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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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JAGZ1876
post 21st Mar 2018, 09:13pm
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Finally Labour and (most) of the LibDems in Scotland come to their senses.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1610378...ve_Brexit_Bill/
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DannyH
post 22nd Mar 2018, 05:55pm
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Jagz,

I am trying hard to stop posting on this forum, because it has become a waste of time. Time that I am running out of, and I have more important things to attend to. I feel that a good parting shot would be to respond to one of your previous posts, in which you said the following:

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"The EU has also provided social protection for all people in Scotland, guaranteeing minimum working conditions and the right to not be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race, nationality or age, do you honestly think the Tories will keep these"?
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So I have to ask you where you were, when under a Labour Government, and under EU law, some people in this country worked and are still working on zero hours contracts.

You must have missed the widespread publicity given to the fact that women are at last standing up against being paid less than men for doing the same job. In fact one of the worst examples of this has been the Glasgow City Council. Hardly a Tory ruled organisation is it? It is going to cost the Council (actually the Council Tax payers) millions of pounds sterling, in back payment to female employees. This has come about, not because of EU intervention, but because of the female employees themselves.

Now getting on to age discrimination. For someone who believes our younger generations will lose out because of Brexit, your defence of the EU staggers me. It makes me believe that you can't distinguish reality from propaganda. The very thing you accuse people like me being guilty of.

So this is my interpretation of what is going on in this country right now, with regard to younger generations.

When I was 16, I started an engineering apprenticeship. At the end of five years, I became a qualified engineering tradesman.

During all of that time, many of my generation were not so fortunate, for many different reasons.

The boys became semi-skilled, or did labouring work.

Many of the girls worked in clothing factories or worked as shop assistants.
Very very few, in my district, or other working class areas went to University. It was night school for us.

Fast forward, and engineering apprenticeships have more or less died out.

What has become the norm now is Modern Apprenticeships. Another name for cheap labour. The difference being that when I finished my apprenticeship, I was given employment.

Now children are being taken on as modern apprentices, in retail outlets for a miserly wage, then given the boot when they reach minimum wage age, and a new intake of youngsters take over.

The ironic thing is, that when my generation worked in shops, the work was more skilled, because there was no bar code technology. It was a pencil behind the ear technology, which required arithmetical skills.

On a sadder note. I have noticed a substantial rise in the number of homeless people, living rough in Glasgow. Here is one of the reasons for this, as far as I am concerned. THE BIG ISSUE.

When this magazine first appeared its purpose was to give homeless people, and people down on their luck, an opportunity to improve their lives. Having worked in prisons, I noticed a few of the young men I had met there, making a positive recovery thanks to the Big Issue.

Fast forward to today. Just go round the corner from under the Central Station Bridge, you will not see any local young people selling the BIG ISUUE. The Godfathers have moved in and taken over the spots that the locals used to have. In my area all of the local lads and lassies have been replaced
by non-Scots. Some of the locals had become well known to local people and struck up a camaraderie
with them.

Ask the people living rough what they think of EU laws.

Your reponse to me will probably be, that it is not the EU's fault that its laws have not been implemented, it's the Tories.

By the way, I noticed one of your grumps was that it was the Tories who set up the Brexit referendum, and you hate David Cameron for going ahead with this. What you have never mentioned is that he thought the electorate would have voted to stay in the EU The working class people of the North East of England saw him off, much to the consternation of the wealthy South East of England.

If the UK had voted to stay in the EU, you and Bilbo would have argued on this forum, that democracy had won the day. You know what? I would have agreed with you. Just like I accepted the result of the Scottish Independence referendum, even although I voted for Independence. Your attitude to that was, we were lied to. Funny, the people who lied to us then, are the same people who wanted us to stay in the EU! Who can you trust nowadays, eh?

Danny




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JAGZ1876
post 22nd Mar 2018, 07:18pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 22nd Mar 2018, 05:55pm) *
Jagz,

I noticed one of your grumps was that it was the Tories who set up the Brexit referendum, and you hate David Cameron for going ahead with this.

