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> French Ban On Muslim Headscarves, What do you think?
August26
post 11th Sep 2004, 08:53pm
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Melody:
Great poem by Robert Burns, but I wonder what he and our founding Fathers would think if they were living in today's world.

August


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hubert
post 11th Sep 2004, 09:25pm
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Outstanding Melody, not only noo can I not say it better than Catherine, a canny say it better than Rabbie Burns.
And also Melody, who I know doesnt need further education classes, she is a natural! wub.gif
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Catherine
post 12th Sep 2004, 03:17am
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Thanks Hubert, the cheques in the mail laugh.gif
{Seriously, thank you xx}

Melody, "I'll take their hand and thank my God for their help" , what a wonderful sentence, take a bow.

August, I think Rabbie would embrace tolerance, try and understand why things today are obviously needin some oil somewhere {oops pardon that pun}...to think his work is the age it is, yet how appropriate it is for every generation.


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August26
post 12th Sep 2004, 04:35am
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I think all you Brittish women should go out and purchase Muslin Headscarves, read today's Sunday Herald, Al-Muhajiroun would like to see the Islamic Flag over # 10 Downing Street...............
wake up, it's the fastest growing religion in the world today, controlled by a bunch of terrorists.

Burns wrote the poem in a Christian world, I can imagine what he would write in today's world, I doubt very much it would be" A Man's A Man For A' That"

August


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steakpie
post 12th Sep 2004, 11:50am
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If imposing a ban on headscarves is seen as a denial of human rights, what about making women wear them in the first place? Just another man-made rule. Women already have more than adequate head-covering. it is called hair and was designed by some entity a lot smarter than any so-called prophet.

Is islam afraid of hair, or only women's hair? (or any other attribute of women?) Many of the restrictions against women suggest a phobia. Mysogynists?

And just how much right do muslim women really have to decide to wear the headscarf or not? No women who walked uncovered in a restrictive muslim country would go unmolested by these "devout" men.

So, I wonder, do they believe that god made a mistake by creating women with a full head of hair? Are they jealous of it? What if women shaved their god-given hair to the scalp? Would that suffice? If the problem is that it awakes men's lust, then the problem is surely with the men. Shouldn't they be the ones to be blinkered. Maybe a nose ring and chain would help control their lusts,or at least contain it for the appropriate time(chosen by the women,so don't hold your breath, men).

As I said before, this denial or the right to wear a scard,(doesn't that sund really stupid?) will only make muslim women even more isolated. The isolation itself will produce more restricted thinking which will be passed on to their children. What we need is an announcement that women can wear or not wear a scarf regardless of what any man says.

I, too remember having to wear a head covering to go to church. If I had lost it on the way, I would've missed mass rather than enter the church uncovered. And if I had died on the way home, having missed mass on Sunday, my religion taught me that I would've gone straight to hell, as missing mass was a mortal sin, punishable by eternal damnation. The junk we believe when we have it spoon fed into us sticks with us until we get out from under it. If these muslim girls are restricted any more, they will be the breeding ground of the next generation of taliban and al quaeda.

Just a Sunday morning rant against the stupid rules of religion. I'm really going to hell, ain't I? Look at the rule and see the man behind it. I am certain that no benign creator made any of these rules. If he/she/it is benign at all, then just being good to each other is all he wants.

Here endeth the rant.
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Catherine
post 12th Sep 2004, 04:53pm
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Here you August, yer wummin here's wide awake ah'll let you know....and Rabbie wisnae exactly flavour of the month in the Christian society when he was alive so I still say he'd write that piece with the same thoughts in mind. biggrin.gif

I hear what both yourself and Steakpie are saying here, I'm not ignorant of what is going on altogether, I do have a clue believe it or not.
I still stand by my belief that France is wrong to bring in this law for the reasons I stated earlier.

I know there are terrorists hiding within the Muslim faith, there are terrorists hiding everywhere in many faiths, look at the so called IRA, are you asking me to believe that all Irish Catholics are terrorists, does that make all catholics worldwide terrorists? Presuming you'll answer "of course not ," then why should I be thinking exactly that about those in the Muslim faith?

I agree Steakpie about many of the man made rules made in religion, but what I feel is wrong about this is the CHOICE of those who value this headress to be part of their being has been taken away.

I notice in I think it was Heathers post, that the banning also includes large crucifix's...which leads one to believe that small ones are acceptable.
Where is the fairness in that, because there's no much can be done about the size of yer heid is there?

My wee gran used to say "there's more things brought by prayer than this world dreams of" , sadly someone in the terrorist business must have heard it through the ages an aw, because many have hidden within religions in order to murder instead of love their fellow man.


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Tom
post 12th Sep 2004, 06:47pm
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I'm sure the poor girls would not choose wear this kind of dress to school,can you imagine beeing the only one in the class dressed like this especialy with all these prblems in the middle east.
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Heather
post 12th Sep 2004, 08:42pm
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No Catherine, I never mentioned anything about the wearing of a crucifix. Don't worry about it all is forgiven. wink.gif

As far as I can remember the rule applies to the wearing of all religious symbols. This rule does not apply to nor enforced in Private or Catholic Schools.

