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Glasgow Boards/Forums _ Other Discussions _ Uk General Election 2019

Posted by: DannyH 26th Nov 2019, 10:43pm

I have decided to start a new topic because the Brexit and Scottish Independence topic prevents discussion on issues other than these two aforementioned, from being discussed.

Prior to submitting the first post to this new topic, I will start off by saying that I have never supported any political party during my lifetime. I am a ‘floating’ voter.

One of the reasons I have for starting this topic is the question of the anti Jewish statements attributed to some Labour Party members. I note the Chief Rabbi has come out telling his people not to vote for Labour.

I would like to know what exactly every Labour Party member accused of offensive language actually said regarding this issue.

I am not suggesting for a moment that there is nothing of concern to have been said by any of them. However, did any of them say anything which sympathised with the plight of the Palestinian people?
Does this Rabbi not realise that he has just handed the UK Islamic Community vote to Labour?

If my local Islamic newsagents view is that Jeremy Corbyn is a hero, then I rest my case.

Danny

Posted by: Dykejumper 26th Nov 2019, 10:53pm

The Rabbi knew that the Islamic vote has long been a given for Labour.

3 million moslems
280 thousand jews

Posted by: zascot 27th Nov 2019, 08:11am

On the info i seen here the Rabbi did not say do not vote for labour he said what was wrong in his opinion with labour and did not give any directives to the Jewish voters.

Posted by: DannyH 27th Nov 2019, 11:14am

QUOTE (zascot @ 27th Nov 2019, 08:11am) *
On the info i seen here the Rabbi did not say do not vote for labour he said what was wrong in his opinion with labour and did not give any directives to the Jewish voters.

Hi Zascot

Fair comment from you.

In your response above, you rightly say that he said what was wrong in his opinion with Labour. Your comment could give the impression that he talked on a number of issues like Nationalising the rail network for example. However his speech was a criticism of the Labour leader’s lack of rooting out anti Jewish, Labour Party members.

He made quite a long speech, regarding what is going on in the Labour Party under Corbyn’s leadership regarding Jewish people. During his speech he said, “Not my place to tell any person how they should vote”, then went on to urge them “to vote with their conscience”.

To me that means don’t vote Labour, especially after reading other comments made during his speech.

I hope you don’t feel I am being confrontational with you. I don’t want to go down that road in this topic. I welcome the views of other contributors who can debate in a r reasoned manner.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: zascot 27th Nov 2019, 02:56pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 27th Nov 2019, 11:14am) *
Hi Zascot

Fair comment from you.

In your response above, you rightly say that he said what was wrong in his opinion with Labour. Your comment could give the impression that he talked on a number of issues like Nationalising the rail network for example. However his speech was a criticism of the Labour leader’s lack of rooting out anti Jewish, Labour Party members.

He made quite a long speech, regarding what is going on in the Labour Party under Corbyn’s leadership regarding Jewish people. During his speech he said, “Not my place to tell any person how they should vote”, then went on to urge them “to vote with their conscience”.

To me that means don’t vote Labour, especially after reading other comments made during his speech.

I hope you don’t feel I am being confrontational with you. I don’t want to go down that road in this topic. I welcome the views of other contributors who can debate in a r reasoned manner.

Regards

Danny


You agree that I am right in saying he did not tell the Jewish people to not vote Labour, which is a fact. I don`t know how that statement can give people any other impression. I can not agree that if he tells people to vote with their conscience that is instructing them not to vote Labour. You welcome the views of other contributors who can debate in a reasoned manner, does that mean agree with you. I don`t know why you started the thread if you don`t want correcting of your interpretation of statements nade.

Posted by: wombat 27th Nov 2019, 05:44pm

rolleyes.gif your for it now laugh.gif

Posted by: DannyH 27th Nov 2019, 10:55pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 27th Nov 2019, 02:56pm) *
You agree that I am right in saying he did not tell the Jewish people to not vote Labour, which is a fact. I don`t know how that statement can give people any other impression. I can not agree that if he tells people to vote with their conscience that is instructing them not to vote Labour. You welcome the views of other contributors who can debate in a reasoned manner, does that mean agree with you. I don`t know why you started the thread if you don`t want correcting of your interpretation of statements nade.

Hello Zascot

I am genuinely sorry that you feel that my response to your post makes you feel that I only welcome the views of contributors who agree with me. I certainly do not want this topic which I started, to go the same way as the Scottish Independence and Brexit forums. I welcome the opinions of others, provided they are reasonable like yours is.

Perhaps I should have just said, that although the Chief Rabbi didn’t actually use the words, “Don’t vote Labour”, his tone and wording were equivalent to a ‘Wink Wink’ delivery. I also think the media coverage given to his speech would not have been given the prominence it received if it had not been seen as a direct criticism of the Labour Party, and an embarrassment to it.

Looks like I have got this topic off to a bad start. Sorry everyone!

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 28th Nov 2019, 07:52am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 27th Nov 2019, 10:55pm) *
Hello Zascot

I am genuinely sorry that you feel that my response to your post makes you feel that I only welcome the views of contributors who agree with me. I certainly do not want this topic which I started, to go the same way as the Scottish Independence and Brexit forums. I welcome the opinions of others, provided they are reasonable like yours is.

Perhaps I should have just said, that although the Chief Rabbi didn’t actually use the words, “Don’t vote Labour”, his tone and wording were equivalent to a ‘Wink Wink’ delivery. I also think the media coverage given to his speech would not have been given the prominence it received if it had not been seen as a direct criticism of the Labour Party, and an embarrassment to it.

Looks like I have got this topic off to a bad start. Sorry everyone!

Danny


Posted by: DannyH 28th Nov 2019, 08:03am

I am posting the following from the BBC news website, www.bbc.co.uk on 26 November 2019.

The quotation marks are the BBC’s, not mine.

Chief Rabbi is quoted as having claimed,

“The overwhelming majority of British Jews are gripped by anxiety” at the prospect of a Labour victory in 12 December’s general election,

Danny


Posted by: JAGZ1876 28th Nov 2019, 12:11pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 27th Nov 2019, 10:55pm) *
I certainly do not want this topic which I started, to go the same way as the Scottish Independence and Brexit forums.


And yet there is confrontation here already from the word go, and not one of the regular independence or Brexit contributors bar yourself involved.

I'll just leave that there with you Danny. wink.gif

Posted by: zascot 28th Nov 2019, 02:09pm

Sorry Danny but I only deal in facts not wink wink and hearsay otherwise I could find that the chief Rabbi meant anything I wanted.
I do not get involved imuch in the other topics as I left UK nearly 50 years ago and I am not affected as the people on the other threads.

Posted by: Dykejumper 28th Nov 2019, 02:25pm

Would be nice to hear from the usual Labour big names not usually slow to appear on TV

Yvette Cooper, Hillary Benn, Liz Kendall, Stephen Kinnock, Lucy Powell, Darren Jones, Jess Phillips…and Ed Miliband.

Posted by: DannyH 28th Nov 2019, 06:39pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 28th Nov 2019, 12:11pm) *
And yet there is confrontation here already from the word go, and not one of the regular independence or Brexit contributors bar yourself involved.

I'll just leave that there with you Danny. ;)


Jagz, please don’t go down that road. There is no confrontation. Zascot was correct. The Rabbi didn’t utter the words I originally posted. What I should have done in my original post, was to post the BBC report regarding this issue of the Rabbi’s statements. I then could have followed that up by expanding my post to include what else the Rabbi had said. I could have and should have said that the Rabbi went on to say, following his very critical statements about Corbyn, that the Jewish electorate should use their conscience when voting. Hardly an endorsement of The Labour Party, I would suggest.

By the way, I think you will find Wombat has ‘contributed’ to this topic. So you see, you are just human like me. We both should be more careful what we write.

Danny

Posted by: wombat 28th Nov 2019, 07:41pm

[quote name='DannyH' post='3741373' date='28th Nov 2019, 06:39pm']Jagz, please don’t go down that road. There is no confrontation

rolleyes.gif c,mon danny any discussion on the worlds "religious elite"isconfrontational. laugh.gif


Posted by: Kemedian 28th Nov 2019, 08:10pm

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/institute-for-fiscal-studies-on-conservative-manifesto-1-6398545



https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jo-swinson-wins-court-bid-20967854
Tut, tut, tut.

Posted by: carmella 29th Nov 2019, 08:58am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 28th Nov 2019, 08:10pm) *
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/institute-for-fiscal-studies-on-conservative-manifesto-1-6398545



https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/jo-swinson-wins-court-bid-20967854
Tut, tut, tut.


Kem they have no chance, however, in moving into Nbr. 10! It is very easy to be spouting your manifesto when you already know you won’t form the next UK Government😀👍

This is a good thread to move over to as we are having an election. Danny was right to open it, we can always return to the Brexit discussions later.

Posted by: carmella 29th Nov 2019, 09:02am

QUOTE (zascot @ 28th Nov 2019, 02:09pm) *
Sorry Danny but I only deal in facts not wink wink and hearsay otherwise I could find that the chief Rabbi meant anything I wanted.
I do not get involved imuch in the other topics as I left UK nearly 50 years ago and I am not affected as the people on the other threads.


Oh no! You’re not old enough to have left so long ago 🤪🤪🤪🤓🐾🐾🐾🐾🐾

Posted by: zascot 29th Nov 2019, 10:26am

QUOTE (carmella @ 29th Nov 2019, 09:02am) *
Oh no! You’re not old enough to have left so long ago 🤪🤪🤪🤓🐾🐾🐾🐾🐾

Left Aug 71 to spend 6 months here on contract then possibly 6 months in Oz. Loved it here never went to Oz married an English girl from Bolton in 74 ( don`t tell the SNP biggrin.gif ) and I`m still here.Travelled the world from here on Business and pleasure but consider SA home.
Nice to see a thread started about te election, can`t imagine there will be any disagreements on here biggrin.gif

Posted by: carmella 29th Nov 2019, 10:35am

QUOTE (zascot @ 29th Nov 2019, 10:26am) *
Left Aug 71 to spend 6 months here on contract then possibly 6 months in Oz. Loved it here never went to Oz married an English girl from Bolton in 74 ( don`t tell the SNP biggrin.gif ) and I`m still here.Travelled the world from here on Business and pleasure but consider SA home.
Nice to see a thread started about te election, can`t imagine there will be any disagreements on here biggrin.gif

You did well my cousin Johnnie moved to Jo’burg 73.

Now we are both off topic LoL

Well that is a country that has been good to you.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 29th Nov 2019, 11:21am

QUOTE (zascot @ 29th Nov 2019, 10:26am) *
married an English girl from Bolton in 74 ( don`t tell the SNP biggrin.gif )



There are many English people in the SNP Zascot, and many members of the SNP are married to English people (myself included) but since you have been away from Scotland so long i can understand why you're so out of touch with what is happening here. yes.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 29th Nov 2019, 11:25am

It's getting more and more like 1930's Germany.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/environment/news/108259/tories-threaten-pull-channel-4s-license-over-ice-sculpture-debate

Let's show the Tories what we think of them by making Scotland a Tory free zone on the 12th. wink.gif

Posted by: carmella 29th Nov 2019, 12:23pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 11:21am) *
There are many English people in the SNP Zascot, and many members of the SNP are married to English people (myself included) but since you have been away from Scotland so long i can understand why you're so out of touch with what is happening here. yes.gif

I think he has been back here many times Jagz, he was joking. Lighten up!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 29th Nov 2019, 01:06pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 29th Nov 2019, 12:23pm) *
I think he has been back here many times Jagz, he was joking. Lighten up!


So it's half fun full earnest then. wink.gif

Posted by: DannyH 29th Nov 2019, 02:15pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 11:21am) *
There are many English people in the SNP Zascot, and many members of the SNP are married to English people (myself included) but since you have been away from Scotland so long i can understand why you're so out of touch with what is happening here. :yes:

Jagz how about submitting a post relevant to the topic. For some reason or other you seem to consider yourself to be the controller of who says what. You could have made the above comment (directed at Zascot) to Bilbo and Wombat many times. But no, you support them at every opportunity.

This topic was started by me, only a few days ago. You are already spoiling it. We are not a one Party state yet. I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the SNP in the forthcoming general election. At least you would be addressing the issue. So come on, get on your soap box and let’s hear it. That’s why I started this topic.

Danny.

Posted by: carmella 29th Nov 2019, 03:19pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 01:06pm) *
So it's half fun full earnest then. wink.gif

I don’t think so really Jagz.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 29th Nov 2019, 04:08pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Nov 2019, 02:15pm) *
Jagz how about submitting a post relevant to the topic. For some reason or other you seem to consider yourself to be the controller of who says what. You could have made the above comment (directed at Zascot) to Bilbo and Wombat many times. But no, you support them at every opportunity.

Danny.


I was responding to a post that Zascot made Danny, surely that is relevant? unsure.gif

You've lost me with the point you're trying to make about something i may or may not say to other members.

I'm not asking you or anyone else to vote for the SNP, but if you want to know why i will be voting for them then it's simply that they are the only party who will stick up for the interests of Scotland and who will not roll over for the Tories.

Your turn now Danny, who will you be voting for and why?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 29th Nov 2019, 04:13pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Nov 2019, 02:15pm) *
We are not a one Party state yet.

Danny.


Give it time Danny, the Tory party are already working on that at the moment, in case you missed my post from earlier this morning.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/environment/news/108259/tories-threaten-pull-channel-4s-license-over-ice-sculpture-debate

Posted by: wombat 29th Nov 2019, 06:11pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 04:08pm) *
I'm not asking you or anyone else to vote for the SNP, but if you want to know why i will be voting for them then it's simply that they are the only party who will stick up for the interests of Scotland and who will not roll over for the Tories.


good enuff reason thumbup.gif

Posted by: DannyH 29th Nov 2019, 11:25pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 04:13pm) *
Give it time Danny, the Tory party are already working on that at the moment, in case you missed my post from earlier this morning.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/environment/news/108259/tories-threaten-pull-channel-4s-license-over-ice-sculpture-debate

Jagz, I didn’t miss your post. I didn’t bother reading it. However, I have just looked it up. So Johnson didn’t go on the Channel 4 programme, but asked if Gove could take his place. Channel 4 refused this request, so now a Conservative source is reported to have said that Channel 4’s license could be looked at sometime in the future. Wow!

Let’s compare that to Nicola Sturgeon’s plan to support a Labour Government, provided Corbyn agrees to another Scotland Independence referendum next year. Tell me which of the two scenarios is the more likely to become a reality?

That was a rhetorical question by the way.