Danny


Nah Danny, i hated Cameron long before that. laugh.gif
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bilbo.s
post 24th Mar 2018, 08:42am
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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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prince21
post 24th Mar 2018, 10:33am
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 17th Mar 2018, 09:57pm) *
Hardly a great start to your arguement by insulting my intelligence (or rather lack of it) Danny.

I like to think i do make meaningful contributions to this forum Danny, i'm dissapointed you think i don't but you are entitled to your opinion, however i disagree that has anything to do with the number of people participating diminishing.

Danny, Brexit was always about politics, and the reason i "keep harping on about the Tories" is simple, they are the party who held the referendum, they are the one's who are in government and they are the ones who have no idea what they're doing.

Have either the SNP or the Labour party said they wouldn't "uphold the democratic decision of the UK electorate"?

When have i said i don't accept the Brexit vote was a UK referendum?

You said you find it highly offensive that me and some others on here have taken a high moral stance when it comes to future generations of our children.

Yet in your post you said, "The Brexit mess as you call it, has come about because of the lack of democracy. You and others like you, fail to see that future generations of this country have no future prospects of working in the manufacturing industries because this sector has been and continues to be taken away from the UK." unsure.gif

I leave " derogatory remarks" to others, but to answer your question, Scotland staying in the EU gives us access to the world’s largest economy and trading area, why leave and then pay more to export to the same countries we already trade freely with?

The EU has also provided social protection for all people in Scotland, guaranteeing minimum working conditions and the right to not be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race, nationality or age, do you honestly think the Tories will keep these?

Scotland will independent long before 2050 so that is a moot point as far as i'm concerned.

I could,nt agree more Scotland has to stay in the EU what.s happening is madness we all need each other in order to give our young people a better future
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wombat
post 24th Mar 2018, 06:23pm
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 24th Mar 2018, 09:42am) *

Attached Image


Bilbo.s' your foto looks like 1960s glesga weans yes.gif

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the mighty only appear mighty
because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

wombat thit grates oan yie.
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bilbo.s
post 24th Mar 2018, 10:48pm
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Ah widnae know coz ah wiz a 40s Glesga wean but posh wi' it!
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Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't like you, and just because I don't like you doesn't mean I disagree with you.
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prince21
post 24th Mar 2018, 10:50pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 21st Mar 2018, 09:13pm) *
Finally Labour and (most) of the LibDems in Scotland come to their senses.


http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1610378...ve_Brexit_Bill/

Doe,s anyone think the United Kingdom will ever elect a Socialist Prime Minister? I for one have always voted for a persons policies and only that. I don,t care what culture they come from their sexuality their religion. I,m not right wing or left wing I,m just a socialist who believes that people should be treated equally and fairly. I,t as simple as that is this to much to ask for? I suppose I,m just a dreamer in believing that we all need each other no matter what background we come from. I better not hold my breath here,s hoping one day we have a socialist Prime Minister who puts the poorest people first.
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bilbo.s
post 26th Mar 2018, 07:27am
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Of course, every Brexit-related story in the press online brings out the leavers, often with aggressive comments, one of the most common of which is "remoaners don't like democracy".


"'Moaners' are the bastions of democracy and the enemies of dictatorships.

In a democracy, when a vote is over, people who disagree with it are not obliged to shut up. Nor should they.

The first thing tyrants and dictators do is to censor the press and gag opinions that don't agree with them. They try to silence the critical backlash which is so essential in a democracy and so absent in dictatorships. Our right to disagree and resist is sacred. It is the very essence of our democracy.

Democracy is the right to continue to make the case for what the minority feels is right, even against the opinion of a majority.

Democracy is the right to speak up, to oppose, to resist and to protest. Take that right away, and you are left with a dictatorship.

That is why there are opposition parties, a shadow cabinet, and opposition politicians that hold sitting governments to account.

If a Labour government is elected, do Conservatives become Labourites and accept Labour policies like sheep? If a Conservative Party is elected, do Labourites become Conservatives and accept Conservative policies like sheep? No.

David Davis was right to say that a democracy that cannot change its mind is no longer a democracy. And Nigel Farage was right when he said that a 48-52 referendum result would be unfinished business and require another referendum.


