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> Is The Union Already Lost?, Referendum: 18th September 2014
DannyH
post 29th Jan 2014, 11:31pm
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QUOTE (Talisman @ 21st Jan 2014, 01:34am) *
You may be confusing the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Nothern Ireland with a country you refer to as "Britain" The United Kingdom was Scotland and England. Nothern Ireland as a part of that Union did not come into being until the "partition" of Ireland in the 1920s Nothern Ireland never existed as a democratic part of the United Kingdom as most its inhabitants were never empowered by a democratic vote until most recent years. As for Scotland; when did they ever (since the 30s) vote for anything other than a vast majority of Labour politicians, who when they took their seats in the democratic kingdom of Greater London, promptly dismissed all thoughts of a Scotland from their minds. Democracy begins and ends in Westminster.


Hello Talisman

I note you state that the United Kingdom was Scotland and England. During my National Service in the 1950's, some of my comrades were Welshmen. Could you explain why they were serving in the UK army? Were the Welsh considered to be outside of the United Kingdom, but eligible to fight on behalf of the United Kingdom?

Regards

Danny Harris
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*Talisman*
post 30th Jan 2014, 12:17am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Jan 2014, 11:48pm) *
Hello Talisman

I note you state that the United Kingdom was Scotland and England. During my National Service in the 1950's, some of my comrades were Welshmen. Could you explain why they were serving in the UK army? Were the Welsh considered to be outside of the United Kingdom, but eligible to fight on behalf of the United Kingdom?

Regards

Danny Harris


Danny, my understanding is that Wales has not existed as anything but part of England since the 13th century. Prior to that there was a brief period around 1245 when the Vatican recognised a principality of "North Wales" for a brief period. Wales is a geographical entity and was never a single sovereign country.
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JAGZ1876
post 30th Jan 2014, 08:34am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 29th Jan 2014, 11:48pm) *
Hello Talisman

I note you state that the United Kingdom was Scotland and England. During my National Service in the 1950's, some of my comrades were Welshmen. Could you explain why they were serving in the UK army? Were the Welsh considered to be outside of the United Kingdom, but eligible to fight on behalf of the United Kingdom?

Regards

Danny Harris


Hi Danny, i hope you don't mind me answering this, i am really surprised you didn't know this,

At the time of the Act of Union (1707) Wales had already been annexed by England and to the English Crown centuries before, that is why the first male of every English/British monarch take's the title "Prince of Wales", so Wales is not a Kingdom but a Principality.
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john.mcn
post 30th Jan 2014, 08:35am
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Wales was annexed by England and had no separate monarchy.


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angel
post 30th Jan 2014, 11:16am
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from Wikipedia ..

QUOTE
Since the Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542, which formally incorporated all of Wales within the Kingdom of England, there has been no geographical or constitutional basis for describing any of the territory of Wales as a principality, although the term has occasionally been used in an informal sense to describe the country, and in relation to the honorary title of Prince of Wales.


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DannyH
post 6th Feb 2014, 11:23pm
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QUOTE (JAGZ1876 @ 30th Jan 2014, 08:51am) *
Hi Danny, i hope you don't mind me answering this, i am really surprised you didn't know this,

At the time of the Act of Union (1707) Wales had already been annexed by England and to the English Crown centuries before, that is why the first male of every English/British monarch take's the title "Prince of Wales", so Wales is not a Kingdom but a Principality.


Hello again JAGZ

We seem to keep meeting up in different topics.

You are quite right to be surprised that I didn't know that Wales is a annex of England.

I will lay the blame on my Canadian school teachers, who insisted in teaching me Canadian history.
That's my excuse and I am sticking to it. Mind you, you didn't know Canada had been invaded by some Americans near Niagara Falls, did you? See, you didn't get Canadian history at school did you?

Al the best

Danny Harris
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JAGZ1876
post 7th Feb 2014, 08:08am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 6th Feb 2014, 11:40pm) *
See, you didn't get Canadian history at school did you?

Al the best

Danny Harris


I didn't get Scottish history at school either Danny angry.gif
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Dylan
post 7th Feb 2014, 09:01am
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I did.!

Primary and Secondary. ??????


