revival of cosmic laugh.gif conscience. They benifit none but preach whch to many stupid enough to heed them.

Scaremongering is what will mark the new millenia. Dr. Ronnie Lang predicted the rise of these monsterously "justified" and supremely rightous individuals way back in the early 60's

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 28th Jul 2013, 03:53pm

QUOTE (Talsman @ 27th Jul 2013, 10:22am) *
Scaremongering is what will mark the new millenia. Dr. Ronnie Lang predicted the rise of these monsterously "justified" and supremely rightous individuals way back in the early 60's


The tactics and posturing described in that statement can quite equally be applied to both sides. Namely, LC and his employers (both governmental or corporate business).

Posted by: DavidT 28th Jul 2013, 09:32pm

QUOTE (Talsman @ 27th Jul 2013, 10:22am) *
Shale oil is what makes Canada the richest country in the world per head of population. Shale oil is what will lift America from dependency on foreign oil. Most of the anti-frackers in Australia are the posturing feral green luditites whose whole existence is one of hysterical doom and gloom prophesies and global scaremongering, posing as a spiritual revival of cosmic laugh.gif conscience. They benifit none but preach whch to many stupid enough to heed them.

Scaremongering is what will mark the new millenia. Dr. Ronnie Lang predicted the rise of these monsterously "justified" and supremely rightous individuals way back in the early 60's

You certainly know how to endear yourself to all the people intelligent enough to ask safety related questions of an industry concerned with nothing else but money and power. I count myself among those "stupid enough to heed" the warnings.

Posted by: Ruchazie Rat 29th Jul 2013, 02:06pm

QUOTE (Talsman @ 27th Jul 2013, 10:22am) *
Scaremongering is what will mark the new millenia. Dr. Ronnie Lang predicted the rise of these monsterously "justified" and supremely rightous individuals way back in the early 60's


Is Dr Lang still alive and kicking? I wonder if he`d like to ammend that "monsterously "justified" and supremely righteous individuals" part? Cos, if you go high enough in any of the "squeaky clean" corporates you imply he`s endorsing, you`ll ultimately find what some might deem "monsterously "justified" and supremely (self) righteous individuals". Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch, need I go on?

Posted by: TeeHeeHee 3rd Oct 2017, 06:43pm

QUOTE (Ruchazie Rat @ 24th Jul 2013, 06:05pm) *
From the above link
Crosby Textor represents Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association, an oil and gas lobby group campaigning for fracking. Its` chief operating officer criticised anti-fracking campaigners: “The opportunity provided by shale gas is too important to be jeopardised by political scare campaigns run by activist groups.”

CT`s strategy on our referendum? “The opportunity provided by North Sea oil and gas is so important we`re instigating political scare campaigns to intimidate the Scottish electorate”.


The Scottish government has announced an "effective ban" on fracking.
Energy Minister Paul Wheelhouse told MSPs that the practice "cannot and will not take place in Scotland".
He said an existing moratorium on the technique, which has been in place since 2015, would continue "indefinitely" after a consultation showed "overwhelming" opposition.



http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41484153

Posted by: Talisman 19th Oct 2017, 11:13pm

QUOTE (TeeHeeHee @ 3rd Oct 2017, 06:43pm) *
The Scottish government has announced an "effective ban" on fracking.
Energy Minister Paul Wheelhouse told MSPs that the practice "cannot and will not take place in Scotland".
He said an existing moratorium on the technique, which has been in place since 2015, would continue "indefinitely" after a consultation showed "overwhelming" opposition.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41484153

When the oil in the power stations run dry, when transport comes to a grinding halt, the winter comes with freezing death in its' wake, then will you hear them crowing;" FRACK FRACK FRACK".

Posted by: angel 20th Oct 2017, 03:44am

QUOTE (Talisman @ 19th Oct 2017, 10:13pm) *
When the oil in the power stations run dry, when transport comes to a grinding halt, the winter comes with freezing death in its' wake, then will you hear them crowing;" FRACK FRACK FRACK".


----------------------------------------------------

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/science/fracking-earthquakes-alberta-canada.html