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DannyH
post 26th Mar 2018, 10:48am
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QUOTE (bilbo.s @ 26th Mar 2018, 08:27am) *
Of course, every Brexit-related story in the press online brings out the leavers, often with aggressive comments, one of the most common of which is "remoaners don't like democracy".


"'Moaners' are the bastions of democracy and the enemies of dictatorships.

In a democracy, when a vote is over, people who disagree with it are not obliged to shut up. Nor should they.

The first thing tyrants and dictators do is to censor the press and gag opinions that don't agree with them. They try to silence the critical backlash which is so essential in a democracy and so absent in dictatorships. Our right to disagree and resist is sacred. It is the very essence of our democracy.

Democracy is the right to continue to make the case for what the minority feels is right, even against the opinion of a majority.

Democracy is the right to speak up, to oppose, to resist and to protest. Take that right away, and you are left with a dictatorship.

That is why there are opposition parties, a shadow cabinet, and opposition politicians that hold sitting governments to account.

If a Labour government is elected, do Conservatives become Labourites and accept Labour policies like sheep? If a Conservative Party is elected, do Labourites become Conservatives and accept Conservative policies like sheep? No.

David Davis was right to say that a democracy that cannot change its mind is no longer a democracy. And Nigel Farage was right when he said that a 48-52 referendum result would be unfinished business and require another referendum.


Just back from Central Station in Glasgow.

Young man with Spanish guitar,and Spanish accent belting out

“Hail Catalonia’.

Danny Harris
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wombat
post 26th Mar 2018, 07:32pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 26th Mar 2018, 10:48am) *
Just back from Central Station in Glasgow.

Young man with Spanish guitar,and Spanish accent belting out

“Hail Catalonia’.

Danny Harris


rolleyes.gif cheeky bugger,he shood be beltin out "rule brittania" laugh.gif


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because YOU are on your knees.RISE UP.

wombat thit grates oan yie.
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JAGZ1876
post 27th Mar 2018, 08:44pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 26th Mar 2018, 11:48am) *
Just back from Central Station in Glasgow.

Young man with Spanish guitar,and Spanish accent belting out

“Hail Catalonia’.

Danny Harris


He must have been a Catalonian, was he any good Danny? biggrin.gif
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DannyH
post 28th Mar 2018, 01:59pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 27th Mar 2018, 09:44pm) *
He must have been a Catalonian, was he any good Danny? biggrin.gif

Jagz,

I am unwilling to say anything more about the young man in case it incriminates him.
It may have escaped your attention that arrest warrants have been issued by the Spanish, for the arrest of people involved with the Catalan Independence referendum.

One of them, a university professor, handed herself in today to the Edinburgh police. She could be given a prison sentence of up to 30 years, in Spain.

The Spanish government has told Scottish politicians, who are protesting, to get lost, on the grounds that this is a matter for the Spanish judiciary, not politicians.

Ties in nicely with Bilbo’s post regarding democracy and the minority, and how they are treated.

Danny
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JAGZ1876
post 28th Mar 2018, 11:18pm
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 28th Mar 2018, 02:59pm) *
Jagz,

I am unwilling to say anything more about the young man in case it incriminates him.
It may have escaped your attention that arrest warrants have been issued by the Spanish, for the arrest of people involved with the Catalan Independence referendum.

One of them, a university professor, handed herself in today to the Edinburgh police. She could be given a prison sentence of up to 30 years, in Spain.

The Spanish government has told Scottish politicians, who are protesting, to get lost, on the grounds that this is a matter for the Spanish judiciary, not politicians.

Ties in nicely with Bilbo’s post regarding democracy and the minority, and how they are treated.

Danny


Then i withdraw my question Danny, i only wanted to know if he was any good? Tsk... laugh.gif
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prince21
post 30th Mar 2018, 10:44am
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 29th Mar 2018, 12:18am) *
Then i withdraw my question Danny, i only wanted to know if he was any good? Tsk... laugh.gif

Can Brexit fix Britain? There,s no way i can see it happen. As a remainer i hope I,m wrong. One thing i do know for sure is the few will not lose out. It,s the many i feel sorry for. I can,t see much of a future for them.
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