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 29th Nov 2019, 11:48pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Nov 2019, 04:08pm) *
I was responding to a post that Zascot made Danny, surely that is relevant? :unsure:

You've lost me with the point you're trying to make about something i may or may not say to other members.

I'm not asking you or anyone else to vote for the SNP, but if you want to know why i will be voting for them then it's simply that they are the only party who will stick up for the interests of Scotland and who will not roll over for the Tories.

Your turn now Danny, who will you be voting for and why?

Hi Jagz, it’s me back again.

You say I have lost you regarding the point I am trying to make about what you may or may not say to other members.

Okay. In your response to Zascot you said, “—————since you have been away from Scotland so long I can understand why you are so out of touch with what is happening here”.

Your other two Amigos fall into that category. Bilbo lives in Spain, Wombat lives in Australia. I can’t recall you ever saying that to them.

Regarding who I will vote for, all I have to tell you is that I will not be voting for the SNP or the Lib Dem’s. This is a General Election. I want to leave the EU, if for no other reason that I am opposed to Open Borders. I haven’t seen anything on this forum about the 39 young people who were found dead in a truck, or the number of young women who have been brought to this country legally from Slovakia. They were promised a better quality of life in Scotland. Where did they finish up? In brothels in Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency, or sold on into forced marriages. She says we need freedom of movement, on the grounds we have an ageing population.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 30th Nov 2019, 11:42am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Nov 2019, 11:25pm) *
Jagz, I didn’t miss your post. I didn’t bother reading it. However, I have just looked it up. So Johnson didn’t go on the Channel 4 programme, but asked if Gove could take his place. Channel 4 refused this request, so now a Conservative source is reported to have said that Channel 4’s license could be looked at sometime in the future. Wow!

Let’s compare that to Nicola Sturgeon’s plan to support a Labour Government, provided Corbyn agrees to another Scotland Independence referendum next year. Tell me which of the two scenarios is the more likely to become a reality?

That was a rhetorical question by the way.

Danny


That's not a rhetorical question at all Danny, Labour have no chance of forming the next Westminster government, so your first scenario is the most likely to happen.

Just out of curiosity, why do you not read links? unsure.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 30th Nov 2019, 11:54am

Danny, If bilbo or Wombat were to casually throw a false accusation of racism against others while trying to pass it off as a joke by adding a laughing Emoji then yes, i would point out the error of their ways.

So you won't tell us who you'll vote for and why?

Do you honestly think that being out of the EU will stop human trafficking?

Posted by: DannyH 30th Nov 2019, 12:18pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Nov 2019, 11:42am) *
That's not a rhetorical question at all Danny, Labour have no chance of forming the next Westminster government, so your first scenario is the most likely to happen.

Just out of curiosity, why do you not read links? :unsure:

Hi Jagz, good of you to stay on the topic.

Based on the media coverage of this General Election, I agree with you that Labour has no chance of forming the next Westminster Government. For the same reason, I also think that no political Party has a chance of forming a Westminster Government. So it looks like it is going to be a hung Parliament once again. In other words, we are back to square one.

This means that neither the Tories or Labour will be held to account for the promises they made during the run up to the election. I think it is ironical that the Scottish electorate, including EU Nationals, voted to stay in the UK during the Scotland Independence referendum, and now the future of the whole of the UK is being held to ransom by the SNP. That is of course based on the assumption that the SNP will obtain a significant number of Parliamentary Constituencies.


Regarding me reading the links, I didn’t know it was compulsory to do so. I have other things to attend to.

Danny

Posted by: Dykejumper 30th Nov 2019, 01:28pm

Danny, the Bookies think the Conservatives will have a majority of circa 50, they also reckon
the Gnats will get around 44 seats.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 30th Nov 2019, 02:30pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 30th Nov 2019, 12:18pm) *
Hi Jagz, good of you to stay on the topic.

and now the future of the whole of the UK is being held to ransom by the SNP. That is of course based on the assumption that the SNP will obtain a significant number of Parliamentary Constituencies.


Regarding me reading the links, I didn’t know it was compulsory to do so. I have other things to attend to.

Danny


Nice of you to say so Danny, but i rarely go off topic, i was replying to Zascot who had gone off topic but you seem ok with that.

Can you explain how you think the SNP will hold the whole of the UK to ransom?

You're right it's not compulsory to read links, but when you're having a discussion with someone it's courteous to understand their viewpoint.

Posted by: DannyH 30th Nov 2019, 11:38pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Nov 2019, 02:30pm) *
Nice of you to say so Danny, but i rarely go off topic, i was replying to Zascot who had gone off topic but you seem ok with that.

Can you explain how you think the SNP will hold the whole of the UK to ransom?

You're right it's not compulsory to read links, but when you're having a discussion with someone it's courteous to understand their viewpoint.

I will ignore your claim that you rarely go off topic. I will leave others to have their own opinions about that.

Jagz, if you need me to explain why I think the SNP will hold the country to ransom, then we live on different planets. The language she has used on TV debates is straightforward. She is shooting from the hip.

She won’t support a Tory Government. She will only support Labour if Corbyn agrees to a second referendum. She expects the SNP to have the third largest number of Parliamentary seats, as they do now. Need I say more?

Regarding your comment that when you are having a discussion with someone it is courteous to understand their viewpoint, I think you are correct. From my perspective it would be helpful to me as a reader if you would give readers your viewpoint. In some cases you give one liners, then give the link.

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 30th Nov 2019, 11:55pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Nov 2019, 11:54am) *
Danny, If bilbo or Wombat were to casually throw a false accusation of racism against others while trying to pass it off as a joke by adding a laughing Emoji then yes, i would point out the error of their ways.

So you won't tell us who you'll vote for and why?

Do you honestly think that being out of the EU will stop human trafficking?

Jagz this is becoming a full time job for us.

I won’t tell you who I am voting for, the simple reason is, I am waiting for public meetings to take place. You know, in the days before Social media, we could question the candidates of the various Parties.

Three leaflets came through our letterbox today.

1 The Green Party.

Heading

THE GREENS HAVE A PLAN

Our Scottish Green New Deal would transform the economy, create hundreds of thousands of new jobs in green industries and slash emissions.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Are they going to give everybody a manual lawnmower? I am all for saving the planet, but until we know from the Green Party how they are going to develop the technology which would create hundreds of thousands of new jobs, they don’t get my vote.

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 1st Dec 2019, 12:16am

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 30th Nov 2019, 01:28pm) *
Danny, the Bookies think the Conservatives will have a majority of circa 50, they also reckon
the Gnats will get around 44 seats.

Hi Dykejumper

I haven’t forgotten you!

I keep thinking back to the night the Brexit results finally came in. I seem to recall that up until almost the last minute, the odds were on the UK remaining in the EU.

The one that really stands out is the night Neil Kinnock thought he had won the General Election. I clearly remember him raising his hand in triumph, shouting something like, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. He lost.

His punishment, and I seem to remember his wife being punished in the same way, was to be banished to the EU as a COMMISSIONER! The people who have the last say.

So it has dawned on me that Nicola Sturgeon, has her personal agenda.

Step 1. Become the first ever Prime Minister of Scotland, and will be remembered for ever In Scottish history.

Step 2 She fails to get that office even although Scotland does become Independent. She is appointed as an EU Commissioner for her services to Scotland.

Step3 She awakens from her dreams. Scotland got its Independence, but the EU rejected Scotland’s application for membership. The SNP didn’t win a majority in the first Scottish General Election. She is out of a job.

Don’t laugh. It could happen. If Scotland gets Independence, the SNP can’t survive if all they can come up with is blaming other people for what happened in the past.

Sorry Dykejumper, hope I haven’t kept you up late!


Regards

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 1st Dec 2019, 01:08pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 30th Nov 2019, 11:55pm) *
Jagz this is becoming a full time job for us.

I won’t tell you who I am voting for, the simple reason is, I am waiting for public meetings to take place. You know, in the days before Social media, we could question the candidates of the various Parties.

Three leaflets came through our letterbox today.

1 The Green Party.

Heading

THE GREENS HAVE A PLAN

Our Scottish Green New Deal would transform the economy, create hundreds of thousands of new jobs in green industries and slash emissions.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Are they going to give everybody a manual lawnmower? I am all for saving the planet, but until we know from the Green Party how they are going to develop the technology which would create hundreds of thousands of new jobs, they don’t get my vote.

Danny



What's becoming a full time job for us?

Yes i remember public meetings, when and where are they being held in your area?

So you won't be voting SNP, Lib Dem and now the Greens, so will you throw your vote away voting Labour, or are you honestly saying that you would seriously consider voting Tory?

Posted by: ashfield 1st Dec 2019, 01:12pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Dec 2019, 01:08pm) *
What's becoming a full time job for us?

Yes i remember public meetings, when and where are they being held in your area?

So you won't be voting SNP, Lib Dem and now the Greens, so will you throw your vote away voting Labour, or are you honestly saying that you would seriously consider voting Tory?


Don't forget there are other choices including the rebranded UKIP party that is the Brexit party rolleyes.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 1st Dec 2019, 03:13pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 1st Dec 2019, 01:12pm) *
Don't forget there are other choices including the rebranded UKIP party that is the Brexit party rolleyes.gif


I'm pretty sure even Danny wouldn't vote for them. unsure.gif

Posted by: DannyH 1st Dec 2019, 06:47pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Dec 2019, 01:08pm) *
What's becoming a full time job for us?

Yes i remember public meetings, when and where are they being held in your area?

So you won't be voting SNP, Lib Dem and now the Greens, so will you throw your vote away voting Labour, or are you honestly saying that you would seriously consider voting Tory?

Posting on this forum is becoming a full time job.

So far I have not seen any notification of proposed public meetings in my area.

Jagz, as far as I am concerned I would be throwing my vote away for any Party which doesn’t support the outcome of the EU referendum. The outcome of that referendum was a democratically achieved result.

I was made redundant by a Tory Government, so I have no love of them. I just want out of the EU, okay?
If we get out of the EU, then it is mission accomplished for me. Then we will get back to some sort of normality, and hopefully we can all get back to normality when it comes to General Elections. That is, we can stop resorting to tactical voting. I am not alone in doing this. I have seen a number of working class people, on TV, who were lifelong Labour supporters, but will vote Tory in this election.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 1st Dec 2019, 07:22pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 1st Dec 2019, 06:47pm) *
Posting on this forum is becoming a full time job.

So far I have not seen any notification of proposed public meetings in my area.

Jagz, as far as I am concerned I would be throwing my vote away for any Party which doesn’t support the outcome of the EU referendum. The outcome of that referendum was a democratically achieved result.

I was made redundant by a Tory Government, so I have no love of them. I just want out of the EU, okay?
If we get out of the EU, then it is mission accomplished for me. Then we will get back to some sort of normality, and hopefully we can all get back to normality when it comes to General Elections. That is, we can stop resorting to tactical voting. I am not alone in doing this. I have seen a number of working class people, on TV, who were lifelong Labour supporters, but will vote Tory in this election.

Danny


Take it easy if you think it's becoming a bit too much for you.

They're leaving it a bit late, the election is a week on Thursday.

Can't see you voting Labour as they don't know what their stand in Brexit is, so you were always going to vote Tory so no need to pretend you want to hear the candidates speak at the local hall anymore.

If you can vote for the party of greed austerity and the enemy of the poor, sick elderly and disabled then i honestly don't know how you can sleep at night?

Posted by: wombat 1st Dec 2019, 07:50pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 1st Dec 2019, 12:16am) *
Don’t laugh. It could happen. If Scotland gets Independence, the SNP can’t survive if all they can come up with is blaming other people for what happened in the past.

Danny


laugh.gif
next thing youll be telling us Britain was the worlds benefactor. laugh.gif



Posted by: DannyH 1st Dec 2019, 08:31pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 1st Dec 2019, 07:22pm) *
Take it easy if you think it's becoming a bit too much for you.

They're leaving it a bit late, the election is a week on Thursday.

Can't see you voting Labour as they don't know what their stand in Brexit is, so you were always going to vote Tory so no need to pretend you want to hear the candidates speak at the local hall anymore.

If you can vote for the party of greed austerity and the enemy of the poor, sick elderly and disabled then i honestly don't know how you can sleep at night?



Jagz, I will just respond to your closing statement above. It is sick! It is a clear indication that you are someone who cannot debate civilly. It is pointless trying to have a reasoned discussion with you. How low can you sink!

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 1st Dec 2019, 08:46pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 1st Dec 2019, 01:12pm) *
Don't forget there are other choices including the rebranded UKIP party that is the Brexit party :rolleyes:

Hi Ashfield

Yes there are. However when you vote tactically you don’t vote for a Party that has no chance of getting a majority of Parliamentary seats.

I thought this was supposed to be a democratic forum. It appears I was wrong. No point of contributing if you want to leave the EU.

Danny

Posted by: ashfield 2nd Dec 2019, 08:49am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 1st Dec 2019, 08:46pm) *
Hi Ashfield

Yes there are. However when you vote tactically you don’t vote for a Party that has no chance of getting a majority of Parliamentary seats.

I thought this was supposed to be a democratic forum. It appears I was wrong. No point of contributing if you want to leave the EU.

Danny


If leaving the EU is an election issue for you then there are no problems about contributing, plenty of problems if we want a straight answer to the negative Implications of such a thing happening. I've asked you about the forecasted hole in the UK finances (I've repeated this several times but you just do a body swerve), where is the trade deal to remotely rival that we have currently, who will fill the thousands of vacancies in the NHS, care sector, hospitality sector, food processors, what will happen to workers rights, what will happen to border security when we get thrown out of Europol and Eurojust. The EU has brought us, for the longest period ever, freedom from serious conflict and relative peace in Europe. What price do you put on that? The EU is not perfect, and there are immigration to address, but overall I believe the benefits of being in far outweigh those of leaving.

Yes, the country voted in (an advisory) referendum to leave but we were lied to by those who were, and still are, in a position of trust. If we were dealing with it as a review of a court case , the outcome would be described as "unsafe". The same thing happened during the Independence referendum. Just before the vote, on a bus in East Kilbride, I overheard an older woman saying she was voting against independence because her daughter told her she would lose her free bus pass. I will not give my vote to to any of these lying, self serving cheats.


Posted by: DannyH 2nd Dec 2019, 10:26am

QUOTE (ashfield @ 2nd Dec 2019, 08:49am) *
If leaving the EU is an election issue for you then there are no problems about contributing, plenty of problems if we want a straight answer to the negative Implications of such a thing happening. I've asked you about the forecasted hole in the UK finances (I've repeated this several times but you just do a body swerve), where is the trade deal to remotely rival that we have currently, who will fill the thousands of vacancies in the NHS, care sector, hospitality sector, food processors, what will happen to workers rights, what will happen to border security when we get thrown out of Europol and Eurojust. The EU has brought us, for the longest period ever, freedom from serious conflict and relative peace in Europe. What price do you put on that? The EU is not perfect, and there are immigration to address, but overall I believe the benefits of being in far outweigh those of leaving.

