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> Uk Independence Referendum - Brexit, Yes or No on EU membership
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Dykejumper
post 24th Jan 2016, 01:14pm
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Sturgeon doesnt want a referendum in June, thinks it might confuse the electorate, obviously doesnt
have a high opinion of the public's intelligence. I dont think she has to worry as I doubt the legalities
could be passed for a June vote.Cameron might even opt for 2017 in the hope that something
[other than another 330000 migrants of course] turns up to help his stay in vote.

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JAGZ1876
post 24th Jan 2016, 06:33pm
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 24th Jan 2016, 01:22pm) *
Sturgeon doesnt want a referendum in June, thinks it might confuse the electorate, obviously doesnt
have a high opinion of the public's intelligence.


She doesn't think that at all, now be honest, you've just made that up, haven't you? yes.gif
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JAGZ1876
post 24th Jan 2016, 06:35pm
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QUOTE (flam @ 24th Jan 2016, 01:05pm) *
That is why Nicola is sitting on the fence making any excuse, she should come out right now and declare she wants to be 100% in staying in Europe, and just watch the SNP members drop like flies


You wish. laugh.gif
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Dykejumper
post 24th Jan 2016, 06:53pm
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Well Jagz go to the Andrew Marr show on BBC Iplayer and give me your biased assessment of what
she said, its around the 33 minute mark.
ps I note the SNP begging bowl is out so I trust you will be throwing in a few bob.
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JAGZ1876
post 25th Jan 2016, 02:40pm
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QUOTE (Dykejumper @ 24th Jan 2016, 07:01pm) *
Well Jagz go to the Andrew Marr show on BBC Iplayer and give me your biased assessment of what
she said, its around the 33 minute mark.
ps I note the SNP begging bowl is out so I trust you will be throwing in a few bob.


I didn't see the interview and have no time to trawl through videos so did she say she doesn't have a high opinion of the public's intelligence?

I've had a busy Weekend so i must have missed this, why have the SNP got their begging bowl out?
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john.mcn
post 25th Jan 2016, 07:22pm
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Andrew Mars interview with Nicola Sturgeon, EU discusiion around 4 minutes 40



--------------------
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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Kemedian
post 27th Jan 2016, 03:46pm
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 19th Jan 2016, 11:16pm) *
Bring it on, the closer it is to the mayhem going on in the EU the better.

Since when was it the British way to abandon Europe in time of need?

I'm reading a lot of conflicted views, from members on here who voted to leave the UK, now supporting the same sort of arguments in favour of remaining in the EU they recently fought against.

The level of interaction/ interference (depending on your viewpoint) between the EU and UK may not be equivalent to that of the Scottish and UK Parliaments, however due presently to the flowing of power in each Union the political situations are changing, such that the EU is growing and the UK is lessening in its influence over Scottish affairs.

The arguments in favour of Unionism are the same in both referendums, no matter the obvious attempts to disguise this by some GG members. THIS IS WHY the SNP and lots of its supporters can be seen and heard dancing a merry jig around the main issues and were against even having this debate in the first place.

It is quite laughable to read the same members on here, who passionately made the case in the previous referendum that the British Parliament was no good, now supporting its role within the EU. I seem to remember the old Yes campaign telling us that a new Scottish State would have no problem entering the EU following independence. Would this not still be the case, and wouldn't an 'out' vote trigger a second Indy ref???

It is my consistent argument that political union enhances the power of a parliament, because we are better together. Again I say to people, raise your gaze and see the benefits of being in the bigger picture and of having our say on matters otherwise entirely outwith our reach.

It is strongly argued elsewhere on here that actually Independence is a good thing and that the leaving nation's parliament stands to greatly benefit in so many ways. Yet many of those same voices are here seemingly in contradiction.

To my point of view, maintaining Scotland's link to both the UK and the EU is mutually beneficial. The same arguments work for me both times. Unlike John.mcn - whose arguments in these issues at least I find to be consistent - I do hope that we vote to support the EU where we can, because I believe the UK can! smile.gif
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ktv
post 27th Jan 2016, 04:05pm
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kem thats a load of rubbish im afraid.


the snp and members of the yes side always said they wanted to be an indy country in the eu, just like every other country in the eu.
under the uk system we cannot make our own internal policy without most of it being ok'd by westmonster. while most of the laws from the EU benefit the people here unlike vindictive laws imposed from london.

so instead of bemoaning what happened in a far far away referendum on this thread why dont you tell us why youl be voting yes instead of praising westminster at every approach like you did in the other thread.
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john.mcn
post 27th Jan 2016, 07:10pm
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QUOTE (Kemedian @ 27th Jan 2016, 03:54pm) *
Since when was it the British way to abandon Europe in time of need?