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bilbo.s
post 7th Feb 2014, 09:05am
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QUOTE (Dylan @ 7th Feb 2014, 10:18am) *
I did.!

Primary and Secondary. ??????


Aye me too, but we're coffin dodgers, Dylan. That just shows how Scottish identity has been deliberately and systematically eroded since our schooldays. I was amazed to realize this, on another thread a while ago. It seemed that nobody under 60 had had any Scottish history taught.


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john.mcn
post 7th Feb 2014, 10:02am
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No Scottish history in my school and i took it right through secondary.


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bilbo.s
post 7th Feb 2014, 11:18am
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I can truthfully say that, in my day, the accent was quite heavily on Scottish history.


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john.mcn
post 7th Feb 2014, 12:27pm
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http://peterabell.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/v...save-union.html

QUOTE
To those intending to vote No I say, if you value the best of the old union, then think of how it will be put in jeopardy by failure to take this opportunity to forge anew the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK. Think how much better together we will be if we create a new union. A reformed association which preserves all that is desirable and effective about what has been developed over the years but places this in the context of a political relationship fit for our times and the future. A relationship that is strong, not in the facile sense subscribed to by British nationalists, but in the sense of being robust and durable. A relationship that respects the differences between nations while cherishing the social and cultural ties among people. A true partnership of equals.

All of this is possible. It requires only the goodwill and commonality of interest that already exists. And the confidence to vote Yes.


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*Tally Rand*
post 8th Feb 2014, 09:36am
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To my endless disappointment I studied history in Scotland up to H.S.C. From year one I was taught about everything from the French Revolution and its' historical context; the entity of the Empire of British India and the Mutiny (but not the justification for it on the part of the Indians.) The restoration of Charles II, who on account of being forced to add his seal or signature to the "Covenant on his coronation by the Covenanters in Scotland, held the Scots and their country in eternal contempt. (We were never taught that part of it.) It seems to me that our history was sanitised in what appears to me now to be a benign and condescending manner in order to avoid any semblance of national sentiment.
P.S. I am over 67.
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GG
post 27th Mar 2014, 08:22pm
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Looks like Kevin McKenna thinks that the Union is already lost, following "a lacklustre campaign against independence".

QUOTE
Scottish referendum: could they make it any easier for the Nats?

Is there any bribe or blandishment that the Tories will not use as the prospect of losing a quarter of their kingdom looms? In last week's budget, a sinister new low was reached by the Tories, brutish and un-British in its conception. It was an obvious response to recent polling on the independence referendum, which has consistently shown that working-class people are more likely to vote yes. It's the "let's just jolly well ensure that the blighters stay out of the polling booths on 18 September by enticing them into pubs and bingo halls" strategy.

There are occasions when the rest of us get to see what Britain looks like through the eyes of David Cameron and George Osborne. When they occur, they are delightful to behold and should be cherished. Thus last week we learned that, to David and George, Britain's less affluent neighbourhoods look like a painting by Hogarth. There they all are: the women spilling out of gin palaces, their children starving in their arms, their menfolk spending what remains of their benefits on a last slurp of ale and a squeeze from a dancing girl. It can only be a matter of time before tax relief can be obtained from keeping whippets and pigeons. ...

Full article here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...ts-independence

GG.


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tamhickey
post 29th Mar 2014, 07:55am
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When I think about the Independence debate, what springs to mind is not separaton or divorce from the other partner, rather it's more like a younger member of the family coming of age and deciding to make their own way in the world. They no longer want to exist on pocket money, but to move forward and advance themselves. the familial ties will never be broken though, as there is so much that binds them together by way of shared experience and history, though we will be more free to make new friendships and relationships with others. We will have learned from the mistakes of the past and will do as all the young do: planning a better future for ourselves. Yes, mistakes may well be made along the way, but they will be our mistakes to make and correct. This should upset nobody, for who, despite their worries doesn't wish the best to the youngster in the end? The initial threats of witholding any assistance soon dissipate when you see how determined, and how well planned the younger person is.

It's now becoming clear that the YES campaign are garnering more support, but should we win, we have to sit down and support our fellow Scots who disagree. We're all Jock Tampsons bairns, no matter who you support and we should all remember to accommodate and respect the views of others.
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