Yes, the country voted in (an advisory) referendum to leave but we were lied to by those who were, and still are, in a position of trust. If we were dealing with it as a review of a court case , the outcome would be described as "unsafe". The same thing happened during the Independence referendum. Just before the vote, on a bus in East Kilbride, I overheard an older woman saying she was voting against independence because her daughter told her she would lose her free bus pass. I will not give my vote to to any of these lying, self serving cheats.

Ashfield

Thank you, thank you, thank you. At last I have received a post which I consider to have been well thought out. Unfortunately I have a busy schedule all day today. It will probably be tomorrow before I can reply.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 2nd Dec 2019, 10:39am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 1st Dec 2019, 08:31pm) *
Jagz, I will just respond to your closing statement above. It is sick! It is a clear indication that you are someone who cannot debate civilly. It is pointless trying to have a reasoned discussion with you. How low can you sink!

Danny



Are you saying that i have lied and none of what i said was true, if so which part was false and how can you justify calling it "sick"?

Posted by: zascot 2nd Dec 2019, 12:25pm

Don`t worry Danny. my post in answer to Carmella was interpreted by jagz in his normal way which now explains a lot to me about the person,

Posted by: Dykejumper 2nd Dec 2019, 12:37pm

If the EU which has no army or common foreign policy,has brought peace to Europe what the
heck has NATO been doing for the last 70 years at enormous expense?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 2nd Dec 2019, 02:20pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 2nd Dec 2019, 12:25pm) *
Don`t worry Danny. my post in answer to Carmella was interpreted by jagz in his normal way which now explains a lot to me about the person,


What does it explain to you about me Zascot, and do you honestly believe that the SNP and their members are anti English?

Posted by: zascot 2nd Dec 2019, 02:36pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 2nd Dec 2019, 02:20pm) *
What does it explain to you about me Zascot, and do you honestly believe that the SNP and their members are anti English?

Did you honestly take my comment seriously, no one else did. I post an answer to Carmella in jest as anyone can see if they read it and get accused of racist comments by you, get a life.

Posted by: ashfield 2nd Dec 2019, 04:01pm

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 2nd Dec 2019, 12:37pm) *
If the EU which has no army or common foreign policy,has brought peace to Europe what the
heck has NATO been doing for the last 70 years at enormous expense?


Ok, I get it. You don't get it rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Dykejumper 2nd Dec 2019, 05:15pm

What I get is that people like you only remember 'lies' that suit your remainer viewpoint and forget the
guff spouted by Carney, Cameron and Osbourne.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 2nd Dec 2019, 05:16pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 2nd Dec 2019, 02:36pm) *
get a life.


Got one thanks.

How do you know that i wasn't having a joke? wink.gif

Posted by: ashfield 2nd Dec 2019, 06:05pm

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 2nd Dec 2019, 05:15pm) *
What I get is that people like you only remember 'lies' that suit your remainer viewpoint and forget the
guff spouted by Carney, Cameron and Osbourne.


Ok, so you tell us about it.

While you are at it, tell us why leaving will provide us with a better life than we have now. You stand at the side of the pitch, sniping away, when you don't have the courage to put up a reasoned argument on where you stand yes.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 2nd Dec 2019, 06:25pm

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 2nd Dec 2019, 05:15pm) *
What I get is that people like you only remember 'lies' that suit your remainer viewpoint and forget the
guff spouted by Carney, Cameron and Osbourne.


Didn't i say the exact same thing to you right after the 2014 referendum DJ? laugh.gif

Posted by: Dykejumper 3rd Dec 2019, 10:33am

There is no arguement reasoned or otherwise that would satisfy Gnat applause monkeys.The fact is that unless JC pulls off an election miracle we are leaving the EU and there will be no Indy2 in
2020,get used to it. A landslide SNP victory in 2021 is your best hope for a second referendum..

Posted by: JAGZ1876 3rd Dec 2019, 11:17am

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 3rd Dec 2019, 10:33am) *
There is no arguement reasoned or otherwise that would satisfy Gnat applause monkeys.


Well there certainly isn't for you and your ilk, you should be worrying more about being wiped out here on the 12th than indyref2. laugh.gif

Posted by: ashfield 3rd Dec 2019, 04:29pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Dec 2019, 11:17am) *
Well there certainly isn't for you and your ilk, you should be worrying more about being wiped out here on the 12th than indyref2. laugh.gif


So, is it true that our current PM's father is changing his name to Geppetto by deed poll rolleyes.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 3rd Dec 2019, 04:53pm

I no longer see the need for a second Brexit referendum. The Lib Dems and others tried to make it happen but failed honourably. I also question if the electorate could really stomach it. And have the opinion polls changed much anyway?

When hope of the so-called People's Vote vanished in a flurry of votes at the bitter end of the last Parliament, the Lib Dems bit the bullet by making it their policy to Revoke Brexit. Now, the choices in Scotland at next week's Brexit election are relatively simple. biggrin.gif

Remain - Lib Dems
Leave - Tories
Start over - Labour
Leave with no deal - Brexit
Indyref2 - SNP
Save the planet - Greens

Posted by: JAGZ1876 3rd Dec 2019, 07:02pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Dec 2019, 04:53pm) *
I no longer see the need for a second Brexit referendum. The Lib Dems and others tried to make it happen but failed honourably. I also question if the electorate could really stomach it. And have the opinion polls changed much anyway?

When hope of the so-called People's Vote vanished in a flurry of votes at the bitter end of the last Parliament, the Lib Dems bit the bullet by making it their policy to Revoke Brexit. Now, the choices in Scotland at next week's Brexit election are relatively simple. biggrin.gif

Remain - Lib Dems
Leave - Tories
Start over - Labour
Leave with no deal - Brexit
Indyref2 - SNP
Save the planet - Greens


Yes, we can all believe the LibDems promises, there is only one party that has been consistently "Remain" and will honour the will of the people of Scotland.

Vote SNP thumbup.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 3rd Dec 2019, 08:12pm

The SNP would back a Corbyn minority government in exchange for Indyref2 (circa 2022). That's at least two more referendums.

I say "at least" because, if Scotland changed its mind and voted Yes, would we face yet more referenda on possible deal/no-deal scenarios between Scotland and the UK and on whether an independent Scotland rejoins the EU as a fully-signed-up member (circa 2030)?

Posted by: carmella 3rd Dec 2019, 08:58pm

Scotland voted to remain in the UK. What do you do, keep having referenda till the SNP get the result they want. It’s done already, that ship has sailed!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 3rd Dec 2019, 09:31pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Dec 2019, 08:12pm) *
The SNP would back a Corbyn minority government in exchange for Indyref2 (circa 2022). That's at least two more referendums.

I say "at least" because, if Scotland changed its mind and voted Yes, would we face yet more referenda on possible deal/no-deal scenarios between Scotland and the UK and on whether an independent Scotland rejoins the EU as a fully-signed-up member (circa 2030)?


You certainly have some imagination i'll give you that Kem. wink.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 3rd Dec 2019, 09:42pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 3rd Dec 2019, 08:58pm) *
Scotland voted to remain in the UK. What do you do, keep having referenda till the SNP get the result they want. It’s done already, that ship has sailed!


Democracy is fluid Carmella, people can change their minds, in fact your temporary party branch manager Jackson Carlaw has just said he'd voted remain in 2016 but has since changed his mind and is now a Leave supporter, so if he can change his mind why can't others who now realise they'd been duped in 2014?

You may feel that ship has sailed, but it's sinking fast but luckily Scotland has a lifeboat ready to launch.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 3rd Dec 2019, 09:47pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Nov 2019, 02:15pm) *
I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the SNP in the forthcoming general election.

Danny.


I thought you'd have asked other members who'll be voting for different parties the same question by now Danny? unsure.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 3rd Dec 2019, 10:37pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 3rd Dec 2019, 09:31pm) *
You certainly have some imagination i'll give you that Kem. wink.gif

As I keep telling you, Jagz, you and your Party can no longer get away with just the sweet talking. After three years of 'leaving' the EU, we are all a little more educated in the complexities of such a difficult set of challenges. There is an alternative narrative, a more realistic one, to the bells-and-whistles story fed to us by the SNP.

You believe the dream will never die. Some would consider it a nightmare. Imagination is key to victory in the battle, for both sides, when so little is certain.

Posted by: DannyH 4th Dec 2019, 12:37am

Hi Ashfield, I am back to try and give you some answers to your post #47, dated 3Dec.
There are quite a number of issues you have raised, so it will take a number of posts from me to try and respond to them all. Please don’t think I am being antagonist. My response to your following claim is partly based on personal experiences, and partly opinion based on how I perceived what happened.

You said, “The EU has brought us the longest period ever, freedom from serious conflict and relative piece in Europe. What price do you put on that?

The price some of my generation paid, was their life. Some during training exercises, some killed by local terrorists, or a small number were murdered by German civilians during the night while they were on guard duty. The guard would be patrolling outside the barrack gate alone, armed to the teeth with a stick! I know that from personal experience. I was taken in a jeep in the dark to the middle of nowhere, dumped outside a depot filled with supplies, handed a stick and told to be ready to be picked up two hours later. So that was part of the peace process prior to the EU coming on the scene.

One major factor in relative peace coming to Europe, was the Russian change of attitude under Michail Gorbachev, the Russian President. Hence the reason why the Berlin Wall came down. Nothing to do with the EU. Ronald Reagan had said to him, in effect, If you want to improve our relationship, get that wall down. So the wall came down, claimed as a German victory. Nothing to do with the EU.

I was also based in West Berlin for most of my National Service. I can tell you that the Allied forces in Berlin would have been lucky to have survived for more than 24 hours if the Russians had decided to turn the cold War into a Hot one. The British had troops based in Berlin up to about 1990.

The NATO troops played a big role in Europe’s security for many years after the war and still do.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 4th Dec 2019, 09:05am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 3rd Dec 2019, 10:37pm) *
You believe the dream will never die. Some would consider it a nightmare. Imagination is key to victory in the battle, for both sides, when so little is certain.


What dream?

The only "nightmare" will be a Scotland in a post Brexit UK.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 4th Dec 2019, 09:19am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 4th Dec 2019, 12:37am) *
Hi Ashfield, I am back to try and give you some answers to your post #47, dated 3Dec.
There are quite a number of issues you have raised, so it will take a number of posts from me to try and respond to them all. Please don’t think I am being antagonist. My response to your following claim is partly based on personal experiences, and partly opinion based on how I perceived what happened.

You said, “The EU has brought us the longest period ever, freedom from serious conflict and relative piece in Europe. What price do you put on that?

The price some of my generation paid, was their life. Some during training exercises, some killed by local terrorists, or a small number were murdered by German civilians during the night while they were on guard duty. The guard would be patrolling outside the barrack gate alone, armed to the teeth with a stick! I know that from personal experience. I was taken in a jeep in the dark to the middle of nowhere, dumped outside a depot filled with supplies, handed a stick and told to be ready to be picked up two hours later. So that was part of the peace process prior to the EU coming on the scene.

One major factor in relative peace coming to Europe, was the Russian change of attitude under Michail Gorbachev, the Russian President. Hence the reason why the Berlin Wall came down. Nothing to do with the EU. Ronald Reagan had said to him, in effect, If you want to improve our relationship, get that wall down. So the wall came down, claimed as a German victory. Nothing to do with the EU.

I was also based in West Berlin for most of my National Service. I can tell you that the Allied forces in Berlin would have been lucky to have survived for more than 24 hours if the Russians had decided to turn the cold War into a Hot one. The British had troops based in Berlin up to about 1990.

The NATO troops played a big role in Europe’s security for many years after the war and still do.

Danny


It was only five days ago you berated me for replying to a member who had gone off topic.

"Jagz how about submitting a post relevant to the topic. I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the SNP in the forthcoming general election. At least you would be addressing the issue. So come on, get on your soap box and let’s hear it. That’s why I started this topic"

And yet here you are going off topic big style, so how about submitting a post relevant to the topic, I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for anyone but the SNP in the forthcoming general election, so come on, get on your soap box and let’s hear it, that’s why you started this topic after all. wink.gif

Posted by: DannyH 4th Dec 2019, 09:29am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 4th Dec 2019, 09:19am) *
It was only five days ago you berated me for replying to a member who had gone off topic.

"Jagz how about submitting a post relevant to the topic. I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the SNP in the forthcoming general election. At least you would be addressing the issue. So come on, get on your soap box and let’s hear it. That’s why I started this topic"

And yet here you are going off topic big style, so how about submitting a post relevant to the topic, I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for anyone but the SNP in the forthcoming general election, so come on, get on your soap box and let’s hear it, that’s why you started this topic after all. ;)

Jagz, I don’t know how to respond to your post, because I am genuinely embarrassed for you. I will leave it at that.

Danny

Posted by: Kemedian 4th Dec 2019, 09:37am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 4th Dec 2019, 09:05am) *
What dream?

The only "nightmare" will be a Scotland in a post Brexit UK.

There are some who also dream of Brexit.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 4th Dec 2019, 11:01am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 4th Dec 2019, 09:37am) *
There are some who also dream of Brexit.


You and Danny are masters of avoiding answering questions. yes.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 4th Dec 2019, 11:03am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 4th Dec 2019, 09:29am) *
Jagz, I don’t know how to respond to your post, because I am genuinely embarrassed for you. I will leave it at that.

Danny


Well the only thing you should be embarrassed about Danny is not sticking to the topic you started and being unable to answer questions you ask others. wink.gif

Posted by: carmella 4th Dec 2019, 07:00pm

Jagz you’re right people can change their mind. I can’t speak for others of course, but I certainly wasn’t duped. If voting again mine would be exactly the same!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 4th Dec 2019, 10:26pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 4th Dec 2019, 07:00pm) *
Jagz you’re right people can change their mind. I can’t speak for others of course, but I certainly wasn’t duped. If voting again mine would be exactly the same!


Carmella, you're a Tory, of course your mind won't change, it's the ones between us i'm trying to change.

Perhaps you can do what Danny asked me to do (and i did) and answer this question, "I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the Tory party in the forthcoming general election?"

You've been a party member for almost fifty years, i'm sure you'll have a lot of good reasons why we should vote for the Conservative And Unionist Party Carmella? unsure.gif

Posted by: DannyH 4th Dec 2019, 11:52pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 4th Dec 2019, 10:26pm) *
Carmella, you're a Tory, of course your mind won't change, it's the ones between us i'm trying to change.