Might want to check the history books wink.gif


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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
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DannyH
post 28th Jan 2016, 12:00am
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Yes, start at 1945. We went to war in 1939 because Germany had invaded Poland. In 1945, having defeated the Germans, we turned our backs on Poland and left them at the mercy of the Russians. If you lived in the 'West' during that period, you were probably grateful that hositilities had ceased. I can't speak on behalf of the people who lived behind the 'Iron Curtain, but I would think that many of them would have wondered why they bothered resisting the Germans.

Millions of lives were lost in two World Wars against the Germans, but now we go cap in hand to plead with Angela Merkal to support the UK in getting a new deal.

Danny
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marydee
post 28th Jan 2016, 10:25am
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QUOTE (DannyH @ 28th Jan 2016, 12:08am) *
Yes, start at 1945. We went to war in 1939 because Germany had invaded Poland. In 1945, having defeated the Germans, we turned our backs on Poland and left them at the mercy of the Russians. If you lived in the 'West' during that period, you were probably grateful that hositilities had ceased. I can't speak on behalf of the people who lived behind the 'Iron Curtain, but I would think that many of them would have wondered why they bothered resisting the Germans.

Millions of lives were lost in two World Wars against the Germans, but now we go cap in hand to plead with Angela Merkal to support the UK in getting a new deal.

Danny

I think that says quite a lot about Britain since the war.
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Kemedian
post 28th Jan 2016, 10:26am
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QUOTE (john.mcn @ 27th Jan 2016, 07:18pm) *
Might want to check the history books wink.gif

Nein danke. Alle bücher verbrennen.

QUOTE (ktv @ 27th Jan 2016, 04:13pm) *
the snp and members of the yes side always said they wanted to be an indy country in the eu, just like every other country in the eu.

Why vote at all, ktv? For your part, to abstain could bring Brexit and a second Indyref one vote closer. By voting to remain, you are endorsing the role of the UK in the EU. yes.gif

QUOTE (ktv @ 27th Jan 2016, 04:13pm) *
under the uk system we cannot make our own internal policy without most of it being ok'd by westmonster. while most of the laws from the EU benefit the people here unlike vindictive laws imposed from london.

There's the contradiction in your argument.

Throughout the Indyref, the term 'Unionist' was used derogatively (and still is by some).

In both referendums, you want to make this about big bad Westminster. This time the UK is the nation proposing to become independent and this time you are backing the status quo, whereas last time you voted to leave both Unions.

QUOTE (ktv @ 27th Jan 2016, 04:13pm) *
so instead of bemoaning what happened in a far far away referendum on this thread why dont you tell us why youl be voting yes instead of praising westminster at every approach like you did in the other thread.

I bloody well wish it was far far far far far away, but the SNP has made sure it isn't by making the case for a second Indyref if Scotland votes differently. (Yesterday at PMQs, an SNP MP went on and on about the Indyref. She had to be politely asked by the Speaker to sit back down. So don't give me your crap. Nothing makes the SNP happier, and that shows no sign of ending.)

Let me remind you of the rather straightforward options at this referendum, ktv. There is one vote for EU integration or one vote for UK independence. This is not a repeat of the Indyref, so it's not about praising Westmonster or not as you put it. No-one knows how the UK would fare as an independent nation, besides I am voting to remain so it is the virtues of the EU that I am extolling.

EU Referendum
Remain: pro EU/ anti separation
Leave: anti EU/ pro separation

Yes, last time I was pro UK but that's not an option this time. My fellow Unionist, we are on the same side. There is a contradiction in your arguments, but I won't hold it against you. The promised land of increasing unity is getting closer every day. smile.gif
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flam
post 28th Jan 2016, 11:59am
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This is the scenario I personally see
(1) If the UK voters decide to leave the EU, then according to Nicola,Scotland will go for a new vote for Independence
(2) Scotland then win their Independence, only to be ruled by Brussels
(3) Therefore Scotland will have to take their quota,s of Migrants/Fishing and Farming regulations, and finally any migrant/Illegals coming through from Calais,will head towards Scotland with the wishes of Big Dave.,as he does not have to obey the rules and regulations of EU, so the final count of migrants ,Illegals call them what you want.will eventually put a large burden on the Scottish economy,no more so than the price of oil..
I would like to see those that voted SNP, ask themselves ,
do they go with Nicola Sturgeon,or do they go with Jim Sillars
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Betsy2009
post 28th Jan 2016, 12:17pm
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What if the majority of Scots vote to leave the EU? Will Nicola ignore that?
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Kemedian
post 28th Jan 2016, 12:44pm
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QUOTE (Betsy2009 @ 28th Jan 2016, 12:25pm) *
What if the majority of Scots vote to leave the EU? Will Nicola ignore that?

She ignored the way we voted last time, hence the EU ref is nothing more than a means to get her own way. This historic ref is not worth the bother in its own right, hence the arogance of the SNP position.

So, with her proven track record, yes I believe she would, Betsy.
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