As I have already said I cannot understand why the wearing of a headscarf should be a problem, especially as it is not a religious symbol. As Catherine said it is more a tradition than anything else.

What a stushie over the wearing of a headscarf. I think there is more to this than what we are being told.


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Catherine
post 12th Sep 2004, 11:37pm
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Sorry Heather, it was whyteinche's post about large crucifix's, sorry to you too Whyteinch biggrin.gif

Tom, Personally I hear ye cos I can't stand anything on my head....but that's no the point here, the point is there now is no choice whether you wear it through traditional respect to your religion or whether you jist like to wear a wee headress.
If you have worn a headress throughout your life, either through tradition to religion or not.... the choice is now gone regardless of your personal being.

I think you're right Heather, there is way more to this than meets the eye, and at the end of the day whatever it is, whether we ever know it or not, part of it comes down to pure Racism.

Hubert mentioned that wee story earlier, it zoned in and helped me articulate to myself exactly why I've felt unease about this new law from the start.

ANY kind of zealot is a danger I believe, and somehow the fact this law has been passed in France does not surprise me.
Where in the past has France been anything other than vaguely tolerant of it's 600,000 Jewish populace...all of a sudden they're 'worried'?
Well ..how convenient!


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August26
post 13th Sep 2004, 01:42am
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Catherine:
I'm happy too hear your wide awake, now here's something I didn't know, we were at the bookstore today with the Grandkids, at the time of the Crusades in the 11th century, the Crusaders went to the Holy Land and killed the Muslims, I didn't get much of a chance to read the book, like I sad the kids were with us, but I'm sure before I can get back there someone on the board will enlighten me, so Catherine my friend lets hear it......................
I'm waiting. time for my history lesson.
Those Islamic radicals have no respect for women, their aim is one world wide Islamic state.
So instead of the red hat society, we will have either the black or white headscarf society. ohmy.gif

August


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Catherine
post 13th Sep 2004, 02:01am
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Nae bother Heather, ye no me, ah'll wing it onywherr.

On second thoughts, I'll start a new topic about the Crusades and we could go from there before the Off Topic Polis arrive...{an rightly so Martin, no complainin, no complainin biggrin.gif }


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August26
post 13th Sep 2004, 03:17am
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Listen to the chatter above, com'n Catherine we know your the GG police in disguise cool.gif

August


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Melody
post 13th Sep 2004, 06:17am
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We all know there are many and sickening reasons for decisions like these, regarding the wearing of religious symbols.
These kind of steps from Governments are making racists and fools of us all. Think how far we have come from the sixties regarding being far better educated and tolerant. We have taken a million steps back since then! The reason greed for oil!
Now we'll be told to be afraid of headscarves? What are we coming to? Proves the power of the media. Divide and conquer. Capitalism used to sugar the pill with how safe we were and housed and clean and able to keep ourselves financially. It shows it's real face these days when the sugar is removed.
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carmella
post 13th Sep 2004, 07:29am
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Tom - You’re misguided at best to say that the girls who wear the headscarves feel bad or awkward in their classrooms. France is very used to the ways and customs of diverse communities, particularly the Muslims. Children who are not Muslims in the classrooms to which you refer would think nothing of sitting next to another pupil dressed this way. There is the largest Muslim community in France of all the other European countries over five million in fact.

The French Education authorities have stated that any girl turning up at school still wearing the headscarves will be, very possibly, expelled. I read recently where a schoolgirl living close to the border between France and Belgium felt so strongly about the wearing of this, that she has opted to begin this year’s school term after the summer break at a school in Belgium – doubtless she will be in the minority.

All of the rules recently imposed by the French Government aimed at all religious symbols, Jewish Skull caps, large crosses and the wearing of Muslim headscarves, when one considers that they also recently stated, despite the banning of these items, they wished pupils from different religious backgrounds to become more fully integrated and with a greater understanding of the various religions is, to me, a rather naïve argument, and smacks of double standards. I think it is totally without regard, what pupils wear on their heads or around their necks as to whether they integrate or not. But, the French Government will not be moved on this; therefore the ban is now permanenent.

I have read many articles on this subject and as has been stated previously, it certainly reads to me that it is permissible to wear a tiny cross or crucifix around one’s neck – so size therefore seems to be an issue – does this make sense to any of you, since we are talking about religious differences and cultures? Surely, if this were the case, the wearing of any religious item should be banned!

Well this is France, we’re talking about – the French, as ever, will go their own way in many things. I somehow doubt that their recent ban will affect the rest of Europe or spread throughout Europe – it will be interesting to see what, if any, the backlash to this ban is – after all it is in its early days!

If the French aim to achieve religious integration solely by this action, which I believe was backed by the majority of French people, then I wish them luck – but I hae ma doots, as they say!


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August26
post 13th Sep 2004, 09:12pm
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Carmella:
thanks for the explanation, I knew you could do it, now you have to go to the other thread and tell us about the crusades

August


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