Perhaps you can do what Danny asked me to do (and i did) and answer this question, "I genuinely would like to hear your views on why we should vote for the Tory party in the forthcoming general election?"

You've been a party member for almost fifty years, i'm sure you'll have a lot of good reasons why we should vote for the Conservative And Unionist Party Carmella? :unsure:

Hi Jagz

I am currently working on another stage of my reply to Ashfield. However, I was stopped in my tracks when I read your above post. Did I actually ask you for your views on why we should vote for the Tory party in the forthcoming election? I know my intention was to ask you why we should vote for the SNP! I am feeling a bit tensed up now, so break it to me gently. Which post # did I drop the clanger.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 12:04am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 4th Dec 2019, 11:52pm) *
Hi Jagz

I am currently working on another stage of my reply to Ashfield. However, I was stopped in my tracks when I read your above post. Did I actually ask you for your views on why we should vote for the Tory party in the forthcoming election? I know my intention was to ask you why we should vote for the SNP! I am feeling a bit tensed up now, so break it to me gently. Which post # did I drop the clanger.

Danny


No Danny, you asked me why you and others should vote for the SNP of which i answered, now i asked Carmella the same question you asked me, the same question you refuse to answer, but i'm pretty sure Carmella will have no problem answering as she has the courage of her convictions that you do not.

Posted by: DannyH 5th Dec 2019, 12:24am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 5th Dec 2019, 12:04am) *
No Danny, you asked me why you and others should vote for the SNP of which i answered, now i asked Carmella the same question you asked me, the same question you refuse to answer, but i'm pretty sure Carmella will have no problem answering as she has the courage of her convictions that you do not.

Jagz this is not acceptable. You cannot put quotation marks around a statement which you wrote, then attribute those words to me. I shall be contacting Martin in the morning, and ask him for his view on this matter.

Why are you dragging Carmella into this? From the tone of your last two posts, and given how late it is in the evening, (or how early it is in the morning), I have a suspicion that you are under the influence of alcohol.

Very recently you edited one of my posts, and added a statement, giving the impression I wrote that statement. I accepted your apology. It looks like I was wrong in doing so.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 10:20am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 5th Dec 2019, 12:24am) *
Jagz this is not acceptable. You cannot put quotation marks around a statement which you wrote, then attribute those words to me. I shall be contacting Martin in the morning, and ask him for his view on this matter.

Why are you dragging Carmella into this? From the tone of your last two posts, and given how late it is in the evening, (or how early it is in the morning), I have a suspicion that you are under the influence of alcohol.

Very recently you edited one of my posts, and added a statement, giving the impression I wrote that statement. I accepted your apology. It looks like I was wrong in doing so.

Danny


How is asking Carmella the same question you asked me unacceptable?

You have a cheek accusing me of being drunk.

Have you attended any public meetings yet?

Posted by: DannyH 5th Dec 2019, 11:42am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 5th Dec 2019, 10:20am) *
How is asking Carmella the same question you asked me unacceptable?

You have a cheek accusing me of being drunk.

Have you attended any public meetings yet?

Jagz, I will ignore your first two sentences above, until I have attended to another issue.

Yes I have attend a meeting every month, usually with an attendance of 200 adults over the age of 55.
I was invited to give a talk to them two months ago. As a direct result of how my talk was received, I have been approached by another organisation, to give a talk to members of their Senior Citizens Club. I was flattered to have been invited, and will do so early next year.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 11:46am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 5th Dec 2019, 11:42am) *
Jagz, I will ignore your first two sentences above, until I have attended to another issue.

Yes

I have attend a meeting every month, usually with an attendance of 200 adults over the age of 55.
I was invited to give a talk to them two months ago. As a direct result of how my talk was received, I have been approached by another organisation, to give a talk to members of their Senior Citizens Club. I was flattered to have been invited, and will do so early next year.

Danny

Glad to hear that your in demand Danny, but as you know the topic of this thread is the upcoming election and that was the meetings i was referring to, as you said you want to hear what the candidates have to say before deciding who to vote for.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 04:53pm

I wonder if DJ will start referring to his dear leader as the 'selfie King'? wink.gif

https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1202595454908862464

Posted by: carmella 5th Dec 2019, 05:55pm

Jagz I like the Tories, a lot of what they stand for, I stand for and agree with. I think there are some idiots in the party, or people who are disingenuous, but I also think the same across all the parties.

We don’t all agree, across the board with what our respective parties stand for or even what they say. I don’t think most politicians actually believe what they say a great deal of the time. Furthermore, would you not like to be a fly on the wall during private discussions around their living rooms or dining tables to see and hear? I certainly would.

My best all round answer is that i disagree with almost all of what the other parties stand for or preach, hence my reason originally for joining in the first place. Also for their stance on law and order. But, currently because of brexit. I want the UK to be responsible for their own laws and I want no more open borders, on the latter I will never change.

People have been making their home in the UK many years before I and my parents were born, but not simply by leaving the land of their birth and just walking or driving here. They applied to come. These are decent hard working people.

We have serious criminals here who were simply able to enter the UK based on lies whenever questioned. We have had murderers who only came to light because they entered the UK unknown, and illegally until they murdered again.

We need workers, nurses and doctors from the EU over here because we will, and have had such a shortfall within our own people. These people will still be needed and welcomed. We do not need to remain inthe EU for this to happen.

Since this thread is principally about the 2019 general election. I have had my say in a fairly comprehensive way.

Posted by: Dykejumper 5th Dec 2019, 06:37pm

Mr Murray is an interesting character,not many men leave their wife for a Belly Dancer lol
Claims to be a human rights activist yet supports a man sacked by the SNP for anti-semitism.
PS BJ has been called a lot worse than Selfie King.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 06:41pm

rolleyes.gif Thanks for answering my question Carmella, i knew you would, i think the Tory party would be far better if they were more like you, and you're right about the other parties who have "people who are disingenuous", however i think they are going to get a good doing here though they will win comfortably in England.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 06:50pm

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 5th Dec 2019, 06:37pm) *
Mr Murray is an interesting character,not many men leave their wife for a Belly Dancer lol
Claims to be a human rights activist yet supports a man sacked by the SNP for anti-semitism.
PS BJ has been called a lot worse than Selfie King.


And what has his personal life got to do with anything?

We'd be here all night discussing Johnsons personal life if we were to go down that road. yes.gif

Posted by: Dykejumper 5th Dec 2019, 07:11pm

You posted a link to Murray so he becomes part of the thread.Can I presume you also support
the alledged anti-semite standing in Kirkcaldy?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 5th Dec 2019, 08:12pm

QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 5th Dec 2019, 07:11pm) *
You posted a link to Murray so he becomes part of the thread.Can I presume you also support
the alledged anti-semite standing in Kirkcaldy?


You're playing the man not the ball, and i don't support nor have any opinion on the goings on in Kirkcaldy so you presume wrong.

Posted by: DannyH 6th Dec 2019, 11:04am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 5th Dec 2019, 10:20am) *
How is asking Carmella the same question you asked me unacceptable?

You have a cheek accusing me of being drunk.

Have you attended any public meetings yet?

Jagz, I don’t know how to get through to you. I didn’t write the question that you asked Carmella.
YOU wrote it, then attributed it to me! So as far as I am concerned you you have no credibility.


Danny

Posted by: DannyH 6th Dec 2019, 11:13am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 5th Dec 2019, 11:46am) *
Glad to hear that your in demand Danny, but as you know the topic of this thread is the upcoming election and that was the meetings i was referring to, as you said you want to hear what the candidates have to say before deciding who to vote for.


Jagz

You were being facetious when you posed the question, asking me if I had been to any meetings. So my reply was facetious. If any of the political Parties hold a meeting, in my area, I will attend. I have a number of questions to ask.

Danny

Posted by: DannyH 6th Dec 2019, 11:33am

Hi Ashfield, I am back again to respond to one of the questions you asked in your post #47, on 3Dec.

You asked,

Who will fill the thousands of vacancies in the NHS, the Care sector, hospitality sector, food processors?

My answer to that is UK will do what Canada, Australia and other Commonwealth countries did in the 1960’s. We have a form of controlled immigration schemes like they had in the 1960’s.

That era was referred to as the ‘Brain Drain’, because these countries required skilled people. There must be a few people who come on this Forum, even if it is only out of curiosity, who emigrated from the UK in the 1960’s.

I note you do not include manufacturing on your list of priorities. That is not a criticism by the way. It is a reality faced by working class people in the UK.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 6th Dec 2019, 01:11pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 6th Dec 2019, 11:04am) *
Jagz, I don’t know how to get through to you. I didn’t write the question that you asked Carmella.
YOU wrote it, then attributed it to me! So as far as I am concerned you you have no credibility.


Danny



I could hardly as Carmella to give her reasons on why we should be voting for the SNP now, could i?

Talking of "credibility" Danny, can you tell us yet who you'll be voting for and why?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 6th Dec 2019, 01:13pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 6th Dec 2019, 11:13am) *
Jagz

If any of the political Parties hold a meeting, in my area, I will attend. I have a number of questions to ask.

Danny


They'd better get a move on, only six days left.

Posted by: ashfield 6th Dec 2019, 06:13pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 6th Dec 2019, 11:33am) *
Hi Ashfield, I am back again to respond to one of the questions you asked in your post #47, on 3Dec.

You asked,

Who will fill the thousands of vacancies in the NHS, the Care sector, hospitality sector, food processors?

My answer to that is UK will do what Canada, Australia and other Commonwealth countries did in the 1960’s. We have a form of controlled immigration schemes like they had in the 1960’s.

That era was referred to as the ‘Brain Drain’, because these countries required skilled people. There must be a few people who come on this Forum, even if it is only out of curiosity, who emigrated from the UK in the 1960’s.

I note you do not include manufacturing on your list of priorities. That is not a criticism by the way. It is a reality faced by working class people in the UK.

Regards

Danny


What you suggest is entirely possible, but I would question how a country that has made foreigners unwelcome will attract the numbers we need. There are currently, in England and Scotland alone, in excess of 47000 (no, I've not added too many 0's) of nursing vacancies in the NHS. That's before we consider the numbers of Consultant, Radiographer, Occupational Therapist, Physiotherapist, pharmacist etc vacancies. Those working within the EU are likely to stay there as they will have fewer hurdles to cross to get work. The number of vacancies has risen sharply si since the referendum result as qualified staff have voted with their feet, leaving before they get thrown out. I think there is no chance of a repairing the damage to our countries reputation if we leave the EU.

Posted by: DannyH 6th Dec 2019, 07:28pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 6th Dec 2019, 06:13pm) *
What you suggest is entirely possible, but I would question how a country that has made foreigners unwelcome will attract the numbers we need. There are currently, in England and Scotland alone, in excess of 47000 (no, I've not added too many 0's) of nursing vacancies in the NHS. That's before we consider the numbers of Consultant, Radiographer, Occupational Therapist, Physiotherapist, pharmacist etc vacancies. Those working within the EU are likely to stay there as they will have fewer hurdles to cross to get work. The number of vacancies has risen sharply si since the referendum result as qualified staff have voted with their feet, leaving before they get thrown out. I think there is no chance of a repairing the damage to our countries reputation if we leave the EU.

Hi Ashfield,

Thank you for your civilised and polite response. So I hope this reply of mine will be considered to be the same by you.

You are of the opinion that those working in the EU are likely to stay there as there will be fewer hurdles to cross. My own opinion of that issue is that at this present moment in time, you are absolutely correct. The UK is in a state of flux.

My own feeling is that no matter what the result of this General Election is, there is still going to be unrest in the UK. If the Leavers win, I think the politicians at Westminster will do everything in their power to obstruct any progress towards us leaving the EU.

The impression you are giving me is that qualified staff will be thrown out of the UK if we leave the EU.
Prior to proceeding, l want to give you two examples.

Going by memory, I am sure you posted that you had been on a bus, and overheard an elderly lady staying that she had been told by a relative that if she voted for Independence? She would lose her free bus pass.

I employ a young Polish neighbour to do gardening, and house maintenance work for me. He has his own small business, renovating larger houses. He currently lives in a rented flat. Last week he told me he would be moving in a few weeks time. He and his Polish female partner had just taken out a mortgage on a mid terraced, three bedrooms property.

The point I am trying to make is that in times like this, the term ‘we were lied to’ is used very often.
I find it strange that people like Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, John Major etc who were all against Scotland’s Independence (which I voted for), were accused of telling lies after the Scottish referendum result was announced. Now these same people are standing on the same platform as their former accusers, e.g. the SNP in a bid to keep us out of Europe.

I find this term ‘lied to’ as being very insulting to people who voted with the majority.


Getting back to your post, I would like to finish by commenting on your opinion that you think there is no chance of repairing the damage to our countries reputation if we leave the EU.

The question I ask myself is why does anyone want to leave the country of their birth?

I would suggest that they feel that their family could have a better life. So they are comparing what they have in they own country to what they possibly could get in another country. So if the UK does leave the EU, the EU skilled citizens will still come here if their overall lifestyle at home is poorer.

Danny


Posted by: JAGZ1876 6th Dec 2019, 07:31pm

So we're a "Principality" now?

"There are 59 parliamentary constituencies in the principality"

http://archive.is/I0SrI

Come on now Carmella, surely Mr Hill's ignorance must rile even you? wink.gif

Posted by: zascot 7th Dec 2019, 09:37am

I have listened to a lot of the debates and read extensively on the different aspects and views on the election and got to thinking who I would vote for if I lived in England or Scotland. I have come to the conclusion, after quite a bit of discussion with business people in both England and Scotland and family in UK and views from UK people over here that the Conservatives would get my vote. I think if labour had a better leader it would be closer.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 7th Dec 2019, 11:39am

QUOTE (zascot @ 7th Dec 2019, 09:37am) *
I have listened to a lot of the debates and read extensively on the different aspects and views on the election and got to thinking who I would vote for if I lived in England or Scotland. I have come to the conclusion, after quite a bit of discussion with business people in both England and Scotland and family in UK and views from UK people over here that the Conservatives would get my vote. I think if labour had a better leader it would be closer.


You're being very selective to which businesses you've spoken to, and did you ask the business you were having a meeting with a week or two ago if they were still going to be "happy with the existing system" even if it means being ripped out of the EU?

Posted by: zascot 7th Dec 2019, 01:09pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 7th Dec 2019, 11:39am) *
You're being very selective to which businesses you've spoken to, and did you ask the business you were having a meeting with a week or two ago if they were still going to be "happy with the existing system" even if it means being ripped out of the EU?

Yes I did.

Posted by: DannyH 7th Dec 2019, 01:39pm

Hello Ashfield

I am back again to continue my reply to your post #47, dated 2 Dec.

One of the questions you asked was, “Where is the trade deal to remotely rival that we currently have.

According to researchbriefings.parliament.uk, the UK has a trading deficit of 22.1 billion with China.
The same source cites the UK having a trade deficit with the EU of 66 billion.

Both of these figures refer to 2018.


According to seekingalpha.com, the EU trade deficit with China in July 2019 was 120.9 billion dollars.

So, I am puzzled by the claim (not yours) that the EU is the worlds biggest ‘trading bloc’. I don’t know what that means. It implies that ‘big’ means success. The Chinese must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Danny

Posted by: ashfield 8th Dec 2019, 01:35pm

Danny, in your post (98) you say the you think the term "lies to" insulting to those who voted with the majority. I'm a bit puzzled by why you should find it so. The reality is that the electorate were deliberately misled by claims and counterclaims in the run up to both of the referendums. Even now, the Artful Dodger (avoiding the scrutiny of Andrew Neil) not just lies, he shamelessly lies. He claimed they would build 40 hospitals, lies, he said there would be no border between NI and Britain, lies, he said Labour would spend 1.2 trillion, lies, lies, lies. Meanwhile, the Tory chair, Cleverly (was ever a guy more misnamed) said a doctored video they released of Starmer looking like he couldn't answer questions, was just a joke! Unfortunately there are many of the electorate who will fall for the dirty trick brigade.

I assume your paragraph about the Polish man was to illustrate that some folk who come here will stay. You are of course correct. All I can tell you is the NHS has lost thousands of overseas employees on each of the years since the vote was taken to leave the EU. People with skills have options, clearly they have voted with their feet and we are the losers.

On a separate, but connected issue, I have to laugh at those who talk of the EU as being ruled by an enelected body. Someone should perhaps let them know that the WTO is run by............wait for it.......individuals nominated by the countries involved. That's right, an unelected body except there is none of the political scrutiny or power of veto that exists in the EU.

Posted by: bilbo.s 8th Dec 2019, 04:34pm

https://election2k19.home.blog/2019/12/07/conservatives-2019-general-election/?fbclid=IwAR3hh_a9Z_KsBkhBaHnEnTTpB5Q9g0u_A994NJrkGQSXQl7ig7yUnpgp-Tk


A long read. I don't know why I am posting it, as I don't suppose any of the Tories on here will read it.

Posted by: carmella 8th Dec 2019, 05:20pm

Everyone talks a fine talk about shortfalls here, and shortfalls there due to Conservative austerity etc., what you think prior to 9 years ago none of this existed, oh I don’t think so.

Cast your mind back.

I have already voted, so let’s hope the right Party is soon installed within 10 Downing Street!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 8th Dec 2019, 05:21pm

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 8th Dec 2019, 04:34pm) *
https://election2k19.home.blog/2019/12/07/conservatives-2019-general-election/?fbclid=IwAR3hh_a9Z_KsBkhBaHnEnTTpB5Q9g0u_A994NJrkGQSXQl7ig7yUnpgp-Tk


A long read. I don't know why I am posting it, as I don't suppose any of the Tories on here will read it.



Good post, and it reinforces what most of us in Scotland have known for years.

Never trust a Tory. yes.gif

Posted by: bilbo.s 8th Dec 2019, 05:26pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 8th Dec 2019, 07:20pm) *
Everyone talks a fine talk about shortfalls here, and shortfalls there due to Conservative austerity etc., what you think prior to 9 years ago none of this existed, oh I don’t think so.

Cast your mind back.

I have already voted, so let’s hope the right Party is soon installed within 10 Downing Street!





The right party in 10 Downing Street? Rachman lives! tongue.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 8th Dec 2019, 05:29pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 8th Dec 2019, 05:20pm) *
Everyone talks a fine talk about shortfalls here, and shortfalls there due to Conservative austerity etc., what you think prior to 9 years ago none of this existed, oh I don’t think so.

Cast your mind back.

I have already voted, so let’s hope the right Party is soon installed within 10 Downing Street!


Successive Westminster governments have failed not just Scotland but most of the UK too.

Sadly the Tory's will win in England yet again, so in my opinion the Far Right party will be installed. sad.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 8th Dec 2019, 05:39pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 7th Dec 2019, 01:09pm) *
Yes I did.


So are they no longer happy that the "the existing system" will no longer exist when we are ripped out of the EU?

Posted by: wombat 8th Dec 2019, 06:20pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 8th Dec 2019, 05:29pm) *
Successive Westminster governments have failed not just Scotland but most of the UK too.

Sadly the Tory's will win in England yet again, so in my opinion the Far Right party will be installed. sad.gif


rolleyes.gif
oh dear!DUPED again laugh.gif

Posted by: wombat 8th Dec 2019, 06:28pm

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 8th Dec 2019, 06:26pm) *
The right party in 10 Downing Street? Rachman lives! tongue.gif



tongue.gif

Posted by: DannyH 8th Dec 2019, 10:00pm

Hello Ash

Just had look at your post #104, part of which read,

On a separate but connected issue, I have to laugh at those who talk of the EU being ruled by an unelected body. Someone should perhaps let them know that the WTO is run ——-wait for it ———
individuals nominated by the countries involved. That’s right, an unelected body except there is none of the scrutiny or power of veto that exists in the EU
———————————————— —————————————————————————————————

So Ash, I went looking for verification of your opinion. It turns out there are major differences between the EU and the World Trade Organisation.

1. The World Trade Organisation meets up every two years. The EU Commission meets up every week.
I think there is a different level of importance’s!

So I went hunting on Google and posed the question,

Are Government officials involved in the decision making of the World Trade Organisation?

Then I went on to the WTO website, www.wto.org, which stated,

The WTO is run by member governments. All major decisions are made by the membership as a whole, either by ministers (who meet at least every two years) or by their ambassadors or delegates (who meet regularly).

I think the WTO will be the last thing on the mind of the UK electorate.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 9th Dec 2019, 10:33am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 8th Dec 2019, 10:00pm) *
I think the WTO will be the last thing on the mind of the UK electorate.

Danny


Exactly, so stop banging on about it then. laugh.gif

Posted by: ashfield 9th Dec 2019, 03:08pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 9th Dec 2019, 10:33am) *
Exactly, so stop banging on about it then. laugh.gif


Actually it was me JAGZ. The reason I raised was because of the number of times it has been mentioned by members of the public as a trading solution if we leave the EU. The point I was making is that they proposing an arrangement that offers less rather than more governance and control.

Posted by: Kemedian 9th Dec 2019, 05:03pm

Any of these first four outcomes could unfold for Scotland in the next 5 years. Thursday's vote is the latest in what will amount to the many that shall shape our future. I have ranked them in order of personal preference:



I think everybody's first choice is easy. However, it's the second choice that is the most interesting. I wonder if any of you would be bold enough to hypothesize your own such wish list? smile.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 9th Dec 2019, 05:17pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 9th Dec 2019, 03:08pm) *
Actually it was me JAGZ. The reason I raised was because of the number of times it has been mentioned by members of the public as a trading solution if we leave the EU. The point I was making is that they proposing an arrangement that offers less rather than more governance and control.



I know it was Ash, but Danny was quick to pull me up for replying to an off topic post from Zascot. wink.gif

Posted by: ashfield 9th Dec 2019, 05:56pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 05:03pm) *
Any of these first four outcomes could unfold for Scotland in the next 5 years. Thursday's vote is the latest in what will amount to the many that shall shape our future. I have ranked them in order of personal preference:

    1. Remain in the UK. Remain in the EU
    2. Remain in the UK. Leave the EU
    3. Leave the UK. Remain in the EU
    4. Leave the UK. Leave the EU
    5. Move to the moon


I think everybody's first choice is easy. However, it's the second choice that is the most interesting. I wonder if any of you would be bold enough to hypothesize your own such wish list? smile.gif


If we're getting a choice then I would like to see you going to the moon and taking the space cadets leading the Tories, Labout and Lib Dems with you yes.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 9th Dec 2019, 07:14pm

I'd happily go, Ash.

Given that we don't always get what we wish for, which in this context could leave Scotland in a variety of predicaments; hypothetically speaking, what would be your compromise/plan B/next best (call it what you will) 2nd choice?

Are you pragmatic enough to have one, and bold enough to state it?

Posted by: ashfield 9th Dec 2019, 07:20pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 07:14pm) *
I'd happily go, Ash.

Given that we don't always get what we wish for, which in this context could leave Scotland in a variety of predicaments; hypothetically speaking, what would be your compromise/plan B/next best (call it what you will) 2nd choice?

Are you pragmatic enough to have one, and bold enough to state it?


No

Posted by: Kemedian 9th Dec 2019, 08:34pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 9th Dec 2019, 07:20pm) *
No

So it's win or bust for you...



Posted by: wombat 9th Dec 2019, 09:07pm

rolleyes.gif

 

Posted by: JAGZ1876 9th Dec 2019, 09:43pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 05:03pm) *
Any of these first four outcomes could unfold for Scotland in the next 5 years. Thursday's vote is the latest in what will amount to the many that shall shape our future. I have ranked them in order of personal preference:

    1. Remain in the UK. Remain in the EU
    2. Remain in the UK. Leave the EU
    3. Leave the UK. Remain in the EU
    4. Leave the UK. Leave the EU
    5. Move to the moon


I think everybody's first choice is easy. However, it's the second choice that is the most interesting. I wonder if any of you would be bold enough to hypothesize your own such wish list? smile.gif



3 for me, my second choice would be 5 for you and Jo Swinson. laugh.gif

I win either way. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 9th Dec 2019, 11:22pm

I'm not surprised. rolleyes.gif

Bait a Scottish Nationalist to think outside of Plan A and... and... and they can't. unsure.gif

Posted by: zascot 10th Dec 2019, 05:07am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 06:03pm) *
Any of these first four outcomes could unfold for Scotland in the next 5 years. Thursday's vote is the latest in what will amount to the many that shall shape our future. I have ranked them in order of personal preference:

    1. Remain in the UK. Remain in the EU
    2. Remain in the UK. Leave the EU
    3. Leave the UK. Remain in the EU
    4. Leave the UK. Leave the EU
    5. Move to the moon


I think everybody's first choice is easy. However, it's the second choice that is the most interesting. I wonder if any of you would be bold enough to hypothesize your own such wish list? smile.gif


Kemidian I don`t live there, if I did I reckon my choice would be 2,1,5,3,4. I think 3 and 4 would be a disaster. No doubt I will be asked to explain my choice but its pointless as any answers given are misinterpreted to suit others point of view.

Posted by: ashfield 10th Dec 2019, 08:47am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 07:14pm) *
I'd happily go, Ash.

Given that we don't always get what we wish for, which in this context could leave Scotland in a variety of predicaments; hypothetically speaking, what would be your compromise/plan B/next best (call it what you will) 2nd choice?

Are you pragmatic enough to have one, and bold enough to state it?


Ok, hold on to your hat. Those of a nervous disposition should look away now.

I'm a realist so the most likely outcome as we speak is a working majority for the Tories, so it will a return to Downing St for Dominic Cummings racist, sexist, homophobic lying puppet. He I'll be joined by the toad of toad hall, Gove and all of the arch right wingers that have been kept from public view during the election debates. We will leave the EU with undue haste so Johnson can say he did what he said he would. I fully expect the move, by them, towards a totalitarian state (check the manifesto pledge to review the link between government and judiciary). We will also see trade union rights attacked and workers losing hard fought rights.

That will leave the UK nicely open for business with the US, Russian, Chinese and Indian billionaires, waiting in the wings to plunder what's left of our profitable trade. Let's see, for instance, how long it takes for "Scotch whisky" to lose its regional status. Sadly, Johnson has very little to sell off because the last right wing government sold our Gas, Electricity and Water utilities, BT, rail services, bus services, technology services (selling the family silver said Harold Macmillan) so I guess he has to look elsewhere. It was revealed this week that UK patient data has been sold to US pharmaceutical companies. Whatever would they want that rolleyes.gif I also think that a return to conflict in Ireland is inevitable.

Meanwhile, if Corbyn and Swinson have the good sense to realise they are out of their depth and "move on", there may be a chance of a more credible opposition in 5 years time. Although I suspect the prospective government have plans to change the rules on party funding and membership making life more difficult opposition parties.

So there we have it, the rich will get richer and guess who will pay for it.

My only hope is that the SNP get the kind of support they need to fend off the Westminster thugs (and I'm sorry about those in England who will have no choice but to live with it)

Posted by: JAGZ1876 10th Dec 2019, 09:47am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 9th Dec 2019, 11:22pm) *
I'm not surprised. rolleyes.gif

Bait a Scottish Nationalist to think outside of Plan A and... and... and they can't. unsure.gif


Yes, unlike you British Nationalists that don't even have a plan A. laugh.gif

I'd love to see you telling a Dane, Belgian, Finn or any other person from a normal independent European country that running your own affairs rather than letting their larger neighbouring country do it for them that they're living "A dream you can't escape", and they'd laugh at you louder than we do Kem. laugh.gif

Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 10:22am

QUOTE (ashfield @ 10th Dec 2019, 08:47am) *
Ok, hold on to your hat. Those of a nervous disposition should look away now.

I'm a realist so the most likely outcome as we speak is a working majority for the Tories, so it will a return to Downing St for Dominic Cummings racist, sexist, homophobic lying puppet. He I'll be joined by the toad of toad hall, Gove and all of the arch right wingers that have been kept from public view during the election debates. We will leave the EU with undue haste so Johnson can say he did what he said he would. I fully expect the move, by them, towards a totalitarian state (check the manifesto pledge to review the link between government and judiciary). We will also see trade union rights attacked and workers losing hard fought rights.

That will leave the UK nicely open for business with the US, Russian, Chinese and Indian billionaires, waiting in the wings to plunder what's left of our profitable trade. Let's see, for instance, how long it takes for "Scotch whisky" to lose its regional status. Sadly, Johnson has very little to sell off because the last right wing government sold our Gas, Electricity and Water utilities, BT, rail services, bus services, technology services (selling the family silver said Harold Macmillan) so I guess he has to look elsewhere. It was revealed this week that UK patient data has been sold to US pharmaceutical companies. Whatever would they want that rolleyes.gif I also think that a return to conflict in Ireland is inevitable.

Meanwhile, if Corbyn and Swinson have the good sense to realise they are out of their depth and "move on", there may be a chance of a more credible opposition in 5 years time. Although I suspect the prospective government have plans to change the rules on party funding and membership making life more difficult opposition parties.

So there we have it, the rich will get richer and guess who will pay for it.

My only hope is that the SNP get the kind of support they need to fend off the Westminster thugs (and I'm sorry about those in England who will have no choice but to live with it)


Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 10:40am

(In response to the above)

If you couldn't get your Christmas wish, Ash, would you rather the current UK remained in the EU or Scotland left both unions?

Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 11:05am

Or to put it another way (if the board will let me) Ash,

to avoid your worst case scenario of ending up stuck both in (the UK) and out (of the EU), would you rather stay fully in or go fully out of both; would you rather continue the old fight within the status quo or take it outside the EU as an independent Scotland???

Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 02:21pm

Of course, as we can see, anyone staying on message won't contemplate defeat. The simplest of answers can be the hardest. But if Ash's tale of woe materialises and Boris begins his Brexit, then the leader of the SNP will have this stark and difficult choice.

Will she continue to obstruct Brexit or go with the flow and use it to engineer independence. The former is the more hopefull shortcut to Remaining, the latter is the more difficult detour back to the EU.

A vote for the Lib Dems is the surest way to return another Remain Parliament.

Posted by: ashfield 10th Dec 2019, 02:40pm

You are rather letting your imagination run wild Kem. Get yourself onto Katya Adler's Twitter feed to get a reasoned explanation of why Johnson is telling us yet more porkies about his so called oven ready Brexit deal. It's better than a fictitious poke in a Tory aides eye by a labour supporter outside a hospital reported by "respected" BBC and ITV journos rolleyes.gif

Posted by: ashfield 10th Dec 2019, 03:34pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Dec 2019, 10:40am) *
(In response to the above)

If you couldn't get your Christmas wish, Ash, would you rather the current UK remained in the EU or Scotland left both unions?


Many years ago there was a motorway service station that offered a range of breakfasts on their menu. You could only buy them as described on their menu, nothing could be taken out, nothing could be added in and there was hell to pay if you asked for one without bacon or another with extra toast. They got so much bad press that it was forced into change to allow customers a choice of menu items.

You seem to see the world as the fixed menu with no room for deviation. My politics are more pragmatic although my socialist principles are a huge influence on how I vote (which is why the Tories will never, ever, get mine). Right now, I believe voting SNP is not only best for Scotland, but best for the future of Scotland. Do I think they are perfect, nope, but I trust them more that any other party right now.


Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 04:09pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 10th Dec 2019, 03:34pm) *
Many years ago there was a motorway service station that offered a range of breakfasts on their menu. You could only buy them as described on their menu, nothing could be taken out, nothing could be added in and there was hell to pay if you asked for one without bacon or another with extra toast. They got so much bad press that it was forced into change to allow customers a choice of menu items.

Can't you try to imagine that your usual breakfast is off the menu - what would you have instead? By the sounds of it, you'd starve.

Posted by: ashfield 10th Dec 2019, 04:12pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Dec 2019, 04:09pm) *
Can't you try to imagine that your usual breakfast is off the menu - what would you have instead? By the sounds of it, you'd starve.


Nope, I'd find something to eat but there are some things that are just not palatable wink.gif

Posted by: wombat 10th Dec 2019, 05:51pm

QUOTE (ashfield @ 10th Dec 2019, 04:12pm) *
Nope, I'd find something to eat but there are some things that are just not palatable wink.gif



rolleyes.gif

 

Posted by: taurus 10th Dec 2019, 07:39pm

I don`t understand one word of the election,who`s who,who`s good who`s bad,but i`m praying that the UK will get a good government,and bring the country back t normal.ASAP!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 10th Dec 2019, 07:39pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Dec 2019, 02:21pm) *
A vote for the Lib Dems is the surest way to return another Remain Parliament.


I imagined you with your underpants on your head with a pencil up each nostril when i read that Kem.

Was i close? laugh.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 10th Dec 2019, 07:40pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 10th Dec 2019, 07:39pm) *
I don`t understand one word of the election,who`s who,who`s good who`s bad,but i`m praying that the UK will get a good government,and bring the country back t normal.ASAP!


Can you tell me what "normal" was in relation to the UK Taurus?

Posted by: wombat 10th Dec 2019, 09:13pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 10th Dec 2019, 07:40pm) *
Can you tell me what "normal" was in relation to the UK Taurus?


tongue.gif ahm sayin nuffin rolleyes.gif

Posted by: caltonjock 10th Dec 2019, 10:14pm

Church leaders have emphasized that simply being attracted to someone of the same sex is not a sin and that God loves all of his children.

But those wishing to maintain full membership in the Church are required to commit to a life of celibacy.

The Mormon Church states unequivocally that marriage and sexual relations can only be between a man and a woman who promise complete loyalty to each other and that homosexuality is contrary to God’s plan for his children.

Members in same-sex marriages are considered to be apostates which is an excommunicable offense.


https://caltonjock.com/2017/06/05/stephen-kerr-mormon-church-leader-and-tory-mp-for-stirling-much-admired-by-his-former-lesbian-party-leader-ruth-davidson-his-church-teaches-that-identifying-as-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual-or-exp/

Should he be re-elected as the MP for Stirling? Made it last time by around 150 votes

Posted by: DannyH 10th Dec 2019, 10:40pm

I was watching the Scottish Party Leaders who were participating in a debate on the BBC tonight.
One of the answers given by the Scottish Labour Party Leader, Richard Leonard, confused me.

He said his Party would fight for a shorter working week, a minimum wage of 10 pounds an hour, and an end to zero hours contracts. This from a man who wants us to remain in the EU.

I am puzzled. Why does he have to fight to end zero hours contracts? I thought workers rights were supposed to be one of the benefits of being in the EU?

I guess the striking French railway workers thought their pensions were protected by the EU regulations.

What about the British women who have to work longer to be eligible for a State Pension? Yes I know it was a Tory Government that did that. But why did the EU allow it?

I think the EU is one of those organisations who are good at making up rules. Unfortunately they leave the implementation, and interpretation, of the rules to member states.

Volkswagen is a perfect example. They used modern digital technology to fake the emissions test results of their cars. They then exported their cars all over the globe, knowing they were polluting the environment. Did the EU have any mechanism in place to check up on Volkswagen? No it was the Americans who discovered that Volkswagen was cheating. We are talking thousands of cars here.

So please don’t try and convince me that they EU rules makes for a better life for us all. It is not the rules that matter. It is the resolve to implement them, that counts.

Danny

Posted by: Kemedian 10th Dec 2019, 11:40pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 10th Dec 2019, 07:39pm) *
I imagined you with your underpants on your head with a pencil up each nostril when i read that Kem.

Was i close? laugh.gif

What you imagine in your own free time is your business, Jagz. But I recommend another chat with your GP.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 11th Dec 2019, 06:21am

QUOTE (caltonjock @ 10th Dec 2019, 10:14pm) *
Should he be re-elected as the MP for Stirling? Made it last time by around 150 votes


No, the only reason being he's a Tory, i couldn't care less about his religious beliefs. wink.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 11th Dec 2019, 06:25am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 10th Dec 2019, 11:40pm) *
What you imagine in your own free time is your business, Jagz. But I recommend another chat with your GP.


Nah, my GP and i are strangers, though you may need some strong sedation on Friday morning. laugh.gif

Posted by: caltonjock 11th Dec 2019, 02:25pm


In reply to DannyH: Leonard really is a plonker. The Labour Party has a record of duplicity.



If zero-hours contracts are so bad, how come 68 Labour MPs Employed Staff on Them?

Ed Miliband blasted David Cameron and big business over zero-hours contracts – and pledged to stick up for ordinary workers who are being “exploited.” Speaking in Yorkshire, the Labour leader raged:

“Less than a week ago, you may have heard the Prime Minister say that he couldn’t live on a zero-hours contract. Well, I couldn’t live on a zero-hours contract either. I’ve got a simple principle – if it is not good enough for us, it’s not good enough for you and it’s not good enough for Britain. “That’s the way I will run our country. One rule for all.”

But there was one small problem for Ed. It was revealed by the pay and expenses watchdog IPSA that a large number of Labour MPs employed workers on “zero-hours” contracts.

A damning list of 68 (nearly a quarter of the Labour parliamentary party) included Ed Balls, Lucy Powell, Karen Buck, and Ian Murray.

Labour insist their MPs only use the casual contracts to hire interns or students on flexible deals.

But Steve Turner, Unite regional officer, said last year:

“Parliament passed the laws that are supposed to protect pay and conditions. “Our MPs ought to be upholding them, setting a high standard for employers.

https://caltonjock.com/2015/04/28/ian-murray-labour-mp-for-edinburgh-south-elected-on-a-parcel-of-lies-fully-supported-the-con-dem-governments-austerity-programme-penalisng-those-who-elected-him-read-his-record-in-office-it/

Posted by: Kemedian 11th Dec 2019, 03:59pm





Happy voting tomorrow everyone.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 11th Dec 2019, 07:20pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 11th Dec 2019, 03:59pm) *




Happy voting tomorrow everyone.



I know i will be happy, and you can be too Kem if you vote for the third largest party at Westminster, and the only party who have consistently opposed Brexit, and are the only party who can stop Brexit.

For once let your head rule your heart. wink.gif

Posted by: caltonjock 12th Dec 2019, 04:33pm

The equal pay policy commitment is most certainly yet another Labour party joke, to be pulled on Scottish workers by the very people they elect, the Unions, to protect their rights at work.

In Glasgow, women involved in the pre-2007 pay claims recall how the GMB union and the Labour Party council pressurized them into accepting low settlements by offering them cheques for a few thousand pounds just before Christmas so long as they signed quickly. Many signed.

But many more held out against the injustice and badly judged advice from their Unions and took their cases to another source of advice. Namely, Action 4 Equality – Scotland managed by Solicitor Stefan Cross.

In doing so they had to wait longer but received far greater settlement sums. Not only did Cross take on Glasgow District Council, but he also sued the unions for failing to properly represent their female members, forcing them to up their game.

In so doing, he made himself hugely unpopular and many still regard him as an ambulance-chaser who got rich off the back of driving English councils to the brink of disaster.

To the women, however, he is a hero, which explains why Cross retained 80 percent of the claimants. “I will have to give him 10 percent of the payout, but he deserves it,” one woman tells me. “He stuck with us when the unions couldn’t be bothered.”




https://caltonjock.com/2019/12/12/in-the-minds-of-the-labour-party-in-scotland-women-count-for-nowt-women-would-be-well-advised-to-remember-these-events-before-voting/

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Dec 2019, 05:33pm

QUOTE (caltonjock @ 12th Dec 2019, 04:33pm) *
In Glasgow, women involved in the pre-2007 pay claims recall how the GMB union and the Labour Party council pressurized them into accepting low settlements by offering them cheques for a few thousand pounds just before Christmas so long as they signed quickly. Many signed.


And let's not forget that one of the GMB union representatives advising the women to accept low settlements to save the council money was none other than the current Labour party in Scotland branch manager Tricky Dicky Leonard.

Shameful, but at least the new SNP council got the women the money they deserved. yes.gif

Posted by: carmella 12th Dec 2019, 09:22pm

I’m looking forward to the sky news coverage of the results as always. I will enjoy it even more because I like John Berkow!

Posted by: Kemedian 12th Dec 2019, 09:43pm

Will Sturgeon get her wish...

a Tory majority?



... Looks like it unsure.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 12th Dec 2019, 09:49pm

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 12th Dec 2019, 09:43pm) *
Will Sturgeon get her wish...

a Tory majority?



... Looks like it unsure.gif



Stop trying to blame the SNP for the way your fellow Brits vote Kem.

Independence is the only way we'll get rid of Tory rule.

Posted by: carmella 12th Dec 2019, 09:53pm

Just realised I spelled the former Speaker’s surname wrong, Bercow it should be, don’t know what I was thinking about!

Posted by: Kemedian 12th Dec 2019, 10:47pm

Recent footage leaked from Labour HQ...


Posted by: carmella 13th Dec 2019, 06:10am

Well the worst results as predicted were for Labour. To succeed in future they will have to up their game and listen to the people instead of thinking they still have stronghold constituencies as they did on days gone by. Jeremy Corbyn has seen the errors, and has indicated that he should stand down as leader.

Nicola Sturgeon in my opinion deserved to win a further new 13 seats because she worked hard, and was the best all round campaigner. That being said I still have to check if she won my area.

Politics is never dull!

Posted by: Kemedian 13th Dec 2019, 08:07am

The stars have aligned.

PM Johnson and FM Sturgeon will now consecutively lead Scotland out of the EU and the UK.

The price of this folly will forever be on their heads. The public have followed and swallowed their campaigns, like lemmings off a cliff.

I'm happy for Carmella and Jagz, for they are beginning to realise these longheld political fantasies.

As an opponent who has grown to like his rivals, and as their axes hew and scatter their leaderless foes, I submit smiling wryly on my way.

To the Station I went, now to the Cosmodrome I go. After one final brief visit to the Kremlin to pass on my congratulations I turn the corner, to catch my flight.


Posted by: JAGZ1876 13th Dec 2019, 10:17am

QUOTE (Kemedian @ 13th Dec 2019, 08:07am) *
PM Johnson and FM Sturgeon will now consecutively lead Scotland out of the EU and the UK.

The price of this folly will forever be on their heads. The public have followed and swallowed their campaigns, like lemmings off a cliff.

I'm happy for Carmella and Jagz, for they are beginning to realise these longheld political fantasies.


You're the one with the "longheld political fantasies" Kem, your're the dreamer of a happy clappy united Kingdom that never has existed in the first place, your fellow Brits South of the border have diffrent political priorities to you, and for you to claim their right to decide their own future as "folly" shows out of touch you really are, you have followed your Great Leader and swallowed her campaign like a lemming off a cliff, thankfully the good voters of East Dunbartonshire have rejected her brand of nationalism. yes.gif

Posted by: ashfield 13th Dec 2019, 11:00am

Well, it all turned out pretty much as expected (although the size of the majority is a wee surprise). Most interesting statistic (from Prof Curtis) was the size of vote for Brexit supporting parties was 47%. I'll leave the maths with you wink.gif

Where will we be going now, let's see what kind of cabinet Johnson puts together. My guess is a swing to an ultra-light wing agenda and the truth about a post Brexit Britain with eventually dawn on the electorate. I think there are challenging times ahead for the occupants of the good ship UK in the coming months and years.


Posted by: DannyH 13th Dec 2019, 11:14am

QUOTE (ashfield @ 13th Dec 2019, 11:00am) *
Well, it all turned out pretty much as expected (although the size of the majority is a wee surprise). Most interesting statistic (from Prof Curtis) was the size of vote for Brexit supporting parties was 47%. I'll leave the maths with you ;)

Where will we be going now, let's see what kind of cabinet Johnson puts together. My guess is a swing to an ultra-light wing agenda and the truth about a post Brexit Britain with eventually dawn on the electorate. I think there are challenging times ahead for the occupants of the good ship UK in the coming months and years.

Hi Ashfield

Do you know if the 47% included Labour? If it does then his statistic is wrong. Labour was indecisive.
They were going to have a ‘People’s vote’, as I recall. So the people voted, saving us all another long period of indecision.

Danny

Posted by: ashfield 13th Dec 2019, 02:47pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 13th Dec 2019, 11:14am) *
Hi Ashfield

Do you know if the 47% included Labour? If it does then his statistic is wrong. Labour was indecisive.
They were going to have a ‘People’s vote’, as I recall. So the people voted, saving us all another long period of indecision.

Danny


I don't know Danny, you would need to ask Prof Curtis but he seems to know his stuff.

You're right, the people have voted saving a long period of indecision, to be replaced by a long period of hard times for a lot of people instead (IMHO of course)

Posted by: Kemedian 13th Dec 2019, 09:07pm


"After you."

Posted by: caltonjock 13th Dec 2019, 10:37pm


Alex Rowley Sacked by New Labour Party Bosses in London

He was elected to the post of General Secretary of the Labour Party in Scotland in May 1998 and held the post until May 1999 when after outlining his vision for the future growth of the party in Scotland he expressed a view that having modernised Scotland’s political institutions and introduced a Scottish Parliament, the party needed to change its structure including proposals giving the Labour Party in Scotland freedom from London control.

All hell broke loose and he was summoned to Millbank in London, where he was told the party had nowhere for him in its future planning.

He was then invited to resign from his post as General Secretary of the Scottish Labour party a decision which provoked great anger in Scotland.


https://caltonjock.com/2019/12/13/the-london-controlled-labour-party-in-scotland-really-is-a-dead-parrot-scotland-needs-to-form-its-own-labour-party-led-by-alex-rowley-fully-supporting-scottish-independence-no-time-for-ditheri/

Posted by: DannyH 14th Dec 2019, 09:40pm

Kemedian, I have to say that of all the ‘posters’ on the political forums, you are the one who has disappointed me most.

In your post #1138 on the 24th of June 2016 you said,

“I argued that the UK should remain in order to have our say in future reform and I still value membership, but that is no longer an option for me because I value democracy more”.

Now in post #157 in the General Election forum, you say,
“The price of this folly will be forever on our heads. The public have followed and swallowed their campaigns, like lemmings off a cliff”.

So it seems to me that your true understanding of democracy is, it really only applies when the majority agree with you. Otherwise they are lemmings. They don’t have your intelligence if they don’t.

Danny


Posted by: carmella 14th Dec 2019, 10:25pm

I must say in common with so many people, I will be glad when it’s all over. Even if we leave the EU in a few weeks’ time, it will still take years to complete.

Posted by: ashfield 15th Dec 2019, 11:01am

QUOTE (caltonjock @ 13th Dec 2019, 10:37pm) *
Alex Rowley Sacked by New Labour Party Bosses in London

He was elected to the post of General Secretary of the Labour Party in Scotland in May 1998 and held the post until May 1999 when after outlining his vision for the future growth of the party in Scotland he expressed a view that having modernised Scotland’s political institutions and introduced a Scottish Parliament, the party needed to change its structure including proposals giving the Labour Party in Scotland freedom from London control.

All hell broke loose and he was summoned to Millbank in London, where he was told the party had nowhere for him in its future planning.

He was then invited to resign from his post as General Secretary of the Scottish Labour party a decision which provoked great anger in Scotland.


https://caltonjock.com/2019/12/13/the-london-controlled-labour-party-in-scotland-really-is-a-dead-parrot-scotland-needs-to-form-its-own-labour-party-led-by-alex-rowley-fully-supporting-scottish-independence-no-time-for-ditheri/


Interesting Caltonjock, meanwhile Corbyn has said he takes his share of the blame for the defeat. That's very big of him huh.gif

Having voted for the party over many years I'm still interested (and perhaps a bit angry) in how it's come to this. I guess , in recent times, Blair lost trust but the "handover" to Brown was a disaster. Brown then managed to shed even more support, no explanation required. The major disasters were the elections of Milliband and Corbyn. There are serious doubts about who, in membership terms, were doing the voting but the Unions need to shoulder a hugh slice of responsibility for their part in the process. Their policies were ok but they've not figured out that the election is no longer about politics but a popularity contest instead. How else could you explain a lying, sexist, homophobe, who leads a party that has screwed the least able, being re-elected?

Thankfully we have a chance in Scotland to escape from all that though yes.gif

Posted by: DannyH 15th Dec 2019, 01:16pm

[quote name='ashfield' post='3741629' date='15th Dec 2019, 11:01am']Interesting Caltonjock, meanwhile Corbyn has said he takes his share of the blame for the defeat. That's very big of him :huh:

Having voted for the party over many years I'm still interested (and perhaps a bit angry) in how it's come to this. I guess , in recent times, Blair lost trust but the "handover" to Brown was a disaster. Brown then managed to shed even more support, no explanation required. The major disasters were the elections of Milliband and Corbyn. There are serious doubts about who, in membership terms, were doing the voting but the Unions need to shoulder a hugh slice of responsibility for their part in the process. Their policies were ok but they've not figured out that the election is no longer about politics but a popularity contest instead. How else could you explain a lying, sexist, homophobe, who leads a party that has screwed the least able, being re-elected?

Thankfully we have a chance in Scotland to escape from all that though :yes:[/

Hi Ashfield


Ashfield, like you I voted Labour over many years. From my perspective, the decline of Labour started with the decline in manufacturing across the UK. We have politicians who have no idea what it is like to live in working class areas. People like the Benns and the Kinnocks come from families who have never had contact with the people they represent. They pass the baton from one generation to the next, with none of them having had any experience of what it is like to actually having to find employment which will hold the family together.

With digital technology now taking over the world, and with it the ever increasing wealth and power of China, the opportunities for employment in other than service industries in the UK is diminishing.

In my opinion unless politicians of all the UK political Parties wake up to the reality of what has happened to manufacturing throughout the UK, then we are on a downward spiral.

We also have to face the reality that we as consumers are creating unemployment. More and more people are shopping online. Amazon must have a significant share of consumer spending on products which have not been produced in the UK.

Within the next couple of years, those of us who still go to the local supermarket will be going into a large building, which is only staffed by one or two persons because of digital technology.

Will Trade Unions exist if all the workers are robots?

Danny

Posted by: taurus 16th Dec 2019, 11:10am

i like your post Danny,the decline in our quality of life began with the removal of manufacturing to the Asian countries.in this country there hasn`t been apprenticeships for many years,no need for them ,for where would they work once they had completed them. I know that for a fact for my husband was a foreman in industry for years. He protested loudly about this,for at one time he had about a dozen apprentices working with him. It`s so sad to walk through the shops,(not the grocers),and see hardly any staff,with no customers,they are not needed. I feel very guilty when I buy online,I know I`m doing someone out of a job,but the sad fact is,it`s easier then trudging round all the shops looking for something in vain,when there it is on the computer. Last week our oven broke down and my husband spent a whole morning ringing every shop he could think of to buy a new one ,the same model,not one big store had them in stock. is it any wonder online has taken off so well.

Posted by: DannyH 16th Dec 2019, 05:16pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 16th Dec 2019, 11:10am) *
i like your post Danny,the decline in our quality of life began with the removal of manufacturing to the Asian countries.in this country there hasn`t been apprenticeships for many years,no need for them ,for where would they work once they had completed them. I know that for a fact for my husband was a foreman in industry for years. He protested loudly about this,for at one time he had about a dozen apprentices working with him. It`s so sad to walk through the shops,(not the grocers),and see hardly any staff,with no customers,they are not needed. I feel very guilty when I buy online,I know I`m doing someone out of a job,but the sad fact is,it`s easier then trudging round all the shops looking for something in vain,when there it is on the computer. Last week our oven broke down and my husband spent a whole morning ringing every shop he could think of to buy a new one ,the same model,not one big store had them in stock. is it any wonder online has taken off so well.

Thank you for the understanding response Taurus. It is good to know that there are still come people around, who remember the days when we made ou own products.

Your story about the cooker is very similar to what happened to me just a few months ago. We couldn’t find an identical replacement cooker for ours, in any of the shops. Eventually we did obtain a cooker which fitted nicely into the space occupied by the old one. The replacement cooker was made in the Far East.

There is a problem with it. The grill pan is dangerous. When you remove the grill, loaded with hot food, the grill comes away from the handle! Luckily we had held on to the old grill pan.

I wrote to the company based in England which is ‘the parent’ company, complaining about the safety issue. They replied that I had been given the wrong grill pan, so sent me a replacement. It was identical to the one causing the problem.

I went to the local Fire Station, to inform them that in my opinion that there could be a number of house fires caused, if this model was sold in large numbers. I gave them a demonstration by loading the grill pan with raw meat, then lifting it off their desk. The contents and the grill pan fell to the floor. I was left standing with the grill pan handle.

The two fire officers burst out laughing. One of them said, “That’s the way they make them nowadays. We have got one like that too. We just lift the hot grill with a towel”

Changed days. There was a time when quality of the product mattered.

Just a wee change of subject, again off topic. Was it you who used to post on the topic of where you lived in Glasgow? I have a funny feeling you said you lived in Vaila street, in Cadder when you were a young girl. If so, I seem to remember telling you that my parents lived in Vaila Street just around the corner from you.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: wombat 16th Dec 2019, 06:44pm

smile.gif why dont you open a thread on WHITE GOODS danny laugh.gif

i;m sure there are a lot of FANS on here laugh.gif

Posted by: wombat 16th Dec 2019, 06:53pm

laugh.gif

 

Posted by: taurus 16th Dec 2019, 07:26pm

no Danny,I was born in the Calton,just before the war started,then moved to Bridgeton at the end of the war.

Posted by: DannyH 16th Dec 2019, 08:42pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 16th Dec 2019, 07:26pm) *
no Danny,I was born in the Calton,just before the war started,then moved to Bridgeton at the end of the war.


Thanks Taurus for the prompt reply.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: carmella 16th Dec 2019, 10:09pm

It’s hard to imagine that there are any poor people in China, yet there still are, but there are just as many wealthy ones. No wonder, because it disgusts me that everything we buy from plastics to nuts and bolts, and home wares, are “made in China”.

I stopped buying makeup or skincare brands, both well known and not so well known, that are sold in China, because if it is sold in China it is tested on animals.


Posted by: taurus 17th Dec 2019, 07:27pm

oh I know this is off the thread but what the hell. It`s nearly impossible to buy fish caught in Australia,so I was delighted to find in the Woolies frozen section a packet of AUSTRALIAN ,and in big print on the packet,whiting fillets. Yummy,we soon adopted them ,then,deleted !,so I rang the company who supplied them,and discoverd,caught in Australia,sent to China to get filleted and all the rest then back to our shops. The man said to have them all done in this country would cost us 100 dollars a kilo,and they got sent to China and back,9 dollars the packet,which could do 2 days. I pulled out all the fish in the freezer and found all came from China.End of my fish dealings with Woolies. I buy lovely trout in Aldi,"Denmark",but I`m scared to ask where else it`s been in the world before it comes to their freezer.


Posted by: JAGZ1876 17th Dec 2019, 07:41pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 17th Dec 2019, 07:27pm) *
oh I know this is off the thread but what the hell. It`s nearly impossible to buy fish caught in Australia



Don't worry about going off topic, Danny will probably sleeping anyway, can i ask you why in a huge island nation like Australia it's nearly impossible to catch fish caught in Australia Taurus?

Posted by: DannyH 17th Dec 2019, 10:07pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 16th Dec 2019, 06:44pm) *
:) why dont you open a thread on WHITE GOODS danny :lol:

i;m sure there are a lot of FANS on here :lol:

I think a thread on white goods would be justified. In the news tonight, a report that 500,000 washing machines have been recalled. This was after about 80 of these machines had caught fire.

Danny

Posted by: taurus 17th Dec 2019, 11:56pm

I just told you Jagz,the man in the fish place said it all comes down to money,and a cheap labour force in Asia.Money is the root of all evil. who said that ?, a genius anyway whoever he was.

Posted by: taurus 18th Dec 2019, 12:00am

the Samsung washing machines are notorious here for going on fire. The days for having an appliance for the length of your married life,is long gone,throw away society in everything now.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 09:28am

QUOTE (taurus @ 17th Dec 2019, 11:56pm) *
I just told you Jagz,the man in the fish place said it all comes down to money,and a cheap labour force in Asia.Money is the root of all evil. who said that ?, a genius anyway whoever he was.


It never answered my question Taurus, but if the man in the fish shop said it then that'll have to do i suppose, and i can't say that i've heard that saying before let alone who said it, but there is a similar quote in the bible that "the love of money is the root of all evil".

Posted by: DannyH 18th Dec 2019, 10:31am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 18th Dec 2019, 09:28am) *
It never answered my question Taurus, but if the man in the fish shop said it then that'll have to do i suppose, and i can't say that i've heard that saying before let alone who said it, but there is a similar quote in the bible that "the love of money is the root of all evil".

Jagz, there is an old song, “Money Is The Root Of All Evil”. You never heard that before?

You have this habit of telling people they haven’t answered your question. That is all you seem to do.


Danny


Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 11:49am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 10:31am) *
Jagz, there is an old song, “Money Is The Root Of All Evil”. You never heard that before?

You have this habit of telling people they haven’t answered your question. That is all you seem to do.


Danny


Can't say i have heard it Danny, it couldn't have been a big hit.

And i only say my question hasn't been answered when it hasn't been answered.

Posted by: DannyH 18th Dec 2019, 04:01pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 18th Dec 2019, 11:49am) *
Can't say i have heard it Danny, it couldn't have been a big hit.

And i only say my question hasn't been answered when it hasn't been answered.

Actually it was. The Andrew Sisters released their recording in 1946. It was performed by other artists right through to 1960. Then it was recorded by another’s artiste in 2009.

I can only shake my head at your closing sentence.


Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 07:35pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 04:01pm) *
Actually it was. The Andrew Sisters released their recording in 1946. It was performed by other artists right through to 1960. Then it was recorded by another’s artiste in 2009.

I can only shake my head at your closing sentence.


Danny

So you agree it wasn't a saying, it was a song, i liked the Andrews Sisters in their army uniforms singing Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy, when women were women. smile.gif

I'm worrying about you with all this head shaking Danny, you should get that checked out. wink.gif

Posted by: taurus 18th Dec 2019, 07:53pm

Dear God ,when will it end !! I`m sorry i even mentioned money is the root of all evil,even that is cause for an argument. I didnt quote the bible, that`s not my forte,I remembered the old song from hearing it on the wireless as a kid,no idea it came from the bible,but true anyway, everything in life comes down to money,a lot of people get a lot of it,and many many more don`t.That`s life.

Posted by: wombat 18th Dec 2019, 08:25pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 18th Dec 2019, 08:53pm) *
everything in life comes down to money.


sad.gif strange philosophy you have taurus,money is a mere commodity.

rolleyes.gif aint it ?

Posted by: DannyH 18th Dec 2019, 08:39pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 18th Dec 2019, 07:53pm) *
Dear God ,when will it end !! I`m sorry i even mentioned money is the root of all evil,even that is cause for an argument. I didnt quote the bible, that`s not my forte,I remembered the old song from hearing it on the wireless as a kid,no idea it came from the bible,but true anyway, everything in life comes down to money,a lot of people get a lot of it,and many many more don`t.That`s life.

Taurus, I am sure you must feel like me by now. Why are we bothering? The Three Amigos have taken over this website.

Danny

Posted by: wombat 18th Dec 2019, 08:53pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 09:39pm) *
Taurus, I am sure you must feel like me by now. Why are we bothering? The Three Amigos have taken over this website.

Danny


so moneys not a commodity then danny ? boy tongue.gif

Posted by: DannyH 18th Dec 2019, 08:59pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 18th Dec 2019, 07:35pm) *
So you agree it wasn't a saying, it was a song, i liked the Andrews Sisters in their army uniforms singing Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy, when women were women. :)

I'm worrying about you with all this head shaking Danny, you should get that checked out. ;)

Jagz for God’s sake grow up. You and your other two Amigos are destroying what was at one time a great website for exchanging views on different issues.

Are you expecting me to respond to your childish comment, it wasn’t a saying it was a song. Are you so thick to understand that many songs were inspired by sayings! You say you liked the Andrew Sisters but you never heard of ‘Money is the Root of all Evil’.

Sadly many of the original members of this forum have died. It is a pity that this forum has been destroyed by political issues. One of the reasons for this is, that what was intended to be a forum for Glasgow memories, is now past its sell by date. The younger generations, quite understandably, have different memories of Glasgow than we few remaining older ones. The younger ones are all on Social Media.

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 09:20pm

QUOTE (taurus @ 18th Dec 2019, 07:53pm) *
Dear God ,when will it end !! I`m sorry i even mentioned money is the root of all evil,even that is cause for an argument. I didnt quote the bible, that`s not my forte,I remembered the old song from hearing it on the wireless as a kid,no idea it came from the bible


Don't be sorry Taurus, you're not causing an arguement, you just got your songs and your sayings mixed up, you were quoting a song that you thought was a saying, and it wasn't mentioned in the bible so don't worry about it, we all make mistakes, just be thankful that it's me and not Danny who will pull people up for making the slightest of mistakes.

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 09:30pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 08:39pm) *
Taurus, I am sure you must feel like me by now. Why are we bothering? The Three Amigos have taken over this website.

Danny

You, DJ, Carmella and Zascot must be the Three Musketeers then, so which one of you is D'Artagnan, come on now Danny, you started it, tell us? yes.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 09:45pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 18th Dec 2019, 08:25pm) *
sad.gif strange philosophy you have taurus,money is a mere commodity.

rolleyes.gif aint it ?


Well i can't go down to the local shop and buy a pint of milk or a loaf of bread without using Taurus's "Root of all evil".

Damn those local shopkeepers. wink.gif

Posted by: DannyH 18th Dec 2019, 10:04pm

Taurus, please give up. The Loonies have taken over the asylum. They think they are so smart, but actually they are a sad trio. In real life, the accountant Bilbo would have run a mile in his younger days if the self confessed Glasgow scruff from the slums, Wombat had come near him. He would have had second thoughts about Jagz too. A wide boy from Castlemilk, no way!

Let’s face it this forum is dead.

Regards

Danny

Posted by: bilbo.s 18th Dec 2019, 10:28pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 11:04pm) *
Taurus, please give up. The Loonies have taken over the asylum. They think they are so smart, but actually they are a sad trio. In real life, the accountant Bilbo would have run a mile in his younger days if the self confessed Glasgow scruff from the slums, Wombat had come near him. He would have had second thoughts about Jagz too. A wide boy from Castlemilk, no way!

Let’s face it this forum is dead.

Regards

Danny



Danny Boy, I resent your assumption that , being an accountant, I had no friends from the slums, or even Castlemilk. As is your wont, you are completely wrong as I had a wide spectrum of valued friends who hailed from various places, including the aforementioned. Not content with your false accusations of mendacity and cowardice, you now have the gall to add snobbery to the list of charges. You are an evil old man. If this forum is dead, it is due to you and your ilk!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 18th Dec 2019, 11:10pm

QUOTE (DannyH @ 18th Dec 2019, 10:04pm) *
the accountant Bilbo would have run a mile in his younger days if the self confessed Glasgow scruff from the slums, Wombat had come near him. He would have had second thoughts about Jagz too. A wide boy from Castlemilk, no way!

Regards

Danny


Sorry Danny, i'm not quite sure what the your point is, are you saying that bilbo who is from the East End is too good for a Sou Side boy like me and i have no idea which part of the city Wombat is originally from?

But you want us to believe that Boris "Burlington Eton Boy" Johnson and all his Tory chums wouldn't run a mile, never mind in there younger days from a oink scruff like you? yes.gif

Posted by: DannyH 19th Dec 2019, 09:14pm

QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 18th Dec 2019, 10:28pm) *
Danny Boy, I resent your assumption that , being an accountant, I had no friends from the slums, or even Castlemilk. As is your wont, you are completely wrong as I had a wide spectrum of valued friends who hailed from various places, including the aforementioned. Not content with your false accusations of mendacity and cowardice, you now have the gall to add snobbery to the list of charges. You are an evil old man. If this forum is dead, it is due to you and your ilk!

Bilbo, I was just giving you a taste of your own medicine. You have been making accusations about me and some other contributors to this forum, such as being racists etc, and posting many numerous inflammatory garbage from other sources.

I notice that you use the term ‘accountant’ when talking about yourself.
I went on to a website, www.icew.com

It states that by law, anyone can call themselves an accountant. Unqualified accountants are subject to the same laws as a chartered accountant.

I had a couple of acquaintances who said their occupation was, “an accountant”. Then the truth came out they both were employed, by different employers as accountants doing support work for chartered accountants.

Now why I am going down this road is that I have also known a couple of chartered accountants. I cannot imagine that such professional people would behave the way you have on the political topics on this forum.

True professional people don’t lower themselves to behave the way you have on here. So are you a chartered accountant? This is not a trick question. If you say you are a chartered accountant, I will not question that.

Danny


Posted by: DannyH 19th Dec 2019, 11:35pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 18th Dec 2019, 11:10pm) *
Sorry Danny, i'm not quite sure what the your point is, are you saying that bilbo who is from the East End is too good for a Sou Side boy like me and i have no idea which part of the city Wombat is originally from?

But you want us to believe that Boris "Burlington Eton Boy" Johnson and all his Tory chums wouldn't run a mile, never mind in there younger days from a oink scruff like you? :yes:

No Jagz, I am saying anyone with any intelligence would steer clear of you and Wombat. Doesn’t matter where they are from.

You seem to know a lot about other people on this forum, so it surprises me that you are not aware that Wombat wrote about the horrible childhood he had in Glasgow. It has left its mark on him.

I came from Garscube Road in Glasgow, not in the same class as areas such as Bearsden, Kelvinside, or Clarkston. My Dad was a lamplighter. My mother was a grocers assistant, rising to manager of one of three shops owned by the same family. She prepared the accounts for the three shops, for the accountants. I was brought up to show respect to other people.
Something sadly lacking from your two pals Bilbo and Wombat.

And there you go again about Tory politicians. Get a life!

Danny

Posted by: JAGZ1876 20th Dec 2019, 09:19am

QUOTE (DannyH @ 19th Dec 2019, 11:35pm) *
No Jagz, I am saying anyone with any intelligence would steer clear of you and Wombat. Doesn’t matter where they are from.

You seem to know a lot about other people on this forum, so it surprises me that you are not aware that Wombat wrote about the horrible childhood he had in Glasgow. It has left its mark on him.

I was brought up to show respect to other people.


And there you go again about Tory politicians. Get a life!

Danny


More personal insults, so much for being brought up to show respect to other people.

I probably know less about the other GG members than you do Danny, and i never said Wombat wasn't from Glasgow, i said " i have no idea which part of the city Wombat is originally from".

Pull the other one.

I have a life Danny, and why shouldn't i mention "Tory Politicians" in an election thread that you started?

Posted by: zascot 20th Dec 2019, 11:47am

Is there a date by which we have to reapply to be members of this Nursery school next year huh.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 20th Dec 2019, 12:51pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 20th Dec 2019, 11:47am) *
Is there a date by which we have to reapply to be members of this Nursery school next year huh.gif

Ask Danny. huh.gif

Posted by: zascot 20th Dec 2019, 01:44pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 20th Dec 2019, 01:51pm) *
Ask Danny. huh.gif

biggrin.gif

Posted by: carmella 21st Dec 2019, 02:39pm

Zascot

This much I can say with a good degree of confidence. Whatever anyone does, regarding next year's membership - LoL hell don't ask me, because I have a list, and given current members who actively post - there will be nay Glesga Guide Forum as we wanst kent it tae be


Danny

Our Best man was a Chartered Accountant, as is my cousin. Both of them have not suffered from living on a miserly pension, or had to move away to eek out their miserly pension. Quite the contrary, both made sure many years ago they and their spouses, could retire living comfortably on the pension they had built.

In fact, wouldn't you think that if anyone could ensure they had a good pension, it would be either an Actuary for sure or a Chartered Accountant. Sorry, but I'm having a wee laugh here.

I am lucky because I have an excellent pension, on top of which I have the state pension, so am no suffrin!

Posted by: JAGZ1876 21st Dec 2019, 10:44pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 21st Dec 2019, 02:39pm) *
I am lucky because I have an excellent pension, on top of which I have the state pension, so am no suffrin!


If we didn't already know that you were a Tory then we certainly do now Carmella. laugh.gif

Posted by: zascot 22nd Dec 2019, 12:34pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Dec 2019, 10:44pm) *
If we didn't already know that you were a Tory then we certainly do now Carmella. laugh.gif

Jagz if you want to retire in comfort join the Tories I`m sure Carmella would second your application. biggrin.gif You might even try to convince Wo no forget that. biggrin.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 22nd Dec 2019, 01:20pm

QUOTE (zascot @ 22nd Dec 2019, 12:34pm) *
Jagz if you want to retire in comfort join the Tories I`m sure Carmella would second your application. biggrin.gif You might even try to convince Wo no forget that. biggrin.gif


I can't afford to retire yet Zascot, plus the Tories have increased the time i'll receive my state pension by another year, though not as bad as what the WASPI women have had to endure (Mrs Jagz included) by having five years of their hard earned pensions stolen by the Tories.

And now our children have got to look forward to working until they're 75 before the receive their pensions, so no i certainly won't be joining the Unionists party.

I know from the sunny climate of South Africa that Johnson and his clown troupe make it look like everything in the UK is just one big laugh, but i can assure you that it is no laughing matter to those of us who support social reform.

Posted by: wombat 22nd Dec 2019, 06:29pm

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 22nd Dec 2019, 01:20pm) *
I know from the sunny climate of South Africa that Johnson and his clown troupe make it look like everything in the UK is just one big laugh, but i can assure you that it is no laughing matter to those of us who support social reform.


rolleyes.gif it looks the same from oz JAGZ,social reform in the uk ?hows that gonna happen ,when the whole structure is snobbery/ racism on steroids

WTF is a working class tory?

Posted by: JAGZ1876 22nd Dec 2019, 08:16pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 22nd Dec 2019, 06:29pm) *
rolleyes.gif it looks the same from oz JAGZ,social reform in the uk ?hows that gonna happen ,when the whole structure is snobbery/ racism on steroids

WTF is a working class tory?

Well we can't save or force England and Wales to change Wombat, but we can save Scotland and we'd better do it soon before it's too late. yes.gif

Posted by: zascot 23rd Dec 2019, 05:33am

To all of you


Posted by: JAGZ1876 23rd Dec 2019, 08:27am

QUOTE (zascot @ 23rd Dec 2019, 05:33am) *
To all of you


Merry Xmas to you and yours too Zascot. 🎅

Posted by: carmella 26th Dec 2019, 12:49am

QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Dec 2019, 10:44pm) *
If we didn't already know that you were a Tory then we certainly do now Carmella. laugh.gif

laugh.gif

Posted by: carmella 26th Dec 2019, 12:50am

QUOTE (zascot @ 22nd Dec 2019, 12:34pm) *
Jagz if you want to retire in comfort join the Tories I`m sure Carmella would second your application. biggrin.gif You might even try to convince Wo no forget that. biggrin.gif

thumbup.gif

Posted by: carmella 26th Dec 2019, 01:00am

QUOTE (zascot @ 22nd Dec 2019, 12:34pm) *
Jagz if you want to retire in comfort join the Tories I`m sure Carmella would second your application. biggrin.gif You might even try to convince Wo no forget that. biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
thumbup.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 26th Dec 2019, 08:56am

QUOTE (carmella @ 26th Dec 2019, 12:50am) *
thumbup.gif

In keeping with the festive spirit Merry Xmas to you and yours Carmella, i hope Santa was good to you🎅.

Posted by: carmella 26th Dec 2019, 09:49pm

Hope you and your family had a lovely Christmas.

Let’s hope we all have a better year to come.

Posted by: wombat 27th Dec 2019, 07:19pm

QUOTE (carmella @ 26th Dec 2019, 10:49pm) *
Let’s hope we all have a better year to come.


rolleyes.gif erm! BORIS carmella laugh.gif

Posted by: JAGZ1876 28th Dec 2019, 10:36am

QUOTE (wombat @ 27th Dec 2019, 07:19pm) *
rolleyes.gif erm! BORIS carmella laugh.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: carmella 29th Dec 2019, 03:59pm

QUOTE (wombat @ 27th Dec 2019, 07:19pm) *
rolleyes.gif erm! BORIS carmella laugh.gif

thumbup.gif

Posted by: ashfield 29th Dec 2019, 04:07pm

Don't know why there's all the fuss about Boris going to Mustique huh.gif

I'm more bothered about him coming back wink.gif